IUCrazy2 Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Golfworm77 said: What are the rumors about Glass? And what did Brian Snow supposedly leak? I’m way behind. Just that he forced Miller to keep kids in the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said: North Carolina, fired Matt Doherty after 3 years. Replaced him with Roy William's and won I believe 2 National Championships since then. Kentucky, fired Billy Gillespie after 2 years and hired Calipari. Have been a fixture late into the NCAA tournament since then and have a National Title as well. Tennessee got Cuonzo Martin to resign and hired Barnes. He won 26 games un year 3 and has had them in the Top 5 for a significant portion of this year. There is a current example of not waiting and 2 examples of programs that at one time we were peers of who did not wait and it paid off in Championships. Doherty actually resigned (albeit under pressure) but Dean Smith saw that he was a bad fit from the first year. Martin also resigned under pressure, but if you look at their record under Barnes, the first 2 years weren't exactly stellar. I'll give you Gillispie, but the day Indiana University starts running the basketball program like Kentucky does is the day I find another team to root for. Maybe more interesting names for this particular discussion would be Krzyzewski, Wright, Boeheim, Donavan, and Howland... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Doherty actually resigned (albeit under pressure) but Dean Smith saw that he was a bad fit from the first year. Martin also resigned under pressure, but if you look at their record under Barnes, the first 2 years weren't exactly stellar. I'll give you Gillispie, but the day Indiana University starts running the basketball program like Kentucky does is the day I find another team to root for. Maybe more interesting names for this particular discussion would be Krzyzewski, Wright, Boeheim, Donavan, and Howland... Yes, we have all heard of those last guys...and everyone that brings them up overlooks the hundreds of counter examples to that small handful of guys...most of whom saw gradual improvement over the time they were building their program as opposed to an absolute collapse in the middle of their rebuild. Based on the majority of your examples we should see massive improvement next year, no? Usually those guys take off in year 3. I will give my expectation for next year, 20 wins and some semblance that the team knows what the heck they are doing out there on the floor. What is yours? Where do you think we should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Yes, we have all heard of those last guys...and everyone that brings them up overlooks the hundreds of counter examples to that small handful of guys...most of whom saw gradual improvement over the time they were building their program as opposed to an absolute collapse in the middle of their rebuild. Based on the majority of your examples we should see massive improvement next year, no? Usually those guys take off in year 3. Program history has to be taken into account, and that pares the field down considerably. So in my opinion, your "hundreds of counter examples" doesn't wash. Regardless of what anyone says to the contrary, IU is a Blueblood, so to make valid points it has to be from that point of reference. "Massive improvement" is defined as what? NCAA berth? Top 3 Big 10 regular season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 I believe Archie knows exactly what he needs for next year and will go get it. In forms of transfers or junior college. Just my feeling. I think Brooks will choose IU. We will be really good next year. I believe Smith and Green will leave the program. Just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said: The outcome of the game should not ruin your day but IU has a big problem on their hands when people do not care to watch or attend no matter the outcome. See Indiana Football and how lack of interest in that sport, because of historical results, hurts the entire athletic department when compared to the rest of the Big Ten. I have said this and others have before as well, without the extreme loyalty this fanbase has shown to this program the past 20 years, we are on par with Iowa. Shorten that timeframe up a bit more and we are on par with Northwestern and Penn State. You like to blame the fans for the state of the program quite a bit on this forum and the other, my question to you Scott is, what kind of players and coaches do you think Indiana is pulling in without the fans? What kind of media attention do we get? What kind of games do we get in the Big Ten/ACC challenge? The games that get eyeballs and ratings or the games against Georgia Tech that nobody but the biggest Hoops fans and the fans of those two programs are watching? I think most of us realize this is just entertainment, so when you narrow the conversation down and leave it only in that context, we are a TV program that had a strong run and now the writing and acting have fallen off a cliff. People are starting to turn to other programs and other entertainment. If you are a fan of the show and think there is more story to tell, do you want the writing to pick up ASAP or do you wait 2, 3, 4 more seasons to figure out if the current writers can hack it? Will you even have a program if you wait that long? In basketball context, we are on the verge of the longterm program being cancelled and having to start over with a pilot to see if we can get anyone's attention. The IU football program has been running pilots for almost 100 years with 1 programs that hit paydirt for a year and another that was pretty solid for about 8. It has been struggling to get viewers ever since. Patience is not always a virtue in these types of situations. Patience has not helped the football team as fans (what are left) have been patient their entire lives and that is for anyone alive today. They have NEVER had a consistently good program. Patience did not work out with Davis and it did not work out with Crean either. Meanwhile, programs that have shown to not be patient, are reaping the benefits. We are resting on the fact that we had a pretty good "writer" for our program 20+ years ago. Reruns only hold attention for so long. I have watched all but one game this year and that was due to the fact I took my son out for his birthday before going back to college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said: The outcome of the game should not ruin your day but IU has a big problem on their hands when people do not care to watch or attend no matter the outcome. See Indiana Football and how lack of interest in that sport, because of historical results, hurts the entire athletic department when compared to the rest of the Big Ten. I have said this and others have before as well, without the extreme loyalty this fanbase has shown to this program the past 20 years, we are on par with Iowa. Shorten that timeframe up a bit more and we are on par with Northwestern and Penn State. You like to blame the fans for the state of the program quite a bit on this forum and the other, my question to you Scott is, what kind of players and coaches do you think Indiana is pulling in without the fans? What kind of media attention do we get? What kind of games do we get in the Big Ten/ACC challenge? The games that get eyeballs and ratings or the games against Georgia Tech that nobody but the biggest Hoops fans and the fans of those two programs are watching? I think most of us realize this is just entertainment, so when you narrow the conversation down and leave it only in that context, we are a TV program that had a strong run and now the writing and acting have fallen off a cliff. People are starting to turn to other programs and other entertainment. If you are a fan of the show and think there is more story to tell, do you want the writing to pick up ASAP or do you wait 2, 3, 4 more seasons to figure out if the current writers can hack it? Will you even have a program if you wait that long? In basketball context, we are on the verge of the longterm program being cancelled and having to start over with a pilot to see if we can get anyone's attention. The IU football program has been running pilots for almost 100 years with 1 programs that hit paydirt for a year and another that was pretty solid for about 8. It has been struggling to get viewers ever since. Patience is not always a virtue in these types of situations. Patience has not helped the football team as fans (what are left) have been patient their entire lives and that is for anyone alive today. They have NEVER had a consistently good program. Patience did not work out with Davis and it did not work out with Crean either. Meanwhile, programs that have shown to not be patient, are reaping the benefits. We are resting on the fact that we had a pretty good "writer" for our program 20+ years ago. Reruns only hold attention for so long. You can't put blame on Archie what has happened the last 20 years so yes you need to have a little patience with him. He has not even been here two years so there is no way you should fire him after this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Care to cite examples here? The best organizations in sports are usually the most patient. Steelers and Cowboys of the 70's ad 80's Both Chuck Knoll and Tom Landry started off slowly but was not fired and ended up being HOF coaches. Since the late 60's the Steelers have had only 3 coaches and they stayed the path even in bad years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 Archie if he wants to survive at Indiana has to show big improvement next year. I really believe that. We can’t have another season like this! The team doesn’t have any pride but the fan base is very proud of IU basketball and will not stand for this. Fred Glass knows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said: Yes, we have all heard of those last guys...and everyone that brings them up overlooks the hundreds of counter examples to that small handful of guys...most of whom saw gradual improvement over the time they were building their program as opposed to an absolute collapse in the middle of their rebuild. Based on the majority of your examples we should see massive improvement next year, no? Usually those guys take off in year 3. I will give my expectation for next year, 20 wins and some semblance that the team knows what the heck they are doing out there on the floor. What is yours? Where do you think we should be? That is the point no one knows for sure who will work out or who won't but each coach deserves 4 years to sink or swim. Just because UK does something does not mean it was a correct thing to do or that IU should do the same thing because I don't ever want to be like UK when it comes to our basketball program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said: I will give my expectation for next year, 20 wins and some semblance that the team knows what the heck they are doing out there on the floor. What is yours? Where do you think we should be? Sorry, missed this part. Must be getting old... I'd say top 4 B10 finish and round of 32 would be enough for the majority to put away the torches and pitchforks. But that's also dependant on circumstances. People overlook what has happened injury wise to this team this year, and I think even now, with a full (save Hunter) roster we're still feeling the residual affects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Sorry, missed this part. Must be getting old... I'd say top 4 B10 finish and round of 32 would be enough for the majority to put away the torches and pitchforks. But that's also dependant on circumstances. People overlook what has happened injury wise to this team this year, and I think even now, with a full (save Hunter) roster we're still feeling the residual affects. Top 4 and a second round tournament would exceed my expectations for next year. That would he a resounding success given this year. Miller pulls that off and I will happily shut up and see what he can do over the following few years. My expectation for the first 4 years or so is continuous improvement and bulding toward regular tournament appearances. Then I expect to see us actually start advancing deep into the tournament. I am not someone who is expecting a Final Four every year but I absolutely do expect to be in the tournament 90+% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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