BADGERVOL Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 52 minutes ago, dgambill said: But being a fan gives us all the right to be critical?? Look it isn’t a good look I agree and likely the result of a frustrated parent...I mean as frustrated as a fan you are imagine if your kid was playing how much more frustrated you would be...he is 1000 x more invested than you...so he got upset and gave his opinion....I wouldn’t do it...sounds like you wouldn’t but I can understand it. I guarantee Justin’s dad cares more than anyone on this board his dang kid is out there getting his butt kicked all year...it’s gotta be hard on him to bite his tongue...when we can spout whatever we want whenever we want and get it off our chest. Put yourself in his shoes...he is probably taking losses twice as hard as you. He is watching his kid be miserable on a miserable team. So he has made 2 or 3 tweets that voiced his frustration...hard to blame him..and again he isn’t calling out any of Justin’s teammates by name. Well it won’t matter how I reply because you’ll just say since I’m not the parent of a highly touted athlete then I don’t understand. ironically I can relate in a very different way than athletics because I have a child with a gift that puts him much higher “rank wise” nationally then what smith was coming out of HS, and when he was in a situation that appeared to “limit his potential” we told him “sorry son, you aren’t always going to have the chance to get everything you OUGHT to get in life even if you are gifted and talented. That’s just called life.” guess I just parent differently. I don’t live through my kids talents and I’m more interested in how he’s prepared for real life and how he has to be humble, work hard, and follow the lead of people above him in a respectful way. i have ZERO patience for adults who act like kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said: I consider this a civil post so I’m going to reply in a civil tone. Even if Ed was in fact 100% correct and Archie is a rotten coach and is making grave mistakes left and right and preventing the team from being more successful, I still do not believe that it is even partially appropriate for him to go off on social media. Will parents do that today? Yes. And in everyone of those instances they are acting inappropriately. when someone has a problem with someone else they should go to that person. If that doesn’t work, then they can go to the AD. But truth is, it shouldn’t BE the parent at this age level. The parent should be teaching their young adult that a part of growing up is that THEY as the athlete need to go to their authority figure and then follow the proper chain of command. This is how life works...or should. Heck as a parent of a MS boy, my son came home ticked at a teacher and the first thing I asked him “Habe you gone to that teacher?” He said “No.” I said “then until you do you have two options...let it go, or go try to work it out. If you try that and can’t make it work then we’ll take the next step. Otherwise this discussion is over.” I further explained that when he has a job someday it won’t be tolerated for him to flame off to all his friends, get ticked on social media and try to create a mutiny against someone. That’s just going to get you fired. I hate helicopter parents it is one of my GREATEST pet peeves in life. The problem is this social media stuff happens everywhere. In college, in high school, in offseason, and heck even in middle school the problem is it’s the reality of today’s day and age. Is it right? Probably not. But it is reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said: I consider this a civil post so I’m going to reply in a civil tone. Even if Ed was in fact 100% correct and Archie is a rotten coach and is making grave mistakes left and right and preventing the team from being more successful, I still do not believe that it is even partially appropriate for him to go off on social media. Will parents do that today? Yes. And in everyone of those instances they are acting inappropriately. when someone has a problem with someone else they should go to that person. If that doesn’t work, then they can go to the AD. But truth is, it shouldn’t BE the parent at this age level. The parent should be teaching their young adult that a part of growing up is that THEY as the athlete need to go to their authority figure and then follow the proper chain of command. This is how life works...or should. Heck as a parent of a MS boy, my son came home ticked at a teacher and the first thing I asked him “Habe you gone to that teacher?” He said “No.” I said “then until you do you have two options...let it go, or go try to work it out. If you try that and can’t make it work then we’ll take the next step. Otherwise this discussion is over.” I further explained that when he has a job someday it won’t be tolerated for him to flame off to all his friends, get ticked on social media and try to create a mutiny against someone. That’s just going to get you fired. I hate helicopter parents it is one of my GREATEST pet peeves in life. You just said in a previous post coaches shouldn’t talk to parents...so how else is a parent to voice their displeasure? It’s not like this parent is going on the radio and doing interviews and airing dirty laundry and singling out kids and the coach etc. he literally makes like a two word post answering someone that yes he was frustrated but hardly a problem. You’ve never turned to the person next to you and complained about something? Well in the new world of social media that was what he did...he simply agreed with another poster...and he took it down if I’m not mistaken so he had a moment of frustration and then took it back. It isn’t like this guy is causing a firestorm. Only people like you and me with too much time on our hands even know about this...and I’ve got better things so I’m letting it go. Everyone has their opinion...to me it’s inconsequential it’s meaningless...I wouldn’t do it and things used to be different but I hardly think parents have any real influence on a team...he is a scapegoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, DC2345 said: The problem is this social media stuff happens everywhere. In college, in high school, in offseason, and heck even in middle school the problem is it’s the reality of today’s day and age. Is it right? Probably not. But it is reality. It is...and I know HS’s at least are discussing what that issue is and how it’s going to be addressed in the future. I think parents are in for a rude awakening because I believe we are a few years or less away from them being held accountable for what they say and do on social media just as students are too. Can’t wait for some rules to be established that can be backed up with law. I’m a big free speech guy but I’m also a responsibility person too. You should have the right to flame out on social media and institutions should have their own rights to protect their coaches, programs, and schools. It appears a balance is going to be met sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, dgambill said: You just said in a previous post coaches shouldn’t talk to parents...so how else is a parent to voice their displeasure? It’s not like this parent is going on the radio and doing interviews and airing dirty laundry and singling out kids and the coach etc. he literally makes like a two word post answering someone that yes he was frustrated but hardly a problem. You’ve never turned to the person next to you and complained about something? Well in the new world of social media that was what he did...he simply agreed with another poster...and he took it down if I’m not mistaken so he had a moment of frustration and then took it back. It isn’t like this guy is causing a firestorm. Only people like you and me with too much time on our hands even know about this...and I’ve got better things so I’m letting it go. Everyone has their opinion...to me it’s inconsequential it’s meaningless...I wouldn’t do it and things used to be different but I hardly think parents have any real influence on a team...he is a scapegoat. If you don’t get a pay raise you feel you deserve does your dad flame out on social media about it complaining about your boss? No. Because you are a man and a big boy. Quite honestly my dad never would do anything like this when I was in college because I was raised to be a man by then. This is your life now son, I’m here to bounce ideas off of but you fight your own battles. the problem is in the fact that a dad thinks his kid needs defending when he’s in college. Justin should be appalled and embarrassed that his daddy is acting like this to begin with. If you feel your son needs you to defend him then keep him at home and homeschool him. Cripes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said: Well it won’t matter how I reply because you’ll just say since I’m not the parent of a highly touted athlete then I don’t understand. ironically I can relate in a very different way than athletics because I have a child with a gift that puts him much higher “rank wise” nationally then what smith was coming out of HS, and when he was in a situation that appeared to “limit his potential” we told him “sorry son, you aren’t always going to have the chance to get everything you OUGHT to get in life even if you are gifted and talented. That’s just called life.” guess I just parent differently. I don’t live through my kids talents and I’m more interested in how he’s prepared for real life and how he has to be humble, work hard, and follow the lead of people above him in a respectful way. i have ZERO patience for adults who act like kids. Again I’m done but how did he act like a kid...he literally said something that like almost everyone on this board and maybe even yourself has said...Archie isn’t getting the most out of this team and it’s players. I’ve said much much more critical things...why are you so butt hurt he called Archie out. Archie is a big boy he can handle himself he doesn’t need a legion of faithful followers to save him. He will either coach better and work harder and find the answer or he will be out of a job in a couple years but Ed has zero affect on this team and I see nothing wrong with him sharing the opinion that a majority of Indiana fans share at this point in the season. The team is getting worse and Archie isn’t stopping the bleeding. It’s a two way contract with Archie and Justin...maybe Archie isn’t living up to his end of the bargain. In the end Justin will make that decision. I respect you and how you handle your children but it wouldn’t be wrong if someone is wasting his talent for him to want to maximize it instead of waste away. Life isn’t fair...but that doesn’t mean you can’t speak out the truth. Justin came into a difficult situation he was sold on playing ball by Crean...then he loses the coach he wanted to play for with little options left and likely missed out on other schools he may have wanted to go to. Then Archie makes him some assurances etc and maybe Archie isn’t living up to them. I can see how that would be upsetting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, dgambill said: Again I’m done but how did he act like a kid...he literally said something that like almost everyone on this board and maybe even yourself has said...Archie isn’t getting the most out of this team and it’s players. I’ve said much much more critical things...why are you so butt hurt he called Archie out. Archie is a big boy he can handle himself he doesn’t need a legion of faithful followers to save him. He will either coach better and work harder and find the answer or he will be out of a job in a couple years but Ed has zero affect on this team and I see nothing wrong with him sharing the opinion that a majority of Indiana fans share at this point in the season. The team is getting worse and Archie isn’t stopping the bleeding. It’s a two way contract with Archie and Justin...maybe Archie isn’t living up to his end of the bargain. In the end Justin will make that decision. I respect you and how you handle your children but it wouldn’t be wrong if someone is wasting his talent for him to want to maximize it instead of waste away. Life isn’t fair...but that doesn’t mean you can’t speak out the truth. Justin came into a difficult situation he was sold on playing ball by Crean...then he loses the coach he wanted to play for with little options left and likely missed out on other schools he may have wanted to go to. Then Archie makes him some assurances etc and maybe Archie isn’t living up to them. I can see how that would be upsetting. Again, I’m done BUT... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said: If you don’t get a pay raise you feel you deserve does your dad flame out on social media about it complaining about your boss? No. Because you are a man and a big boy. Quite honestly my dad never would do anything like this when I was in college because I was raised to be a man by then. This is your life now son, I’m here to bounce ideas off of but you fight your own battles. the problem is in the fact that a dad thinks his kid needs defending when he’s in college. Justin should be appalled and embarrassed that his daddy is acting like this to begin with. If you feel your son needs you to defend him then keep him at home and homeschool him. Cripes I guess I don’t know the whole story because all I saw was a parent agree with some fans on Twitter that Archie isn’t improving the play of the team. Is it true....yes. My job isn’t the topic of social media so I don’t know why my dad would spout off on it and don’t see how that is even similar. Now if there were a wirl wind of controversy surrounding my company and how poorly it was run and my dad agreed I would say that is his opinion and his right. He doesn’t speak for me nor does his opinion influence my allegiance to my company or how hard I work at my job. I don’t view Ed as anything different than any other IU fan...I don’t treat him more special or care more what he says...why would I? His opinion while I might actually agree with about Archie doesnt matter any more or less than those on this board. I don’t know why he being s parent means anything more than anyone else unless he was sharing inside information about the team and purposely hurting other kids on the team. I’ve yet to hear him call out anyone but Archie and to me he is fair game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, BADGERVOL said: Again, I’m done BUT... lol 😋 you got me...I just can’t understand why Justin’s dad is a big deal. He isn’t part of the team or program...just a disgruntled fan like all the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said: If you don’t get a pay raise you feel you deserve does your dad flame out on social media about it complaining about your boss? No. Because you are a man and a big boy. Quite honestly my dad never would do anything like this when I was in college because I was raised to be a man by then. This is your life now son, I’m here to bounce ideas off of but you fight your own battles. the problem is in the fact that a dad thinks his kid needs defending when he’s in college. Justin should be appalled and embarrassed that his daddy is acting like this to begin with. If you feel your son needs you to defend him then keep him at home and homeschool him. Cripes I agree with your issues in regards to Justin’s dad tweets but how do you know that Justin is not embarrassed by his dads behavior? You stated your dad would not do anything like that, neither would mine but that does not mean Justin can control what his dad does. I’m beating a dead horse but don’t understand punishing/not playing Smith because of his dads tweets. I do understand not playing him because of lack of effort, bad defense and airballs but not because of what his father does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, IU878176 said: I agree with your issues in regards to Justin’s dad tweets but how do you know that Justin is not embarrassed by his dads behavior? You stated your dad would not do anything like that, neither would mine but that does not mean Justin can control what his dad does. I’m beating a dead horse but don’t understand punishing/not playing Smith because of his dads tweets. I do understand not playing him because of lack of effort, bad defense and airballs but not because of what his father does. Justin's dad should be embarrassed by his son's play. I realize he's biased but to blame it all on the coach is ridiculous. He has to see that his son is not very good. I mean he may feel that coach is the problem but to say it publicly when anyone can see his son's effort is lacking makes him look stupid. It makes him look as bad as Eastern's mom complaining about her son not being properly utilized when he was horrible on offense. Hat's off to Eastern for never getting down, always hustling and defending and fixing his atrocious free throw shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 hours ago, dgambill said: I haven’t seen any other tweets. Just this one and it’s absolutely true and while it’s not only up to Archie to improve the team the players have a part in that he isn’t wrong and I don’t see how him saying it is any different than anyone else. If the program is going to let outside tweets affect them than there is a bigger problem...nothing should matter but what happens inside the program and block the rest out. As an IU fan I feel the same way he does...so he can’t say it but I can?? Hi Edward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, Lurker said: Justin's dad should be embarrassed by his son's play. I realize he's biased but to blame it all on the coach is ridiculous. He has to see that his son is not very good. I mean he may feel that coach is the problem but to say it publicly when anyone can see his son's effort is lacking makes him look stupid. It makes him look as bad as Eastern's mom complaining about her son not being properly utilized when he was horrible on offense. Hat's off to Eastern for never getting down, always hustling and defending and fixing his atrocious free throw shooting. Yes, the DADS behavior is biased/ridiculous/stupid but again it is his father, not Justin, sending those tweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, IU878176 said: Yes, the DADS behavior is biased/ridiculous/stupid but again it is his father, not Justin, sending those tweets. I’m assuming since he agreed with the tweeter that no one has improved on the team and he added no one has improved under Archie that he is also including his son hasn’t improved and that doesn’t speak of a biased opinion...seems like an honest accessment from a disappointed father...but hardly a ridiculous take....unless you are saying he is being stupid for taking that opinion to Twitter..that I can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 C'mon guys...it is useless to babble about this stuff. I think I will pour myself another drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 5 hours ago, BADGERVOL said: I consider this a civil post so I’m going to reply in a civil tone. Even if Ed was in fact 100% correct and Archie is a rotten coach and is making grave mistakes left and right and preventing the team from being more successful, I still do not believe that it is even partially appropriate for him to go off on social media. Will parents do that today? Yes. And in everyone of those instances they are acting inappropriately. when someone has a problem with someone else they should go to that person. If that doesn’t work, then they can go to the AD. But truth is, it shouldn’t BE the parent at this age level. The parent should be teaching their young adult that a part of growing up is that THEY as the athlete need to go to their authority figure and then follow the proper chain of command. This is how life works...or should. Heck as a parent of a MS boy, my son came home ticked at a teacher and the first thing I asked him “Habe you gone to that teacher?” He said “No.” I said “then until you do you have two options...let it go, or go try to work it out. If you try that and can’t make it work then we’ll take the next step. Otherwise this discussion is over.” I further explained that when he has a job someday it won’t be tolerated for him to flame off to all his friends, get ticked on social media and try to create a mutiny against someone. That’s just going to get you fired. I hate helicopter parents it is one of my GREATEST pet peeves in life. Verdell Jones Sr. had major problems, early on with Tom Crean. A fact only a few people know about, because I have shared it with them on HSN. The reason, few knew little about it ? All the meetings ( and there were many) Jones Sr. had with Crean were HELD BEHIND CLOSED DOORS ! Eventually, they were able to come to agreement on many things, and work out their issues. Bottom line. There are ways to work out issues, without the whole world knowing that you have an issue. When one airs his dirty laundry in public..... all that does is make that person look like a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 hours ago, dgambill said: I fail to see the problem. He is only saying what all the rest of us are saying. He isn’t saying he isn’t getting Justin more shots or not playing him enough...just that this team isn’t improving. He isn’t calling out another of the players like people on here do. What’s the issue? 12-2 (or 12-4?) at the time of his first tweet. Romeo had scored in double digits in all games up to that point as the nation's leading finisher at the rim at 78%. We we're 4-1 in 1 possession games. I could go on and on. All of that can be dismissed I suppose as anecdotal / circumstantial. I will agree that Edward's tweets are not the sole reason for this team's collapse. Fortunately, no one has said that. However, it is easy to link it as the spark in the tinder box. There are/were many issues with the team. As 5fouls said in another post, it was the first tweet that broke the camel's back. Deleting it or not, the damage was done. Reading your post history in this thread, we are not likely to agree on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iu2win Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Even if not a "spark in the tender box" in terms of causing any problems, at a minimum it was indicative to those of us outside the locker room as to possible division inside the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, PoHoosier said: 12-2 (or 12-4?) at the time of his first tweet. Romeo had scored in double digits in all games up to that point as the nation's leading finisher at the rim at 78%. We we're 4-1 in 1 possession games. I could go on and on. All of that can be dismissed I suppose as anecdotal / circumstantial. I will agree that Edward's tweets are not the sole reason for this team's collapse. Fortunately, no one has said that. However, it is easy to link it as the spark in the tinder box. There are/were many issues with the team. As 5fouls said in another post, it was the first tweet that broke the camel's back. Deleting it or not, the damage was done. Reading your post history in this thread, we are not likely to agree on this issue. Pretty spot on. And one thing I'll add is the timing of the tweet. Happened just after Illinois game where Smith had 5 shot attempts. Could be the Dad wanted his son to show off vs home state school and he got ticked when he didn't....and it came out during the Michigan game. Either way. Justin hasn't smiled in weeks. He looks so lost. Best interests for him and all is probably to leave. One thing though is we need to have him leave in good academic standing so it doesn't hurt our APR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierJax Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 9 hours ago, dgambill said: Well said. I think everyone is so frustrated at the season that we are willing to blame anyone and everyone. No one really knows the issues with the chemistry on the team...or with the coaching...what if Justin comes back next year....are we going to be complaining all summer? I think the situation is a lot more complicated than it seems but parents complaining...that is nothing new....it’s a nothing burger in my world. People complaining is nothing new,but when you have a father taking to twitter to complain about the way his son is being used,about the way his son is not getting better as a player and then you watch the son play in games for the last 6 weeks and see how he cant even hit a lay up,see how his efforts are minimal at best,see the attitude, see him walk back to huddles when everyone else runs back,its almost like its intentional...i bet there has been no extra work been put in by his son whatsoever thur out the season...instead of looking in the mirror, its easier for him to point his finger. Funny how you dont hear from other players parents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathery Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 hours ago, 5 championships said: Hi Edward Exactly what I was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblaz13 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I'll stay out of this so long as Ed doesn't come out say both him and his son are better than Jordan. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Smith and his father are prima Donnas - this further convinces that Smith is a more of a problem. We need to cut him and his father loose (since evidently they are a package) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I will also point out, as others have as well, that this piss poor play started around the same time Edward Smith decided to take a shot at the team with his first tweet which I believe was after the single digit loss at #2 Michigan. Coincidence? Who knows? But it certainly hasn’t helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 hours ago, dgambill said: And if that is your reaction to someone being critical instead of proving the opposite by doing the gritty hard work of improving your team and yes even his kid than you know what...you are getting upset at someone for telling the truth. That would be dumb to bench someone who has the ability to be one of our best players but is floundering because you haven’t been able to develop an offense to utilize his or anyone else’s talents on this team. Thankfully I’m sure Archie isn’t that sensitive to criticism to give up on a kid because his parent is unhappy with you. Archie is paid to coach this team...not to penalize kids for what others do....Justin can’t control his dad. So the answer is do your job...do it better and it will take care of itself. Question is does Archie have what it takes to make the necessary changes to improve the play of this team...so far no. So glad Archie doesn’t take your view...he would ask ushers remove fans that boo?? Kick out journalist that ask critical questions...and none of this is Justin’s fault so even if people don’t like it and I accept that...should leave Justin out of it. Archie is not the biggest obstacle in the way of Justin's improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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