Purdue post game

[Seeking6]

Since 2000 this series is tied up at 17-17 with runs of 4+ victories in a row by Purdue or IU happening 5 times. Amazing to think about that both schools haven't been good at the same time in what, almost 30 years?

[Billingsley99]

We have a lot of basketball knowledge sitting on our bench so there must be something that I dont know or am missing so i am asking for help from the board. These guys know basketball hence they are the staff at IU and i am not.  We primarily run 2 types of offense,  the weave and high ball screen. Very few sets. All of which is fine. Here is where i am lost.

For the high ball screen offense to have any success 1 or both of the offensive players need to be a serious shooting threat. There are several ways to defend it. Trap it, hedge, help and recover,  jam it, switch it, force over the top, slide under etc...  the opposing coach has to scheme it for what works best for their team and against the 2 offensive players.  We continue to run it with no shooting threat. We have no one on the roster that can come off a hi ball screen and bury a 20 footer.  No one that can cross over step behind he screen and knock down a 3.with that being said to defend it all you need to do is clog the lane with the post defender and give enough room for the on ball defender to slide through. We have no real options from there. The lane is too congested for drives,  we cant slip it, we cant pick and pop. ZERO options, but we still do it. My philosophy has always been the defense is always wrong. You always have options and work in them based on what the 2 defenders do. We dont have options.

The weave only works if you can space the floor with shooters to allow drive angles or drive and when the help comes kick to shooters. Neither of these work for our team.

If a nobody like me can see it and know how to defend it, then why do we think opposing coaches would not. I would not be opposed to 90% sets for this team. Teaching screening is hard work though.

Last night CMP ran a set to get Stanfonovich ( a kid that this board would have gone into meltdown if we had on our team) run off a double screen and bury a 3. We do not have 1 guy on this roster that can come off a screen and hit a 3. We have no one that can run baseline and come off a screen for a corner 3. 

Is it the former coach current coach players or all of the above that we can't do that. I can tell you I have always had jr hi kids that can come off a double and bury a 3. 

This offense makes Virginia look like the Paul Westphal Loyola Marrimount Teams or The Runnin Rebels

Our offense or lack there of is the very definition of insanity. 

With all that being said I am proud of our guys. Good bounces come to teams that deserve them and unfortunately we are getting what we deserve.  I can live with last nights effort just wish a little luck had gone our way

[The Daily Hoosier]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.  It truly was a tale of two ends of the floor as Indiana continues to find ways to lose.
✅final grades 
✅box score/specialty stats
✅highlights
✅post-game interviews
https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/purdue-at-indiana-the-report-card-2/

[rico]

3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

We have a lot of basketball knowledge sitting on our bench so there must be something that I dont know or am missing so i am asking for help from the board. These guys know basketball hence they are the staff at IU and i am not.  We primarily run 2 types of offense,  the weave and high ball screen. Very few sets. All of which is fine. Here is where i am lost.

For the high ball screen offense to have any success 1 or both of the offensive players need to be a serious shooting threat. There are several ways to defend it. Trap it, hedge, help and recover,  jam it, switch it, force over the top, slide under etc...  the opposing coach has to scheme it for what works best for their team and against the 2 offensive players.  We continue to run it with no shooting threat. We have no one on the roster that can come off a hi ball screen and bury a 20 footer.  No one that can cross over step behind he screen and knock down a 3.with that being said to defend it all you need to do is clog the lane with the post defender and give enough room for the on ball defender to slide through. We have no real options from there. The lane is too congested for drives,  we cant slip it, we cant pick and pop. ZERO options, but we still do it. My philosophy has always been the defense is always wrong. You always have options and work in them based on what the 2 defenders do. We dont have options.

The weave only works if you can space the floor with shooters to allow drive angles or drive and when the help comes kick to shooters. Neither of these work for our team.

If a nobody like me can see it and know how to defend it, then why do we think opposing coaches would not. I would not be opposed to 90% sets for this team. Teaching screening is hard work though.

Last night CMP ran a set to get Stanfonovich ( a kid that this board would have gone into meltdown if we had on our team) run off a double screen and bury a 3. We do not have 1 guy on this roster that can come off a screen and hit a 3. We have no one that can run baseline and come off a screen for a corner 3. 

Is it the former coach current coach players or all of the above that we can't do that. I can tell you I have always had jr hi kids that can come off a double and bury a 3. 

This offense makes Virginia look like the Paul Westphal Loyola Marrimount Teams or The Runnin Rebels

Our offense or lack there of is the very definition of insanity. 

With all that being said I am proud of our guys. Good bounces come to teams that deserve them and unfortunately we are getting what we deserve.  I can live with last nights effort just wish a little luck had gone our way

One correction, that be Paul Westhead at Loyola Marymount.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, Stlboiler23 said:

What were some that stood out to you?

The Davis and one that was called on the floor and the multiple blatant travels are the first to come to my mind. 

[cybergates]

10 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Romeos on twitter retweeting all of his highlights from our loss. Can’t say I’m a fan of that. 

Does someone run his account for him (at times)?

Regardless, not a good look.

[southsidehoosier]

9 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Since 2000 this series is tied up at 17-17 with runs of 4+ victories in a row by Purdue or IU happening 5 times. Amazing to think about that both schools haven't been good at the same time in what, almost 30 years?

To piggyback on this. In the time period IU has 3 B1G regular season titles while Purdue has 2. 

[Seeking6]

Just now, cybergates said:

Does someone run his account for him (at times)?

Regardless, not a good look.

Least of our concerns in my opinion. 

[cohete15]

1. I feel bad for some of you. No one is happy with a loss. No one is happy with moral victories. But man, some of you have your mind so made up, you can't even watch and appreciate what's actually happening.

2. For those complaining about the refs...you're right, they were horrible. Their worst work Was the first two fouls on Rob, which completely changed the game. Rob is going to be an absolute monster. He will be a better version of Carsen Edwards. 

3. For those complaining about Archie with the refs...he is on them the whole game. He says things that should get him T'd up. He's always in their ear...and he's not whispering sweet nothings, trust me. I sit close enough to sometimes hear and definitely read his lips. By the way some of you reacted to the game, you would have complained if Archie did get a technical because it gave them free throws

4. There was a STARK difference in our abysmal shooting performance and theirs...I can recall 3 open shots for Purdue. Our defense was ridiculous. We had SEVERAL wide open shots. Some of you act like Archie was the one shooting the ball. Love Juwan, but he shot 7 wide open 3's and passed up about 6 others. He made 1. The defense played between the two teams was not the same. It wasn't close.

5. I don't like the offense/weave, but it was not why we lost. Inability to hit shots at the rim and wide open threes...that's why we lost. That's not a coaching/offensive philosophy issue. 

6. Do people not understand that opponents try really, really hard to prevent Romeo from doing what he wants? They darn near triple team him when he gets the ball. There is never a time that there's not help defense on him, plus a third guy underneath him to push him further from the basket. 

7. Carsen Edwards had 9 points. He was defended by our 3-star freshman, 3-star sophomore and a walk-on. We tried really hard to take away what he does. We did it. Purdue tried really hard to take Romeo away. They did, and Romeo still outplayed Carsen. 

[Billingsley99]

16 minutes ago, rico said:

One correction, that be Paul Westhead at Loyola Marymount.

Thanks. Mr. Ricopedia😀. Good job on the call of the game last night. 

[HoosierJax]

11 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Molly McGrath is one of the more attractive sideline reporters in the business.

Better than Maria Taylor.?

[cybergates]

13 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Since 2000 this series is tied up at 17-17 with runs of 4+ victories in a row by Purdue or IU happening 5 times. Amazing to think about that both schools haven't been good at the same time in what, almost 30 years?

Thanks for the info.

During the game, the incessant Duke vs UNC commercials/promos got me thinking along these same lines. I used to think IU/PU was right there with Duke/UNC as the top rivalry in college basketball when Knight and Keady were there, since they've been gone I was thinking that the teams haven't been good at the same time so the rivalry isn't considered great nationally.

[HoosierJax]

11 hours ago, milehiiu said:

No joke.  Just watch all the good that he did at the close of the game.

All i seen was about 5 missed lay ups,not game ball worthy 

[Billingsley99]

13 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

1. I feel bad for some of you. No one is happy with a loss. No one is happy with moral victories. But man, some of you have your mind so made up, you can't even watch and appreciate what's actually happening.

2. For those complaining about the refs...you're right, they were horrible. Their worst work Was the first two fouls on Rob, which completely changed the game. Rob is going to be an absolute monster. He will be a better version of Carsen Edwards. 

3. For those complaining about Archie with the refs...he is on them the whole game. He says things that should get him T'd up. He's always in their ear...and he's not whispering sweet nothings, trust me. I sit close enough to sometimes hear and definitely read his lips. By the way some of you reacted to the game, you would have complained if Archie did get a technical because it gave them free throws

4. There was a STARK difference in our abysmal shooting performance and theirs...I can recall 3 open shots for Purdue. Our defense was ridiculous. We had SEVERAL wide open shots. Some of you act like Archie was the one shooting the ball. Love Juwan, but he shot 7 wide open 3's and passed up about 6 others. He made 1. The defense played between the two teams was not the same. It wasn't close.

5. I don't like the offense/weave, but it was not why we lost. Inability to hit shots at the rim and wide open threes...that's why we lost. That's not a coaching/offensive philosophy issue. 

6. Do people not understand that opponents try really, really hard to prevent Romeo from doing what he wants? They darn near triple team him when he gets the ball. There is never a time that there's not help defense on him, plus a third guy underneath him to push him further from the basket. 

7. Carsen Edwards had 9 points. He was defended by our 3-star freshman, 3-star sophomore and a walk-on. We tried really hard to take away what he does. We did it. Purdue tried really hard to take Romeo away. They did, and Romeo still outplayed Carsen. 

Well said I agree with a big portion of that. If he hit some bunnies we win going away. That effort on the defensive end and overall rebounding was great.

Yes other teams do try to take RL away but like it or not out Staff has to find ways to get it done. Not a knock just reality. There are many ways to counter what the defense does. My issue is I see the same things that continue to not show results.  I get it we cant go get a shooter off the streets and 1 legit threat would change everything IMO

[Maedhros]

19 minutes ago, cybergates said:

Amazing isn't it.

Looked at Dayton prior to Archie and they were ranked 137 on O and 77 on D. Archie turned that into 29 on O and 160 on D his 1st season there. 108 improvement on O and 83 drop in D.

So it looks like he's a good O coach and bad D coach from that, but...

IU prior to Archie was ranked 27 on O and 104 on D. Archie turned that into 92 on O and 65 on D last year/his 1st season here. 65 drop in O and 39 improvement on D.

So its looks like he's a bad O coach and a good D coach from that, so...

Currently ranked 104 on O and 28 on D, making another drop of 12 on O and 37 improvement on D.

What to make of all this? Beats me, but his offense seemed to work at Dayton with the previous coaches players and dropped of in subsequent years, and his defense got better. Here his offense has yet to work and the defense improvement was/is outstanding. 

Here's hoping that his offense works with better shooters and/or he's willing to change his approach if the current players don't fit.

Look at Archie's ranks year over year at Dayton. Each year until his last season, the offense gets worse and the defense gets better. From that first season that finished ranked 29 and 160, respectively, by his penultimate season Dayton ranked 146 and 15, respectively. His last season was well rounded at 53 and 43, but the trendline is pretty hard to ignore.

[rico]

7 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Thanks. Mr. Ricopedia😀. Good job on the call of the game last night. 

LOL......but yeah, we need to run some set plays.

[cybergates]

1 minute ago, Maedhros said:

Look at Archie's ranks year over year at Dayton. Each year until his last season, the offense gets worse and the defense gets better. From that first season that finished ranked 29 and 160, respectively, by his penultimate season Dayton ranked 146 and 15, respectively. His last season was well rounded at 53 and 43, but the trendline is pretty hard to ignore.

I did. That's why I said..."his offense seemed to work at Dayton with the previous coaches players and dropped of in subsequent years, and his defense got better"

[Billingsley99]

11 minutes ago, rico said:

LOL......but yeah, we need to run some set plays.

Lately I have not been able to watch much but I do not recall many sets over the course of the year. Everyone has a slew of go to looks for a must bucket but we just hoo ball screen or weave or iso

[cohete15]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

Well said I agree with a big portion of that. If he hit some bunnies we win going away. That effort on the defensive end and overall rebounding was great.

Yes other teams do try to take RL away but like it or not out Staff has to find ways to get it done. Not a knock just reality. There are many ways to counter what the defense does. My issue is I see the same things that continue to not show results.  I get it we cant go get a shooter off the streets and 1 legit threat would change everything IMO

I'm with you. Supporting cast needs to be much better from a shooting standpoint, and things get A LOT different Romeo, Juwan and Deron. 

The frustrating thing for me last night, was not the loss, but the thought of what our record would be if half the effort used last night was used in the past 12 games. The "what if" hurts.

[Maedhros]

2 minutes ago, cybergates said:

I did. That's why I said..."his offense seemed to work at Dayton with the previous coaches players and dropped of in subsequent years, and his defense got better"

Yep. I was agreeing with you, adding to what you had said with something I myself had been looking at yesterday.

[IUDan93]

24 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

We have a lot of basketball knowledge sitting on our bench so there must be something that I dont know or am missing so i am asking for help from the board. These guys know basketball hence they are the staff at IU and i am not.  We primarily run 2 types of offense,  the weave and high ball screen. Very few sets. All of which is fine. Here is where i am lost.

For the high ball screen offense to have any success 1 or both of the offensive players need to be a serious shooting threat. There are several ways to defend it. Trap it, hedge, help and recover,  jam it, switch it, force over the top, slide under etc...  the opposing coach has to scheme it for what works best for their team and against the 2 offensive players.  We continue to run it with no shooting threat. We have no one on the roster that can come off a hi ball screen and bury a 20 footer.  No one that can cross over step behind he screen and knock down a 3.with that being said to defend it all you need to do is clog the lane with the post defender and give enough room for the on ball defender to slide through. We have no real options from there. The lane is too congested for drives,  we cant slip it, we cant pick and pop. ZERO options, but we still do it. My philosophy has always been the defense is always wrong. You always have options and work in them based on what the 2 defenders do. We dont have options.

The weave only works if you can space the floor with shooters to allow drive angles or drive and when the help comes kick to shooters. Neither of these work for our team.

If a nobody like me can see it and know how to defend it, then why do we think opposing coaches would not. I would not be opposed to 90% sets for this team. Teaching screening is hard work though.

Last night CMP ran a set to get Stanfonovich ( a kid that this board would have gone into meltdown if we had on our team) run off a double screen and bury a 3. We do not have 1 guy on this roster that can come off a screen and hit a 3. We have no one that can run baseline and come off a screen for a corner 3. 

Is it the former coach current coach players or all of the above that we can't do that. I can tell you I have always had jr hi kids that can come off a double and bury a 3. 

This offense makes Virginia look like the Paul Westphal Loyola Marrimount Teams or The Runnin Rebels

Our offense or lack there of is the very definition of insanity. 

With all that being said I am proud of our guys. Good bounces come to teams that deserve them and unfortunately we are getting what we deserve.  I can live with last nights effort just wish a little luck had gone our way

You aren't a nobody, you're an esteemed member of this fine establishment. I think you see all I see and more. We don't have good shooters, plus we have some players with limited ball skills. I think we are easy to defend because we can't seem to keep a defense honest. 

[KoB2011]

54 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

agree with that.  But the refs missed a pretty obvious charge on Romeo when they called it a block.  Almost the same play happened earlier when Romeo was guarding Eastern and they called a charge on Eastern instead of a block on Romeo.

This is a strange take, clearly that of a Homer. The Romeo call could have gone either way, but Eastern very aggressively extended his arm into Romeo's chest. 

[rico]

4 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Lately I have not been able to watch much but I do not recall many sets over the course of the year. Everyone has a slew of go to looks for a must bucket but we just hoo ball screen or weave or iso

Seems like today you have to call a time out to call a "set" play.

[Billingsley99]

17 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

You aren't a nobody, you're an esteemed member of this fine establishment. I think you see all I see and more. We don't have good shooters, plus we have some players with limited ball skills. I think we are easy to defend because we can't seem to keep a defense honest. 

I do believe that is the first time being called esteemed and coming from you sir I take that as a high compliment . Great shooting covers many flaws right now we are exposed and we know that it will get better.

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

53 minutes ago, southsidehoosier said:

Actually yeah I do. I think you can have things chanted at you and still at the end of the game not yell that obscene phrase in front of the cameras. It's not like it's a hard thing to control.

For Haarms...it probably is. Not a very mature kid.