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Miller Elaborates on Problem -- Leaves One Big Question


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why couldn’t Archie get their attention after the Nebraska game?  I’ve heard national hosts who played for other NCAA teams in the past day they would have run in the next practice tilll they puked after that game. Is archie not allowed to reprimand the players for bad performance and they know it?  Glass is a knight sycophant but he already got rid of one coach in football for player treatment...no inside info. It just seems like there may be something on  the administration side as well

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Does anyone of us know what Archie did throughout the losing streak to change the culture, or to send a message? I know that I have no idea what he has done.  It just seems that a fair number of people are drawing conclusions about what he has, or has not done, because of results(or lack thereof).  Do we know that he hasn't run them into the ground? Do we know if running them into the ground would be the right thing to do with a team that has been hit with all sorts of injuries?  

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40 minutes ago, iufaninand said:

why couldn’t Archie get their attention after the Nebraska game?  I’ve heard national hosts who played for other NCAA teams in the past day they would have run in the next practice tilll they puked after that game. Is archie not allowed to reprimand the players for bad performance and they know it?  Glass is a knight sycophant but he already got rid of one coach in football for player treatment...no inside info. It just seems like there may be something on  the administration side as well

I think there is much more to this than what some are giving credit for.  For all of its good intentions, I think the Student Athlete’s Bill of Rights that Glass championed is having some unintended negative consequences with teams.  At the end of the day, this is D1 Level competition so everything should be earned year after year, not guaranteed.  The same thing applies to the professional world: you are not guaranteed to keep your job next year, next month, or even next week if your performance and effort doesn’t meet expectation.

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9 minutes ago, ClusterHead said:

I think there is much more to this than what some are giving credit for.  For all of its good intentions, I think the Student Athlete’s Bill of Rights that Glass championed is having some unintended negative consequences with teams.  At the end of the day, this is D1 Level competition so everything should be earned year after year, not guaranteed.  The same thing applies to the professional world: you are not guaranteed to keep your job next year, next month, or even next week if your performance and effort doesn’t meet expectation.

They are guarenteed to have their education paid for if they so choose, they ARE NOT guarenteed a spot on the basketball team nor does their spot count against the scholorship numbers if a player is dismissed.

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35 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

Does anyone of us know what Archie did throughout the losing streak to change the culture, or to send a message? I know that I have no idea what he has done.  It just seems that a fair number of people are drawing conclusions about what he has, or has not done, because of results(or lack thereof).  Do we know that he hasn't run them into the ground? Do we know if running them into the ground would be the right thing to do with a team that has been hit with all sorts of injuries?  

This!

I get it, it's the nature of message boards. Heck, I've wracked up thousands, upon thousands of posts on the various iterations of HSN. With that said, a lot of assumptions are being made with probably less than 1% of the actual information, and zero knowledge of the interpersonal relationships between player/coaches and teammates. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

This!

I get it, it's the nature of message boards. Heck, I've wracked up thousands, upon thousands of posts on the various iterations of HSN. With that said, a lot of assumptions are being made with probably less than 1% of the actual information, and zero knowledge of the interpersonal relationships between player/coaches and teammates. 

I will add to this by questioning the assumption that the best way to get results, or to motivate athletes,  needs to lean toward the punitive.  Phil Jackson focused on mindfulness, meditation and various "crazy" Zen philosophies.  Having some of the best players ever in the history of the game was vital, but his techniques sure seemed to be important in the success as well.

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27 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

I will add to this by questioning the assumption that the best way to get results, or to motivate athletes,  needs to lean toward the punitive.  Phil Jackson focused on mindfulness, meditation and various "crazy" Zen philosophies.  Having some of the best players ever in the history of the game was vital, but his techniques sure seemed to be important in the success as well.

I think for some of us it’s the combo of seeing the same lack of results AND seeing some things that most any coach would do to respond to lack of effort and mistakes and that’s sitting on the BENCH. 

I will admit he maybe has had them do many things in practice we don’t know about (I hope he has), but the most obvious place to start is a place we’ve seen little to nothing done about.

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For me, Archie is the coach, and he needs to handle this in his own way.  But, that does not mean I agree with it.  I would 'teach" more through playing time than through running in practice or something like that.  Archie may be doing that with guys like Moore, but Justin and Devonte are still playing.

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58 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

For me, Archie is the coach, and he needs to handle this in his own way.  But, that does not mean I agree with it.  I would 'teach" more through playing time than through running in practice or something like that.  Archie may be doing that with guys like Moore, but Justin and Devonte are still playing.

IMO, with the way the roster is constructed, CAM is almost handcuffed into playing Devonte.  Just like last game when Rob got into foul trouble, he had no choice but to bring DG in off of the bench.  I've heard you say, "well just let Romeo handle the ball", which is fine, but you need at least two players that can handle the ball on the court.  Now JS, is a different story.  I would definitely split his minutes amongst the guys you have mentioned.

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On 2/21/2019 at 9:04 AM, The Daily Hoosier said:

Indiana head coach Archie Miller elaborated on the issues that have plagued the Hoosiers this year.  But his explanation, and IU's play on Tuesday night leaves one burning question.

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/archie-miller-elaborates-on-issues-plaguing-indiana-but-leaves-one-burning-question/

Sorry TDH, just can't buy what CAM is peddling here.  Sorry but I think many find CAM simply disingenuous here.  THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OF YOU OR THE ARTICLE BUT RATHER THE EXPLANATION CAM IS GIVING.   There is no way to convince me that these D1 player's psyche are so fragile that 1 loss to the hands of the mighty Cornhuskers caused the train to derail.  Perhaps we may never know.  However, the most likely explanation revolves around discord amongst the players.  Most speculate that DG and JS are the root causes.  Again, no one knows outside the program. It appears that CAM has chosen to play the presumed instigators despite their actions.  Again, all of this is speculation since no one will give the fans any info.  I think the fact that those players continue to see the floor rather than ride the bench given their presumed crimes is fueling a lot of fan resentment against the players and also against CAM because he appears so feckless(certainly nothing that would have happened under CBK).  Combining the optics and the losing record with the high expectations of the fans and it makes for a perfect storm.  I think a little honesty from CAM could go a long way in quieting the uproar from this season.

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2 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

I think for some of us it’s the combo of seeing the same lack of results AND seeing some things that most any coach would do to respond to lack of effort and mistakes and that’s sitting on the BENCH. 

I will admit he maybe has had them do many things in practice we don’t know about (I hope he has), but the most obvious place to start is a place we’ve seen little to nothing done about.

I agree with this. It would surprise me though if CAM has no good reason for his decisions related to playing time, or use of the bench. I have said it before, but IMHO part of the problem fans have with this year is that we don't seem to have a clue as to why or how decisions are made. We are unclear about the philosophy and vision of the program right now.  Many, myself included, have assumed that because we don't see or understand that there is nothing being done.

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16 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

Sorry TDH, just can't buy what CAM is peddling here.  Sorry but I think many find CAM simply disingenuous here.  THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OF YOU OR THE ARTICLE BUT RATHER THE EXPLANATION CAM IS GIVING.   There is no way to convince me that these D1 player's psyche are so fragile that 1 loss to the hands of the mighty Cornhuskers caused the train to derail.  Perhaps we may never know.  However, the most likely explanation revolves around discord amongst the players.  Most speculate that DG and JS are the root causes.  Again, no one knows outside the program. It appears that CAM has chosen to play the presumed instigators despite their actions.  Again, all of this is speculation since no one will give the fans any info.  I think the fact that those players continue to see the floor rather than ride the bench given their presumed crimes is fueling a lot of fan resentment against the players and also against CAM because he appears so feckless(certainly nothing that would have happened under CBK).  Combining the optics and the losing record with the high expectations of the fans and it makes for a perfect storm.  I think a little honesty from CAM could go a long way in quieting the uproar from this season.

Yeah I think those are very good points.  Without being quite as direct as you were, I feel like by asking the question "What took so long", implied in there is a healthy amount skepticism about what is going on.  I don't think we'll get any real honesty from anyone until the press release comes out in April that "player X has decided to transfer."

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13 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

I agree with this. It would surprise me though if CAM has no good reason for his decisions related to playing time, or use of the bench. I have said it before, but IMHO part of the problem fans have with this year is that we don't seem to have a clue as to why or how decisions are made. We are unclear about the philosophy and vision of the program right now.  Many, myself included, have assumed that because we don't see or understand that there is nothing being done.

That’s a fair response to my post.

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3 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

Yeah I think those are very good points.  Without being quite as direct as you were, I feel like by asking the question "What took so long", implied in there is a healthy amount skepticism about what is going on.  I don't think we'll get any real honesty from anyone until the press release comes out in April that "player X has decided to transfer."

Just a question to you TDH from a reporters perspective.  Why wouldn't CAM just come out and say what he is doing and why?  I truly believe it would only help quell the fan anxiety and also help with recruiting.  Sunshine helps heal an infected wound.  If per chance KBJ is vacillating on committing because of the derision, wouldn't that help?  Also, for the potential recruits for 21, wouldn't it also be beneficial to understand the direction CAM is going in terms of program and understanding the culture he is trying to create?  But what do I know,  I'm just a IUBB fan of 50yrs.

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1 hour ago, StLHoosier said:

IMO, with the way the roster is constructed, CAM is almost handcuffed into playing Devonte.  Just like last game when Rob got into foul trouble, he had no choice but to bring DG in off of the bench.  I've heard you say, "well just let Romeo handle the ball", which is fine, but you need at least two players that can handle the ball on the court.  Now JS, is a different story.  I would definitely split his minutes amongst the guys you have mentioned.

this is not a slam on you, but he does have a choice he can lose with anyone....  We are not winning these games or in a position to win the league or even make the tournament. He can lose with them or without them. 

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13 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

Just a question to you TDH from a reporters perspective.  Why wouldn't CAM just come out and say what he is doing and why?  I truly believe it would only help quell the fan anxiety and also help with recruiting.  Sunshine helps heal an infected wound.  If per chance KBJ is vacillating on committing because of the derision, wouldn't that help?  Also, for the potential recruits for 21, wouldn't it also be beneficial to understand the direction CAM is going in terms of program and understanding the culture he is trying to create?  But what do I know,  I'm just a IUBB fan of 50yrs.

I just think the rest of us are always going to be on a need to know basis.  Suppose you are right that JS or DG is a locker room problem.  What good does that do anyone for Archie to say it publicly.  The better answer is to say, hey, play your butt off here for the next month so you can land at the best possible transfer location for you.  He is still trying to win games, and our bench, if you haven't noticed, is a disaster.  It's in everyone's interest to push through it.

If he called out a player, how do you think our home fans would react to them?  Hell, they booed McRoberts recently and all that guy has ever done is bust his butt for this team.  

I think you just put your best foot forward and keep trying to win....and if something gets so bad you part ways mid season.

Whatever needs to be communicated to the recruits is happening separately as well.  The staff talks to their top targets regularly.  If there was something that needed to be communicated they would do it.

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39 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

Just a question to you TDH from a reporters perspective.  Why wouldn't CAM just come out and say what he is doing and why?  I truly believe it would only help quell the fan anxiety and also help with recruiting.  Sunshine helps heal an infected wound.  If per chance KBJ is vacillating on committing because of the derision, wouldn't that help?  Also, for the potential recruits for 21, wouldn't it also be beneficial to understand the direction CAM is going in terms of program and understanding the culture he is trying to create?  But what do I know,  I'm just a IUBB fan of 50yrs.

If he came out and said anything, how would the party or parties who were losing minutes be perceived?  As mentioned above, by fans?  By future recruits.  Right or wrong, I feel CAM will always be the adult here and remain fixed between his players and resentment from fans.  It can also be a selling point, "hey, remember I told you last year you we would have a spot for you as player X ..... , and though X and I differed on many things, I always had his back, as I will have yours.". I also believe some ethics may be involved as to what CAM can and will say.  Sure, this belief of mine gives CAM and staff a great deal of the benefit of the doubt.  Either way, I believe we will know more, eventually.

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27 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

I just think the rest of us are always going to be on a need to know basis.  Suppose you are right that JS or DG is a locker room problem.  What good does that do anyone for Archie to say it publicly.  The better answer is to say, hey, play your butt off here for the next month so you can land at the best possible transfer location for you.  He is still trying to win games, and our bench, if you haven't noticed, is a disaster.  It's in everyone's interest to push through it.

If he called out a player, how do you think our home fans would react to them?  Hell, they booed McRoberts recently and all that guy has ever done is bust his butt for this team.  

I think you just put your best foot forward and keep trying to win....and if something gets so bad you part ways mid season.

Whatever needs to be communicated to the recruits is happening separately as well.  The staff talks to their top targets regularly.  If there was something that needed to be communicated they would do it.

I think the issue that resulted in the suspension for Devonte gave Archie additional leverage to do something more meaningful, but it's been business as usual since the suspension ended. Missed opportunity in my eyes.

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42 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

I just think the rest of us are always going to be on a need to know basis.  Suppose you are right that JS or DG is a locker room problem.  What good does that do anyone for Archie to say it publicly.  The better answer is to say, hey, play your butt off here for the next month so you can land at the best possible transfer location for you.  He is still trying to win games, and our bench, if you haven't noticed, is a disaster.  It's in everyone's interest to push through it.

If he called out a player, how do you think our home fans would react to them?  Hell, they booed McRoberts recently and all that guy has ever done is bust his butt for this team.  

I think you just put your best foot forward and keep trying to win....and if something gets so bad you part ways mid season.

Whatever needs to be communicated to the recruits is happening separately as well.  The staff talks to their top targets regularly.  If there was something that needed to be communicated they would do it.

I think this article, following CAM's hiring, is insightful:

“... as far as dealing with the stuff that comes with the Indiana job, he’s going to take the approach of `You can take your Internet and all your whatever and you can shove it up you’re a** and I’m going to do my job. I’m here to win games,’’’ Matta told Kravitz.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/basketball/indiana-coverage-this-guy-going-win-huge-indiana/EUJCC3xnGQFDVXyMyfjdNN/

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13 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I think this article, following CAM's hiring, is insightful:

“... as far as dealing with the stuff that comes with the Indiana job, he’s going to take the approach of `You can take your Internet and all your whatever and you can shove it up you’re a** and I’m going to do my job. I’m here to win games,’’’ Matta told Kravitz.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/basketball/indiana-coverage-this-guy-going-win-huge-indiana/EUJCC3xnGQFDVXyMyfjdNN/

That quote resonates.  You guys all see his press conferences too.  He's all business.  Never smiles.  Doesn't seem to enjoy it.  Just part of the job.  That's fine.  Some coaches are just like that. 

Others genuinely seem to like the back and forth (Beilein, Painter). 

Other coaches like to hear themselves talk, like to use the opportunity to get a point across, etc. (Izzo)

A lot of it might go with how long they've been on the job/how comfortable they are with where they are.

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