rico Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: Fair enough, but with that stat, I'm showing that opponents would have to respect his shooting ability, not throwing out his scoring average which is, frankly, irrelevant. That opens up the paint and spaces the court - basically the opposite of when we have Justin in there. Again, just because McBob didn't choose to shoot last year didn't make him an offensive liability. Opponents would have still had to respect his shot this year. You can laugh all you want and call him an offensive liability without looking further into his game, but he was a significant loss this season. Sorry there "Action Jackson". You don't create spacing by shooting 1 3-pointer a game, and hope it goes in. But if we are playing "Hot Potato", Zach is the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Excuse: to pardon or forgive; to serve as an apology for; vindicate or justify; a defense of some fault or offensive behavior or as a reason for not fulfilling an obligation. Reason: a basis or cause; as for some belief, action, fact or event. There's a difference between understanding the reason something happened and offering an excuse why an outcome occurred. An example: Injuries have impacted IU's basketball results this season. That's a reason. Is it an excuse? Well, let's look at the other factors. All the injuries were legitimate basketball injuries. It's not like guys were missing games because of....oh, a teammate driving a car into them. Guys weren't rushing back from an injury or doing anything reckless. So no, I don't consider saying that our results were diminished because of injuries an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 minute ago, rico said: Sorry there "Action Jackson". You don't create spacing by shooting 1 3-pointer a game, and hope it goes in. But if we are playing "Hot Potato", Zach is the guy. Sorry, "rico," but your inability to realize what McBob brought to the table when healthy speaks volumes about your basketball knowledge. I'll let you have the last word, because there's no point in having a conversation with someone who determines a player's value by their scoring average. Maybe you should look up Dennis Rodman's stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 minute ago, AxnJxn said: Sorry, "rico," but your inability to realize what McBob brought to the table when healthy speaks volumes about your basketball knowledge. I'll let you have the last word, because there's no point in having a conversation with someone who determines a player's value by their scoring average. Maybe you should look up Dennis Rodman's stats. McBob gets 20 rebounds a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: Excuse: to pardon or forgive; to serve as an apology for; vindicate or justify; a defense of some fault or offensive behavior or as a reason for not fulfilling an obligation. Reason: a basis or cause; as for some belief, action, fact or event. There's a difference between understanding the reason something happened and offering an excuse why an outcome occurred. An example: Injuries have impacted IU's basketball results this season. That's a reason. Is it an excuse? Well, let's look at the other factors. All the injuries were legitimate basketball injuries. It's not like guys were missing games because of....oh, a teammate driving a car into them. Guys weren't rushing back from an injury or doing anything reckless. So no, I don't consider saying that our results were diminished because of injuries an excuse. I'll split the middle. If we're 17-10 right now and talking about injuries hurting our seed, I'll buy it. But, since we're 13-14, then it's an excuse. The problems on this team go way beyond injuries. If I were to rank our issues when determining why we are not going to the tournament, I would go as follows: 1) Internal friction among members of the team. 2) Lack of perimeter shooting 3} Injuries 4) Coaching 5) Bad Luck 6) Bob Knight has an IU Voodoo Doll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Guys, Can we discuss and disagree without getting personal? Everyone is making solid points for what they believe in. There is no reason to throw out personal jabs at someone just because they have a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Took me 4 seconds to scroll the past 3 pages. I hate injuries being used as an excuse as anyone...but when you take 4-5 guys out for extended period of time? Hunter never seeing the court. Race just now seeing action. Davis not healthy all year. RP missing a month. Smaller injuries that impacted things with McRoberts, Juwan....even Romeo with his hand. It's just facts. Injuries have had a big impact on this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 19 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Guys, Can we discuss and disagree without getting personal? Everyone is making solid points for what they believe in. There is no reason to throw out personal jabs at someone just because they have a different opinion. Get off of Blue's cousin and get home to your wife and kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Im with Fouls on that one. Injuries have had a huge impact. I believe it's the 2nd biggest issue with this team instead of third. Ideally, the injuries have us disappointed in our seeding and not in how we missed the tourney. I cannot believe injuries alone got us to this point. It's a perfect storm of chaos and disappointment. Many issues led us here. Many issues that I believe will be resolved before the 2019-2020 season starts. Regarding the list, I find it pretty spot on as far as reasons go. I would swap, 2 and 3, and swap 4 and 5. We could debate injuries have taken shooters off the roster, but we really have no proof of that. 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: I'll split the middle. If we're 17-10 right now and talking about injuries hurting our seed, I'll buy it. But, since we're 13-14, then it's an excuse. The problems on this team go way beyond injuries. If I were to rank our issues when determining why we are not going to the tournament, I would go as follows: 1) Internal friction among members of the team. 2) Lack of perimeter shooting 3} Injuries 4) Coaching 5) Bad Luck 6) Bob Knight has an IU Voodoo Doll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 17 minutes ago, PoHoosier said: Im with Fouls on that one. Injuries have had a huge impact. I believe it's the 2nd biggest issue with this team instead of third. Ideally, the injuries have us disappointed in our seeding and not in how we missed the tourney. I cannot believe injuries alone got us to this point. It's a perfect storm of chaos and disappointment. Many issues led us here. Many issues that I believe will be resolved before the 2019-2020 season starts. Regarding the list, I find it pretty spot on as far as reasons go. I would swap, 2 and 3, and swap 4 and 5. We could debate injuries have taken shooters off the roster, but we really have no proof of that. I disagree. I think without the injuries (not counting Hunter though, because he’s been out all year) IU has somewhere between 4-7 more wins, either of which makes this a tournament team easily. If I was doing the serious items from the list, I would go: 1A) Outside shooting 1B) Injuries 3) Internal friction (though if #1B doesn’t happen and the team wins more, #3 would be greatly minimized The reason I put A/B for the first two is because I think the injuries are the #1 reason IU isn’t a tournament team, I think lack of shooting is the #1 reason IU wasn’t ever going to be as good as we all hoped before the season. Even if healthy this team wouldn’t have the shooting to be a real contender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, BGleas said: I disagree. I think without the injuries (not counting Hunter though, because he’s been out all year) IU has somewhere between 4-7 more wins, either of which makes this a tournament team easily. If I was doing the serious items from the list, I would go: 1A) Outside shooting 1B) Injuries 3) Internal friction (though if #2 doesn’t happen and the team wins more, #3 would be greatly minimized The reason I put A/B for the first two is because I think the injuries are the #1 reason IU isn’t a tournament team, I think lack of shooting is the #1 reason IU wasn’t ever going to be as good as we all hoped before the season. Even if healthy this team wouldn’t have the shooting to be a real contender If you're not counting Jerome, I can't see the injuries to Rob, De'Ron, Race, and Zach being worth 4-7 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Just now, 5fouls said: If you're not counting Jerome, I can't see the injuries to Rob, De'Ron, Race, and Zach being worth 4-7 wins. Why not? Rob was just getting really, really comfortable as the lead guard before his concussion. Even when he came back, he wasn’t the same for a while. Honestly, the last game at Iowa was the first time he looked comfortable since being back. We lost a handful of games (at Maryland being one) in January where a healthy Davis would have made a big difference, and I’ve see enough of Race already to be able to tell that with 25+ games under his belt he would have given Archie options when Smith was playing so bad. It says something that Race is already ahead of Moore and Forrester in the rotation, and was part of the reason (along with Fitzner) that Smith didn’t play at all in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, BGleas said: Why not? Rob was just getting really, really comfortable as the lead guard before his concussion. Even when he came back, he wasn’t the same for a while. Honestly, the last game at Iowa was the first time he looked comfortable since being back. We lost a handful of games (at Maryland being one) in January where a healthy Davis would have made a big difference, and I’ve see enough of Race already to be able to tell that with 25+ games under his belt he would have given Archie options when Smith was playing so bad. It says something that Race is already ahead of Moore and Forrester in the rotation, and was part of the reason (along with Fitzner) that Smith didn’t play at all in the second half. I'm still of the opinion that IU could have overcame the injuries and been solidly in the tournament if they were a team that got along with each other. Now, the outside shooting is not something they could overcome, regardless of who was healthy (with the possible exception of Jerome). That's why I ranked shooting ahead of injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Just now, 5fouls said: I'm still of the opinion that IU could have overcame the injuries and been solidly in the tournament if they were a team that got along with each other. Now, the outside shooting is not something they could overcome, regardless of who was healthy (with the possible exception of Jerome). That's why I ranked shooting ahead of injuries. I just try to stay away from that stuff, because I really have no idea if the players get along or not. Obviously this isn’t a team of passionate guys that play with emotion, but I have no real clue what the interpersonal relationships are like. I agree, the shooting was always going to be a problem and one that couldn’t really be fixed with this roster (outside of Hunter being healthy and being a marksmen, which who really knows on that?). But, the injuries are the one thing that absolutely cost some wins, and with a few more wins sprinkled in this is a tourney team and maybe the alleged personal problems aren’t nearly as bad. Winning has a way of hiding those thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 17 minutes ago, 5fouls said: If you're not counting Jerome, I can't see the injuries to Rob, De'Ron, Race, and Zach being worth 4-7 wins. Couple others: Al's been playing with a hand injury since MSU, and Juwan's 3-20 from 3 since hurting his shoulder against MSU, and hasn't looked the same overall. Wouldn't be surprised if there's some lingering issues there as well. That's 7 of your top rotation guys with significant injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue3542 Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 37 minutes ago, 5fouls said: If you're not counting Jerome, I can't see the injuries to Rob, De'Ron, Race, and Zach being worth 4-7 wins. With a healthy De'Ron alone, we likely would have beat Arkansas, Maryland, and Rutgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 I like this discussion. All pretty valid reasons. Sadly, at this point, it's like we are debating which nail in the coffin is the biggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 I would love to see what this thread would look like if Crean was coaching this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, AxnJxn said: Couple others: Al's been playing with a hand injury since MSU, and Juwan's 3-20 from 3 since hurting his shoulder against MSU, and hasn't looked the same overall. Wouldn't be surprised if there's some lingering issues there as well. That's 7 of your top rotation guys with significant injuries. All excuses........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 32 minutes ago, rico said: All excuses........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 The Hoosiers finished tonight!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 I think what you saw from Thompson last night showed what this team could have had all year if he was healthy. also I think if McRoberts was healthy he could have been the same type of glue guy that Eifert has been for Purdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowhunter Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Thompson’s effort was very productive and promising. He did an excellent job defending and getting his hands on loose balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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