Wisconsin Postgame Thread

[BGleas]

12 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

You don’t sit your 3 most important guys at the same time obviously you have to rest your guys but you don’t trot out line up lacking a PG or at least a dominant scorer. 

He ran out a line up that didn’t have a PG or scorers what a shock the offense went to crap leading to offense for them.  I like Al but at no point should he be the best player on the court. 

Al wasn't the best player on the court, Davis was. Both Al and Green were on the court and Phinisee was being looked at by the medical staff? Who else is he supposed to put in at pg? Morgan was in foul trouble and Langford needed a rest for the stretch run.

Al is a starter, Davis is a starter, Smith has started most of the season and started that game. It's on the players. 

[BGleas]

11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Which A) I think happens less often than you are portraying and B) is fine and dandy if you have the players to still put out coherent line ups. We don’t. 

It happens every game. Wisconsin had a stretch where Happ, Iverson and Trice were all on the bench. So, we're supposed to play Langford, Morgan and Phinisee the entire game? You're also glossing over the fact that Phinisee came out because he needed to be looked at by the medical staff. 

[FW_Hoosier]

Here’s a question that occurred to me... Was this the lowest scoring double OT game in IU history?

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It happens every game. Wisconsin had a stretch where Happ, Iverson and Trice were all on the bench. So, we're supposed to play Langford, Morgan and Phinisee the entire game? You're also glossing over the fact that Phinisee came out because he needed to be looked at by the medical staff. 

Or here’s a thought you rest only 2 starters at a time. You don’t have to rest people at the same time. Coach K since everybody likes to compare Archie to him often only goes 7 deep which means at no point are fewer than 3 starters on the court. 

Im not glossing over the fact that Phinisee was hurt. Archie needs to take that into account and either call another timeout to give the staff time or put some offense back in. Because really there’s not a good reason to take Romeo and Morgan out at the same time anyway. 

So yes the players need rest there’s no rule that it needs to be at the same time. 

[Officer Obie]

5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Here’s a question that occurred to me... Was this the lowest scoring double OT game in IU history?

That's a good question, I don't know. I didn't even know the score when the whole thing was over.

One thing I do know is that I love watching the Hoosiers play defense.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Or here’s a thought you rest only 2 starters at a time. You don’t have to rest people at the same time. Coach K since everybody likes to compare Archie to him often only goes 7 deep which means at no point are fewer than 3 starters on the court. 

Im not glossing over the fact that Phinisee was hurt. Archie needs to take that into account and either call another timeout to give the staff time or put some offense back in. Because really there’s not a good reason to take Romeo and Morgan out at the same time anyway. 

So yes the players need rest there’s no rule that it needs to be at the same time. 

We had 2 starters in the game, three if you count the Smith/Davis combo! Phinisee was hurt and Morgan was in foul trouble. It's not a coaching mistake, it's a players didn't execute thing. Blowing a 13 point lead in 2 minutes is a player thing. It seemed to me the plan was to play through Davis during that stretch, but the issue was Green being a bonehead and not executing it, not Archie making a coaching mistake. 

Langford played 45 out of 50 minutes (same as Wisconsin's best player, Happ). Phinisee played 43 out of 50 minutes. Morgan had foul trouble. You have to be able to trust your guys to not blow a 13 point lead in 2-3 minutes. 

 

[Stromboli]

There's more to it than just an arbitrary rule that you have 3 of 5 starters on the court at all times.  A lot of analytics and coaches follow lineup efficiency, and see which guys play well together.  Let's say our offense is terrible if only Juwan OR Romeo is on the floor, because everyone keys on that guy.  Put them both in, and the defense has to pick their poison.  If CAM left just Juwan out there, he'd just get doubled.  So you take them all out and not waste minutes of Juwan (or Romeo) on the floor that wouldn't be productive.  Lineup changes, especially in the NBA, focus more and more on which players have chemistry and complement each others' games.  I know Archie has talked about this, especially when we had injuries and he couldn't even observe different lineups because there weren't enough bodies. 

 

[Cutter]

2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

milehiiu game ball goes to Bruiser Flint.

And all of you know why. 

I must be the exception probably because I didn't see the game, but why did bruiser get your game ball mile or anyone? 

[13th&Jackson]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

We had 2 starters in the game, three if you count the Smith/Davis combo! Phinisee was hurt and Morgan was in foul trouble. It's not a coaching mistake, it's a players didn't execute thing. Blowing a 13 point lead in 2 minutes is a player thing. It seemed to me the plan was to play through Davis during that stretch, but the issue was Green being a bonehead and not executing it, not Archie making a coaching mistake. 

Langford played 45 out of 50 minutes (same as Wisconsin's best player, Happ). Phinisee played 43 out of 50 minutes. Morgan had foul trouble. You have to be able to trust your guys to not blow a 13 point lead in 2-3 minutes. 

 

Yes, this falls on Green being selfish and uncoachable. In a game where Al, Rob and Romeo all play 40+ minutes and Juwan, Justin and Al foul out, Green only plays 11 minutes and still nearly lost the game single-handedly. I'd love to see the +/- on those 11 minutes.

 

[rico]

My two important takes from last night...

1)  I drank waaaaaaaaaaay too much.

2)  I stayed up waaaaaaaaaaaay too late.

Oh well, had fun with the buds talking IU on the ice this morning.  Nice win for Hoosiernation...

[Brass Cannon]

9 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We had 2 starters in the game, three if you count the Smith/Davis combo! Phinisee was hurt and Morgan was in foul trouble. It's not a coaching mistake, it's a players didn't execute thing. Blowing a 13 point lead in 2 minutes is a player thing. It seemed to me the plan was to play through Davis during that stretch, but the issue was Green being a bonehead and not executing it, not Archie making a coaching mistake. 

Langford played 45 out of 50 minutes (same as Wisconsin's best player, Happ). Phinisee played 43 out of 50 minutes. Morgan had foul trouble. You have to be able to trust your guys to not blow a 13 point lead in 2-3 minutes. 

 

Well Archie needs to quit trusting them because they can’t do it. Rest the guys separately rocket science. 

[The Daily Hoosier]

2 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

19-15 at least gets us caring about the selection show. 20-15 gets us in barring a bunch of conference tourney upsets. 

Look at Lunardi's latest Bracketology.  He has Oklahoma in as a 10 seed.  They are 5-10 in their conference.  It isn't going to take as much as people think, and wins over MSU and Rutgers might make it impossible to keep us out based on the current formula.  I'd think we'd be on the bubble interested in selection day at 16-16 with just those two wins, and anything more I'd actually feel confident.

[BGleas]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Well Archie needs to quit trusting them because they can’t do it. Rest the guys separately rocket science. 

Yeah, Archie sucks. Crazy he can't figure out how to play Phinisee, Langford and Morgan 50 minutes every game. 

[btownqb]

14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, Archie sucks. Crazy he can't figure out how to play Phinisee, Langford and Morgan 50 minutes every game. 

Don't the officials know we can't sub?!?! Stop calling fouls on our guys!!!!

[CTrojan88]

29 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Yes, this falls on Green being selfish and uncoachable. In a game where Al, Rob and Romeo all play 40+ minutes and Juwan, Justin and Al foul out, Green only plays 11 minutes and still nearly lost the game single-handedly. I'd love to see the +/- on those 11 minutes.

 

It falls on Archie for playing Green at all.  He seems to be all about himself and usually does more harm than good when he plays

[cybergates]

30 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Yes, this falls on Green being selfish and uncoachable. In a game where Al, Rob and Romeo all play 40+ minutes and Juwan, Justin and Al foul out, Green only plays 11 minutes and still nearly lost the game single-handedly. I'd love to see the +/- on those 11 minutes.

 

Couldn't find +/-, but did see he had a 40% TO rate, (2 of the team's 12 in just 11 mins). Ouch, and doesn't account for his foul on the 3.

[Steubenhoosier]

1 minute ago, CTrojan88 said:

It falls on Archie for playing Green at all.  He seems to be all about himself and usually does more harm than good when he plays

Because....we have who else to run the point? 

Rob does a great job, but can't be expected to run the offense without a break. Especially, as a freshman and his first run through league play.

Based on how things have played out, we are going to have to play on either 4 or 5 consecutive days in the BTT if we continue to win. I guess you'd like Archie to run these guys into the ground now so they have absolutely nothing left for that.

[BGleas]

30 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Well Archie needs to quit trusting them because they can’t do it. Rest the guys separately rocket science. 

We're definitely not going to agree on this, which is fine as that's what makes these boards fun. But to put on bow on it from my perspective, I guess the issue I have with your take is that this wasn't some boneheaded, 'how could Archie be this dumb after 8 years of coaching', he might not be the guy, mistake. It's not like he didn't know what he was doing.

Phinisee was hurt, Morgan was in foul trouble, and Langford needed a break. Archie took a calculated gamble with a 13-point lead to try and steal some rest for Langford, and his guys (guys that are regular rotation players, along with a few starters) let him down and didn't execute. It's that simple. 

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

44 minutes ago, Cutter said:

I must be the exception probably because I didn't see the game, but why did bruiser get your game ball mile or anyone? 

He made sure the refs reviewed a crucial out of bounds call that they otherwise weren't going to look at.

[Reacher]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Just was wondering about the post game thread and the amount of pages in it.  I was wondering since it is just a 5 pages is it due to the game ending late or was it because we won.  It seems like after losses the number of pages are lot more than after wins.

Late ending and length of the game had an effect. I was exhausted by the end and went right to bed.

[13th&Jackson]

16 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

It falls on Archie for playing Green at all.  He seems to be all about himself and usually does more harm than good when he plays

I couldn't find the exact quote, but one time in a post-game press conference Knight was asked why he made a particular substitution. He said he looked down the bench and didn't see Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. If he had, he would have put him in.

[Reacher]

Morgan led the team with a +20. Next was Al at +6 and Romeo at +4. Green was -5 and Davis -6 (Had the misfortune of being on the court with Green?)

[IU Scott]

19 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

It falls on Archie for playing Green at all.  He seems to be all about himself and usually does more harm than good when he plays

Well he did not play in most of the second half until Durham fouled out and we had no other guard to come in.

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Late ending and length of the game had an effect. I was exhausted by the end and went right to bed.

Yeah I did not come to this board after the game either so that is what I thought was the reason.

[milehiiu]

44 minutes ago, Cutter said:

I must be the exception probably because I didn't see the game, but why did bruiser get your game ball mile or anyone? 

I am glad you asked.  I just don't give game balls just for anything. I thought a lot about this one, in particular. Could have given it to Romeo for the game winner. But why give it to a guy we should expect to drive the lane, instead of throw up a wild 3 pointer ?  I hold Romeo to a higher expectation.  And at least on Tuesday night, he at least met that expectation.  I was tempted to give the game ball to De'Ron.... for performing the way he did, after puking his brains out before and during the start of the game. Or even to Race, for his tremendous defense.  There were others that came into consideration.

I gave the milehi game ball to Bruiser for the following reasons. He saw a wrong call. He never gave up, insisting there be a review. Without getting a T called on him which would have hurt the team at the time. Instead, he was right, which helped the team.  He showed the team, that regardless of what the situation is... never give up. The team learned from him.  Hang in there. Continue to battle. And if you do that... good things can happen.  Bottom line for me.... Bruiser was an INSPIRATION to a team that in the past had issues with confidence.  Bruiser showed to the team he believed in them.  And they GAINED confidence in that.