NBA Thread

[rico]

10 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Meanwhile Durant returns tonight. What a wild Finals it's been.

Go Toronto!!!!!!

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, rico said:

Go Toronto!!!!!!

Two thumbs up.

it’s going to be a really tough game 

[dgambill]

That’s a wrap. GS was looking good with Durant but I think he is done after the injury. Not sure Toronto fans were celebrating his injury or the fact that they now should finish off the Warriors. Could have been such a fun series..oh well maybe they Pacers learn something about taking chances and go all in.

[dgambill]

I’m going to stop predicting things...guess I don’t know anything about basketball. GS loses its best player and starting center and still win. I’d be equally shocked if Toronto doesn’t win this as I was they lost after KD went down. Steph and Klay making it interesting at least we get another game to watch.

[Hoosierhoopster]

Yeah close out games are a bitch. Now it goes back to GS. Still think Toronto wins the series but it ain’t over 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yeah close out games are a bitch. Now it goes back to GS. Still think Toronto wins the series but it ain’t over 

Should have been a wrap until their coach calls a dumb TO and let’s GS regroup. Killed his own teams momentum. Couldn’t believe that.

[dgambill]

Wow...if KD tore his Achilles then he misses next year too. Can’t imagine what New York and everyone else is thinking. That is just crazy...sad. 

[Zlinedavid]

7 hours ago, KDB said:

 

Places that would be better long term destinations for AD than the Knicks or Lakers:

1. Siberia

2. The Pyongyang pickup game between Rodman and Kim Jung-Un.

3. The Saskatchewan Rattlers

[rico]

The Raptors blow it...

[Seeking6]

7 hours ago, dgambill said:

Wow...if KD tore his Achilles then he misses next year too. Can’t imagine what New York and everyone else is thinking. That is just crazy...sad. 

Huge implications on plans for multiple teams and the scenario that makes the most sense now is stay with Golden St, rehab the injury and get paid $31.5M next season. I can't imagine a GM (even for the Knicks) saying yes to huge $ with an injury like that. Probably makes Anthony Davis the main prize this off season followed by Kyrie I guess. Really a shame for KD. Never been a fan but never like seeing injuries.

Regarding game last night. Hats off to GSW...just back to back to back $ shots. 

[Seeking6]

I'll add one more point to the NBA. Have to be some pretty nervous folks at NBA offices and ESPN. Ratings are already down 25% for Finals. Can you imagine if Lakers/Lebron don't get their stuff figured out and now add Kevin Durant. 2 of the games biggest stars out again next year come playoff time? 

[Zlinedavid]

4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I'll add one more point to the NBA. Have to be some pretty nervous folks at NBA offices and ESPN. Ratings are already down 25% for Finals. Can you imagine if Lakers/Lebron don't get their stuff figured out and now add Kevin Durant. 2 of the games biggest stars out again next year come playoff time? 

I think they're worried anyway. Even with KD out, you've still got 3 of the top 10 draws in the game today (Curry/Kawhi/Klay) and ratings are still down. And it's not because of the market sizes of the teams involved. Toronto is bigger than Chicago, and the combined Bay Area is top 10 in North America.

[rico]

6 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I think they're worried anyway. Even with KD out, you've still got 3 of the top 10 draws in the game today (Curry/Kawhi/Klay) and ratings are still down. And it's not because of the market sizes of the teams involved. Toronto is bigger than Chicago, and the combined Bay Area is top 10 in North America.

What is up with that?  The "stars" don't get people to watch?

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I think they're worried anyway. Even with KD out, you've still got 3 of the top 10 draws in the game today (Curry/Kawhi/Klay) and ratings are still down. And it's not because of the market sizes of the teams involved. Toronto is bigger than Chicago, and the combined Bay Area is top 10 in North America.

One thing is that the games start at 9pm on a work night and it is hard for a lot of people to stay up and watch the whole game.  There also could be a lot of fans like me that is not totally invested in the NBA and after their teams are eliminated doesn't watch all of the game.

[Seeking6]

One more thing. I don't know the rules of luxury tax in NBA,etc.....but can Golden St even pay Curry, Klay, Green and now KD if he returns to rehab? Imagine that scenario. Having to pay KD to rehab while letting one of the others potentially walk knowing full well KD will walk after the next season. Am I looking at this incorrectly??

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

I think they're worried anyway. Even with KD out, you've still got 3 of the top 10 draws in the game today (Curry/Kawhi/Klay) and ratings are still down. And it's not because of the market sizes of the teams involved. Toronto is bigger than Chicago, and the combined Bay Area is top 10 in North America.

It's not market size the way you're looking at it. Toronto is not a big market team and especially not on a TV basis.

[dbmhoosier]

1 hour ago, rico said:

What is up with that?  The "stars" don't get people to watch?

I've said for years that the NBA needs a franchise tag like the NFL.  This free agency stuff has become beyond ridiculous.  People just aren't going to care when the vast majority of the teams never have a chance to compete.

[ATX_sig]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

One thing is that the games start at 9pm on a work night and it is hard for a lot of people to stay up and watch the whole game.  There also could be a lot of fans like me that is not totally invested in the NBA and after their teams are eliminated doesn't watch all of the game.

Meh.  I'd rather watch a game that starts at 9 than have to try to rush home for a 5 or 6 PM start. I realize most of the population is in the East time zone but still I don't think this argument holds much water.  I always DVR games with early starts. Actually,  I rarely watch anything live anymore.  Not even Sports.  I'll wait 30-45 minutes to start watching a game and FFWD through commercials. Don't know for sure but TV ratings seem to be based on whose watching live TV.   

[rico]

14 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I've said for years that the NBA needs a franchise tag like the NFL.  This free agency stuff has become beyond ridiculous.  People just aren't going to care when the vast majority of the teams never have a chance to compete.

Interesting thought there.  I actually like it.

[IU Scott]

44 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I've said for years that the NBA needs a franchise tag like the NFL.  This free agency stuff has become beyond ridiculous.  People just aren't going to care when the vast majority of the teams never have a chance to compete.

they might not have the franchise tag but they set it up that the  players current team can give him the most money.  It is called the Bird rights but players today seem like they are willing to leave their current team even though they won't get as much money if they stayed.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

they might not have the franchise tag but they set it up that the  players current team can give him the most money.  It is called the Bird rights but players today seem like they are willing to leave their current team even though they won't get as much money if they stayed.

A twist to this is the idiotic rule that ties the super max deal to making the all star team, which in turn gives sports writers a direct say in whether or not a player gets the super max. Freaking ridiculous. That's what happened with PG, he didn't -- couldn't -- get the big money contract from the Pacers because he wasn't voted onto the all star team that last year. It's a moronic situation.

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

I've said for years that the NBA needs a franchise tag like the NFL.  This free agency stuff has become beyond ridiculous.  People just aren't going to care when the vast majority of the teams never have a chance to compete.

I'd actually argue that the current setup (player movement and flexibility) gives more teams the opportunity to improve and compete quicker. We have about 4 teams (Lakers, Knicks, Clippers, Nets), and I may be forgetting a couple, that have cleared multiple max contract slots with the opportunity at going after maybe the best free agent class ever. Each of those four teams, plus several teams pursuing a trade for AD, have the opportunity to drastically improve their chances in offseason. 

The downside is that despite what we've seen with Golden State, the ability to maintain a contender will get more difficult (ie. the Cavs lost it all in one summer). 

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'd actually argue that the current setup (player movement and flexibility) gives more teams the opportunity to improve and compete quicker. We have about 4 teams (Lakers, Knicks, Clippers, Nets), and I may be forgetting a couple, that have cleared multiple max contract slots with the opportunity at going after maybe the best free agent class ever. Each of those four teams, plus several teams pursuing a trade for AD, have the opportunity to drastically improve their chances in offseason. 

The downside is that despite what we've seen with Golden State, the ability to maintain a contender will get more difficult (ie. the Cavs lost it all in one summer). 

My main problem with player movement in the NBA is that it really helps the major market teams because the top players will more than likely leave smaller market teams.  Yes the Pacers have competed well over the years but it is really hard for a team like that to maintain their success.  The Pacers are good enough to be good but not good enough to really compete for a championship most years.  To me in the NBA you really have to suck for 3-5 years and get great draft picks or be a free agency destination to be a championship caliber team.  teams like the Pacers who are consistently picking 18-23 will get good players but won't get may difference makers that will help you.

[BGleas]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My main problem with player movement in the NBA is that it really helps the major market teams because the top players will more than likely leave smaller market teams.  Yes the Pacers have competed well over the years but it is really hard for a team like that to maintain their success.  The Pacers are good enough to be good but not good enough to really compete for a championship most years.  To me in the NBA you really have to suck for 3-5 years and get great draft picks or be a free agency destination to be a championship caliber team.  teams like the Pacers who are consistently picking 18-23 will get good players but won't get may difference makers that will help you.

The Pacers problem isn't that they're a small market team, it's that they've made bad decisions. If Larry Bird had made better decisions, they would have been able to keep PG and build a better, more competitive team around him. The Knicks, maybe the biggest market team, have been horrible for years and they've had several times where they had cap space but couldn't land the big fish free agent. Toronto has been competitive for years and they're not a free agent destination and they haven't had top 3 picks, but they hired an excellent GM, made smart decisions and then cashed in their chips when they had a chance to, and now they're one game from being the champs. 

OKC had no problem convincing PG to stay, to the point that he didn't even take a meeting with the Lakers. It's because OKC is a well run organization with a smart, proven GM. Look at the Nets, big market for sure, but they've improved quickly without any lottery picks. Why? Smart management, after they dumped the guys that made the crazy trade with the Celtics. 

The Celtics also, while I guess a big market, the Celtics have never been a free agent destination, but look how quickly Danny Ainge made them a contender again after the Pierce, Garnett, Allen run. Most teams would have gone into the dumpster for several years, but the Celtics are well run with a smart executive and they had like one bad year and were quickly back in contention. 

It's all about hiring the right management. There's really only one team in the NBA that really, truly benefits from the "big market" thing, and that's the Lakers. The Lakers are the only team I can think that regardless of the roster, the management, the ownership, etc., etc., can sign an elite free agent no matter what. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by BGleas

[Hoosierhoopster]

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My main problem with player movement in the NBA is that it really helps the major market teams because the top players will more than likely leave smaller market teams.  Yes the Pacers have competed well over the years but it is really hard for a team like that to maintain their success.  The Pacers are good enough to be good but not good enough to really compete for a championship most years.  To me in the NBA you really have to suck for 3-5 years and get great draft picks or be a free agency destination to be a championship caliber team.  teams like the Pacers who are consistently picking 18-23 will get good players but won't get may difference makers that will help you.

I think this is certainly a fair take. The P's have gotten key players, like Regg and PG, in the 10-13 range, and there are great players who for various reasons don't get drafted until later in the 1st or the second (among the many, Ginobli, Parker, Draymond, etc. etc.) but yeah, it's hard for the mid-market / small market teams to build a power house. OKC is an interesting example. At one point it had Westbrook, Harden and Durant. That's crazy. They couldn't keep Harden because there's only so much money, then they lost Durant to GS (for which I have zero respect KD). They did get PG through that whacky situation, but it's against the norm. Philly tanked for years until they finally built a really strong core through the draft, and they're big market. Now they're a destination, but again Philly's a big market city/franchise. The Bucks have built a heck of a team as a small-mid market, through getting Greek Freak, and while they're not a big market, and it's, well, cold there, Milwaukee is becoming a destination team because of what they built. Toronto became a title contender over night by getting Kawhi, but that was also a wacky deal, and most speculate he'll leave after this season. It's not a black and white situation, but I'd agree some rules should be put in place to further protect the rights of the small to mid-market teams.