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33 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I thought it was interesting that Kawhi chose a shorter contract and essentially makes him a free agent again in 2021 class along with George. Seems to me like they are willing to try in Clipper Land but if it doesn't hit during these next two seasons they'll be back at the free agency window again in short order. Maybe just waiting for Lebron to retire and move to Lakers in 2 seasons. Haha.

It has something to do with once you have been in the league 10 years you can sign an even bigger contract.  His next contract will be almost 50 million a year.  

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2 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

I thought it was interesting that Kawhi chose a shorter contract and essentially makes him a free agent again in 2021 class along with George. Seems to me like they are willing to try in Clipper Land but if it doesn't hit during these next two seasons they'll be back at the free agency window again in short order. Maybe just waiting for Lebron to retire and move to Lakers in 2 seasons. Haha.

This is basically the new model. Players are moving to shorter contracts and teams are planning ahead for them. It does put more pressure on the Clippers.

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With the contracts both PG and Kawhi have, it allows them both to sign a supermax or whatever it is as early as 2021 to the MAX money that is available.  Smart by them, risky for the Clippers to put all their eggs in these two especially with the amount of draft picks that were traded for PG.  BUT as long as the Clippers don't fail(I would say the Clippers next two seasons would be viewed as a failure if they do not make at least the WCF's), I could easily see them both resigning with the Clippers in 2021. 

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Westbrook to Houston for Paul and some picks way out in the future plus options on pick swaps.  With those picks so far out in the future, obviously there’s literally zero visibility.   But, it’s always possible some of these picks get liquidated into big time prospects. 

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Of all the insanity, now the apparent trade of Westbrook to the Rockets for CP3 takes cake.

My immediate reaction - this is nuts. But now we get to see if Harden and Westbrook together will work. Color me skeptical for all the reasons above, and for Westbrook’s mediocre outside shooting on a team built on setting records for taking 3’s. But we shall see, the West is beyond crazy.

and the Thunder moving him in conference to a rival for an aging CP3? Oh man 

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9 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Of all the insanity, now the apparent trade of Westbrook to the Rockets for CP3 takes cake.

My immediate reaction - this is nuts. But now we get to see if Harden and Westbrook together will work. Color me skeptical for all the reasons above, and for Westbrook’s mediocre outside shooting on a team built on setting records for taking 3’s. But we shall see, the West is beyond crazy.

and the Thunder moving him in conference to a rival for an aging CP3? Oh man 

I'll just say this. I have no clue what the direction of OKC is besides gathering picks and more picks.Every team in the league places little to no value on picks but OKC has to have at least 12 picks first round picks now over next 5 years.  I'll also add kudos to Houston for trying. This won't work or get them what they want but I applaud their GM for constantly trying. 

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I agree with HH’s point about ball dominance.  Both Harden and Westbrook have that black hole quality although they can get assists. They’d have to adjust.  

As far as shooting versus defense, they may complement each other.  Westbrook can defend athletes at guard and take on that responsibility, allowing Harden to take a second best perimeter player.  On offense, Westbrook can penetrate and draw defenders.  Obviously Harden can stretch.  It’d be tough for any opponent to cover either, let alone both, ends of that. 

Neither guy seems to have that elite level winning gene, so they’d have to adjust for the good of the team.  

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1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I agree with HH’s point about ball dominance.  Both Harden and Westbrook have that black hole quality although they can get assists. They’d have to adjust.  

As far as shooting versus defense, they may complement each other.  Westbrook can defend athletes at guard and take on that responsibility, allowing Harden to take a second best perimeter player.  On offense, Westbrook can penetrate and draw defenders.  Obviously Harden can stretch.  It’d be tough for any opponent to cover either, let alone both, ends of that. 

Neither guy seems to have that elite level winning gene, so they’d have to adjust for the good of the team.  

It's really going to be interesting to watch. 

On the plus side of everything NBA, with all of these trades and what the West is already bringing back, it's going to be pretty amazing to watch next season.

Lakers - LeBron/AD/Kuzma,

Clippers - Kawhi/PG and a ridiculous amount of all-around in your face defense, Beverly, etc.,

Denver - Jokic, Murray, now with Jerami Grant and Michael Porter (expected healthy), along with guys like Barton, Millsap, 

Rockets - the Harden/Westbrook show

Dallas - Porzingis paired with Doncic

Portland - Dame, CJ, Nurkik back, Bazemore for outside shooting

GS - KD gone, Klay out, but added Russell and Caulie-Stein

Spurs - always quietly there, DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray, Belinelli

It's just ridiculous

 

 

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3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It's really going to be interesting to watch. 

On the plus side of everything NBA, with all of these trades and what the West is already bringing back, it's going to be pretty amazing to watch next season.

Lakers - LeBron/AD/Kuzma,

Clippers - Kawhi/PG and a ridiculous amount of all-around in your face defense, Beverly, etc.,

Denver - Jokic, Murray, now with Jerami Grant and Michael Porter (expected healthy), along with guys like Barton, Millsap, 

Rockets - the Harden/Westbrook show

Dallas - Porzingis paired with Doncic

Portland - Dame, CJ, Nurkik back, Bazemore for outside shooting

GS - KD gone, Klay out, but added Russell and Caulie-Stein

Spurs - always quietly there, DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray, Belinelli

It's just ridiculous

 

 

You forgot the Suns.  :coffee:

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OKC is trying to pull a Celtics style rebuild. Notice these picks aren’t for next year etc...they are mostly 4-5 years out when the Clippers and Rockets would likely have lost their stars and drop in talent. They still plan to flip Paul at some point it appears. I still think the team desperate to make a move or risk losing its star is Minnesota. KAT won’t wait for too long missing the post season until he like Davis forces his way to a big market. I think trade Wiggins plus expiring in Teague plus more draft picks with Culver their future should pretty well work and that would allow Minnesota to upgrade at the point and have KAT, Covington, and Paul a good nucleus. I also think Paul would fit well with the Nuggets but his contract would kill their cap but think his veteran leadership would work well with their young stars. Trade Harris and their trade exceptions that equal 18 million and that would probably do it plus a pick or two. Anyways OKC is setting up to have a ton of lottery picks in about 5 years and could do a massive rebuild or trade those for quality players....question is can Presti keep his job long enough to use the picks.

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Early ranking of NBA teams after all the trades, by espn:

1. Bucks

2. Nuggets

3. Clippers

4. Sixers

5. Rockets

6. Lakers

7. Celtics

8. Portland

9. Jazz

10. Raptors

11. GS

12. Nets

13. Spurs

14. Heat

15. Pacers....

Thoughts? The West is insane and hard to predict, but imo Jazz are too low, Rockets are too high, Celtics probably too high, Pacers are very much overlooked, Heat are too high, Raps are too high withou Kawhi.

Edit -- link: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27189056/league-best-teams-now

 

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38 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Early ranking of NBA teams after all the trades, by espn:

1. Bucks

2. Nuggets

3. Clippers

4. Sixers

5. Rockets

6. Lakers

7. Celtics

8. Portland

9. Jazz

10. Raptors

11. GS

12. Nets

13. Spurs

14. Heat

15. Pacers....

Thoughts? The West is insane and hard to predict, but imo Jazz are too low, Rockets are too high, Celtics probably too high, Pacers are very much overlooked, Heat are too high, Raps are too high withou Kawhi.

Jazz should be ahead of both Portland and Rockets.  Raptors and Heat are too high. 

 

West: Nuggets/Clippers/Jazz/Lakers/Portland/Rockets/GS/Spurs

East: Bucks/Sixers/Nets/Pacers/Celtics/Heat/Raptors

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14 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Jazz should be ahead of both Portland and Rockets.  Raptors and Heat are too high. 

 

West: Nuggets/Clippers/Jazz/Lakers/Portland/Rockets/GS/Spurs

East: Bucks/Sixers/Nets/Pacers/Celtics/Heat/Raptors

I agree. Among others, you have teams like Dallas (now with Porzingis) who could push their way into the conversation. If Conley's healthy, the Jazz should be significantly better, and they're already good. I'm not buying in to Miami with Butler either. With the Pacers, it's fair in that they're expected to be missing Vic for an extended period, but they obviously did well with who they added, and presumably Vic will be back mid-season or so. Pacers, imo, should be in the top 10 discussion. 

Also, I wouldn't put Bucks at #1. 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Early ranking of NBA teams after all the trades, by espn:

1. Bucks

2. Nuggets

3. Clippers

4. Sixers

5. Rockets

6. Lakers

7. Celtics

8. Portland

9. Jazz

10. Raptors

11. GS

12. Nets

13. Spurs

14. Heat

15. Pacers....

Thoughts? The West is insane and hard to predict, but imo Jazz are too low, Rockets are too high, Celtics probably too high, Pacers are very much overlooked, Heat are too high, Raps are too high withou Kawhi.

Clippers should be #1 by a landslide.

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2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Early ranking of NBA teams after all the trades, by espn:

1. Bucks

2. Nuggets

3. Clippers

4. Sixers

5. Rockets

6. Lakers

7. Celtics

8. Portland

9. Jazz

10. Raptors

11. GS

12. Nets

13. Spurs

14. Heat

15. Pacers....

Thoughts? The West is insane and hard to predict, but imo Jazz are too low, Rockets are too high, Celtics probably too high, Pacers are very much overlooked, Heat are too high, Raps are too high withou Kawhi.

Edit -- link: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27189056/league-best-teams-now

 

Too high: Bucks, Rockets, Celtics, Raptors, Nets, Heat

Too low: Clippers, Jazz, GS (assuming Klay comes back ready to go midseason), Pacers

If Durant is out the entire year I'm not sure the Nets are better than they were last season? Is DeAndre Jordan an upgrade over Jarrett Allen at this point? I almost think they downgraded at that position, and then they lost several other glue guys like Dudley. I think they lost 7-8 guys from last seasons surprising team. 

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3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Too high: Bucks, Rockets, Celtics, Raptors, Nets, Heat

Too low: Clippers, Jazz, GS (assuming Klay comes back ready to go midseason), Pacers

If Durant is out the entire year I'm not sure the Nets are better than they were last season? Is DeAndre Jordan an upgrade over Jarrett Allen at this point? I almost think they downgraded at that position, and then they lost several other glue guys like Dudley. I think they lost 7-8 guys from last seasons surprising team. 

Agree, and the Nets won't be sneaking up on anyone this year. I tend to think they'll finish worse.

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Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

Agree, and the Nets won't be sneaking up on anyone this year. I tend to think they'll finish worse.

Add to it that, Russell played in 81 games last season, Kyrie hasn't played in 75 (actually his career high) since the '14-15 season. 

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4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Celtics will be better than last year.  Addition by subtraction with Kyrie.  Will miss Horford, but every night will be Taco night.

I would be all-in on the Celtics being better, its just the Horford loss is tough to ignore. I'm not sure if Kanter and the french guy they signed can make up for the loss? I do think Kemba is an upgrade over Kyrie and with Kyrie's loss we'll see Tatum and Brown back on track. I also think Hayward will be back closer to his old form, but the Celtics are for now thin on the inside and really young. 

I don't think Tako makes the squad, but I could be wrong. 

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36 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Add to it that, Russell played in 81 games last season, Kyrie hasn't played in 75 (actually his career high) since the '14-15 season. 

And Kyrie will continue to play as the Alpha. 

Kyrie hadn't accomplished anything with Cleveland until LeBron joined him, and he was no longer the leader of the team. Then he left and effectively worsened Boston. He's clearly, individually, an extreme talent. But he's not a franchise player, he needs a lead guy, LeBron, now Durant. They could be very good the following season assuming Durant returns healthy and close to old form. I don't see this working this season, though.

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