NBA Thread

[5fouls]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

^^ Isn't Robert Williams the guy who kept getting into trouble, not showing up for practice, etc.? I may be confusing him with someone else, that's my recollection, and that he had the same issues in college. If I'm thinking of the same guy, he has boatloads of potential, and if Stevens can get him focused and on track, he can be really good.

That's him.  Not good, although he has not forced two teams to trade him yet.  

[BADGERVOL]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Too high: Bucks, Rockets, Celtics, Raptors, Nets, Heat

Too low: Clippers, Jazz, GS (assuming Klay comes back ready to go midseason), Pacers

If Durant is out the entire year I'm not sure the Nets are better than they were last season? Is DeAndre Jordan an upgrade over Jarrett Allen at this point? I almost think they downgraded at that position, and then they lost several other glue guys like Dudley. I think they lost 7-8 guys from last seasons surprising team. 

Based on your suggestions who’s your top 10 then?

i always get confused over these rankings also because I assume they mean how good they’ll be out of the gates, and not what they necessarily mean they’ll end up at seasons end.

[BGleas]

17 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

^^ Isn't Robert Williams the guy who kept getting into trouble, not showing up for practice, etc.? I may be confusing him with someone else, that's my recollection, and that he had the same issues in college. If I'm thinking of the same guy, he has boatloads of potential, and if Stevens can get him focused and on track, he can be really good.

Yes, that's him. He actually missed the flight to Boston for his introductory press conference the morning after being drafted, and has had some other issues with tardiness, etc. Those were the kind of things that caused him to drop in the draft. A lot of people said his talent was lottery worthy, just had to get his head on straight. It was worth the gamble at #27. If he can get things figured out, and as you said Stevens is one of the best to do it, then he could develop similar to Jarrett Allen with Brooklyn, if not even better. 

Williams has credited Horford and Baynes with helping him last season with maturity, but ultimately the proof with be in the pudding. If he can get his head on straight the sky is the limit for him. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

37 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

That's him.  Not good, although he has not forced two teams to trade him yet.  

Oh you mean like Durant. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

41 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yes, that's him. He actually missed the flight to Boston for his introductory press conference the morning after being drafted, and has had some other issues with tardiness, etc. Those were the kind of things that caused him to drop in the draft. A lot of people said his talent was lottery worthy, just had to get his head on straight. It was worth the gamble at #27. If he can get things figured out, and as you said Stevens is one of the best to do it, then he could develop similar to Jarrett Allen with Brooklyn, if not even better. 

Williams has credited Horford and Baynes with helping him last season with maturity, but ultimately the proof with be in the pudding. If he can get his head on straight the sky is the limit for him. 

Yeah, sounds good to me. Hilarious that a guy would actually miss his introductory press conference (my read -- he partied that night). But yes that's the guy I was remembering, boatloads of talent, with questions of maturity and focus.

[dgambill]

7 hours ago, BGleas said:

Yes, I know he is still on the team, but how is a young, developing player going to to react to coming off the bench, after starting 80 games last season, because the team went out and splurged on a veteran on the backside of his career who's numbers are about the same? Especially when the signing was basically to appease Kyrie and Durant. 

I wouldn’t even be surprised to see Allen start...why do you think he will sit? Jordan is there to guard Embid and other traditional centers like Drummond who Allen has struggled against. Jordan is older...they both avg about 26 minutes a game last year and old bigs will need their minutes monitored..Jordan won’t effect Allen as much as you think. I agree Jordan wasn’t necessary but sometimes you look at who you have to go through in the playoffs and Embid at Philly will be a tough out who aren’t going anywhere. Nothing wrong with some more veteran leadership. Could they have used that for someone else...sure but the team has wing players...a big 4/5 was always going to be the need.

[dgambill]

How do the Celtics guard Embid in the post? Baynes/Horford will be missed terribly on defense and the boards...not to mention Morris too. They lost a lot of toughness....but perhaps Celtics go small ball and just try to run people into the ground with Kemba, Tatum, Gordon, Brown, and Kanter. They should have some nice bench help with a spark plug like Edwards off the bench to pair with a defender like Smart and Romeo and Williams on the wings. I just think they didn’t address their bigs sufficient enough but who knows...they still have trade chips to flip for a better big.

[dwtaylor1055]

Based on BetOnline.ag, here are the over/under for win totals this upcoming season as of today(top 8/9 teams in each conference) below:

East:

Mil 54.5

Philly 53.5

Ind 48.5

Bos 48.5

Nets 45.5

Raptors 45.5

Miami 42.5

Orl 41.5

 

West:

LAC 55.5

UTAH 52.5

LAL 51.5

HOU  51.5

DEN 50.5

GSW 47.5

Blazers 44.5

Spurs 43.5

DAL 41.5

 

I think the Pacers can be a 3 seed if they can play well until Vic returns AND Vic returns close or to full strength.  I think the Pacers and Celtics will battle for the 3 and 4 seed this year with Brooklyn being the 5 seed. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by dwtaylor1055

[Hoosierhoopster]

6 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Based on BetOnline.ag, here are the over/under for win totals this upcoming season as of today(top 8/9 teams in each conference) below:

East:

Mil 54.5

Philly 53.5

Ind 48.5

Bos 48.5

Nets 45.5

Raptors 45.5

Miami 42.5

Orl 41.5

 

West:

LAC 55.5

UTAH 52.5

LAL 51.5

HOU  51.5

DEN 50.5

GSW 47.5

Blazers 44.5

Spurs 43.5

DAL 41.5

 

I think the Pacers can be a 3 seed if they can play well until Vic returns AND Vic returns close or to full strength.  I think the Pacers and Celtics will battle for the 3 and 4 seed this year with Brooklyn being the 5 seed. 

Agree on the P's.

Think Betonline has Denver too low. They're going to be very, very good. Otherwise looks pretty solid. The Philly v Bucks win column will be interesting to follow. They are the clear EC favorites.

[dwtaylor1055]

17 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Agree on the P's.

Think Betonline has Denver too low. They're going to be very, very good. Otherwise looks pretty solid. The Philly v Bucks win column will be interesting to follow. They are the clear EC favorites.

Agree.  Denver I think is too low. 

Bucks top 5 guys - Giannis/Middleton/Bledsoe/Lopez/George Hill

76ers top 5 guys - Embiid/Simmons/Harris/Horford/Richardson

 

Giannis is the best player in the East.  The 76ers then have the 2nd, 3rd and 4th and maybe even 5th best players out of these two teams.  Will be very interesting to watch these two battle it out for the top two spots as well as spots 3 through 6.  Factor in the Pacers(Assuming Oladipo is back to full strength) and Celtics in the equation below and it gets real interesting.  Bucks clearly have the best player in the East.  I have highlighted what I think is the top two players on each team.  One can argue Turner instead of Brogdon. 

Bucks top 5 guys - Giannis/Middleton/Bledsoe/Lopez/George Hill

76ers top 5 guys - Embiid/Simmons/Harris/Horford/Richardson

Celtics top 5 guys - Walker/Tatum/Hayward/Brown/Kanter

Pacers top 5 guys - Oladipo/Brogdon/Turner/Sabonis/Lamb

[Hoosierhoopster]

12 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Agree.  Denver I think is too low. 

Bucks top 5 guys - Giannis/Middleton/Bledsoe/Lopez/George Hill

76ers top 5 guys - Embiid/Simmons/Harris/Horford/Richardson

 

Giannis is the best player in the East.  The 76ers then have the 2nd, 3rd and 4th and maybe even 5th best players out of these two teams.  Will be very interesting to watch these two battle it out for the top two spots as well as spots 3 through 6.  Factor in the Pacers(Assuming Oladipo is back to full strength) and Celtics in the equation below and it gets real interesting.  Bucks clearly have the best player in the East.  I have highlighted what I think is the top two players on each team.  One can argue Turner instead of Brogdon. 

Bucks top 5 guys - Giannis/Middleton/Bledsoe/Lopez/George Hill

76ers top 5 guys - Embiid/Simmons/Harris/Horford/Richardson

Celtics top 5 guys - Walker/Tatum/Hayward/Brown/Kanter

Pacers top 5 guys - Oladipo/Brogdon/Turner/Sabonis/Lamb

The Bucks / Sixers discussion is going to be a good one all year, imo. Agree that Greek Freak is the best player in the EC, but his limited outside shooting is a crutch, as Toronto demonstrated. Embiid, imo, could be the best player in the East. His health/fitness/strength has limited him, as has his relatively limited playoff experience, but as wacky as he is, there are games where he plays at a level worthy of top player in the league discussion (no, that's Kawhi, but still, the dude can be so dominant).

I'm not sure between Simmons and Horford, or even Tobias. Simmons lack of shooting, and really even working on shooting, is even more of a crutch than it is for Giannis, imo. Horford's age takes him down, but imo he's a better all around player, but for his age. That's just my take though.

I have to think the C's will make another move or two. That product is probably unfinished. At this point, P's look like #3 to me.

 

[dwtaylor1055]

26 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

The Bucks / Sixers discussion is going to be a good one all year, imo. Agree that Greek Freak is the best player in the EC, but his limited outside shooting is a crutch, as Toronto demonstrated. Embiid, imo, could be the best player in the East. His health/fitness/strength has limited him, as has his relatively limited playoff experience, but as wacky as he is, there are games where he plays at a level worthy of top player in the league discussion (no, that's Kawhi, but still, the dude can be so dominant).

I'm not sure between Simmons and Horford, or even Tobias. Simmons lack of shooting, and really even working on shooting, is even more of a crutch than it is for Giannis, imo. Horford's age takes him down, but imo he's a better all around player, but for his age. That's just my take though.

I have to think the C's will make another move or two. That product is probably unfinished. At this point, P's look like #3 to me.

 

Yeah Giannis could be so much better if he ever develops outside shooting.  If he could become a respectable outside shooter oh my that is scary just thinking about.  One could argue that Embiid could be the 2nd best player in the East if not the first best player if his health/fitness/strength could improve like you mentioned. 

Simmons is a really great player but if he struggles with shooting outside of 7 ft from the rim I cannot imagine giving some $170 mil across 5 years. 

[IU Scott]

Just now, dwtaylor1055 said:

Yeah Giannis could be so much better if he ever develops outside shooting.  If he could become a respectable outside shooter oh my that is scary just thinking about.  One could argue that Embiid could be the 2nd best player in the East if not the first best player if his health/fitness/strength could improve like you mentioned. 

Simmons is a really great player but if he struggles with shooting outside of 7 ft from the rim I cannot imagine giving some $170 mil across 5 years. 

to me Simmons is one of the most over rated players in the NBA

[dwtaylor1055]

13 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

to me Simmons is one of the most over rated players in the NBA

I could easily see why people think that.  If Giannis doesn't improve his outside shooting he may fall into that trap as well to some extent

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

to me Simmons is one of the most over rated players in the NBA

This is probably fair -- like I said his lack of shooting is a real crutch and, to me, he hasn't shown much in the way of at least WORKING on it. I mean, he could be playing in the summer league but, probably for ego reasons, he isn't. So far in the regular season, he hasn't shown much development in his shooting, and that obviously limits his game as a point guard. Aside from his shooting, however, he is an outstanding player, extremely versatile, and a real matchup problem. IF he gets his shooting going -- a big if -- he can be an extremely effective point guard.

[BobSaccamanno]

2 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Agree.  Denver I think is too low. 

Bucks top 5 guys - Giannis/Middleton/Bledsoe/Lopez/George Hill

76ers top 5 guys - Embiid/Simmons/Harris/Horford/Richardson

 

Giannis is the best player in the East.  The 76ers then have the 2nd, 3rd and 4th and maybe even 5th best players out of these two teams.  Will be very interesting to watch these two battle it out for the top two spots as well as spots 3 through 6.  Factor in the Pacers(Assuming Oladipo is back to full strength) and Celtics in the equation below and it gets real interesting.  Bucks clearly have the best player in the East.  I have highlighted what I think is the top two players on each team.  One can argue Turner instead of Brogdon. 

Bucks top 5 guys - Giannis/Middleton/Bledsoe/Lopez/George Hill

76ers top 5 guys - Embiid/Simmons/Harris/Horford/Richardson

Celtics top 5 guys - Walker/Tatum/Hayward/Brown/Kanter

Pacers top 5 guys - Oladipo/Brogdon/Turner/Sabonis/Lamb

Good summary.  I would quibble with the Sixers having the second, third, fourth, and fifth best players on the two teams. Second, sure. As for third, Khris Middleton is an all star and a very good two way player.  I just don't know what you're getting out of Philly's backcourt in terms of shooting.  That might be too easy to defend in the playoffs. I don't think Philly wins the East without Simmons taking a big step forward, which he has not shown any ability to do at this point.  Richardson was a good get but they still lack shooters.

That "wall" Toronto put up on Giannis was impressive.  One issue there is whether Milwaukee gets another shooter so that Giannis can kick it out if he deals with that wall again.

Regarding  Boston, I am not a fan of Kanter.  Very soft and doesn't bring physicality, defense, rebounding etc.  I am surprised Stevens would sign off on that one as he doesn't seem like a Stevens player.  Their inside game may be a limiting factor, although I love the coach and think Walker is outstanding.

Indiana is under-rated.  We will see where Oladipo is after the injury.  Sometimes it is really the second season back that you can do some damage.  In terms of team ball, there's hardly anyone better.  That's a heck of a complementary roster.

I could see Toronto in the mix with the Miamis and New Jerseys of the world toward the bottom of the East's playoff list.  Siakam is coming on and they have some players with a winning mindset.  

 

[Hoosierhoopster]

5 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

 

I could see Toronto in the mix with the Miamis and New Jerseys of the world toward the bottom of the East's playoff list.  Siakam is coming on and they have some players with a winning mindset.  

 

And OG will be back. I'm very interested to see how he develops going forward. He had to deal with a lot this past season, his rookie season showed that his ceiling is really high. I'd expect him to show a lot of growth this coming season.

[BobSaccamanno]

I couldn't agree more on OG.  I think he's built to play both ways in the NBA.  And he plays with toughness.

[ATX_sig]

I really don't see Romeo getting much in the way of minutes with Brown, Hayward and Tatum on he roster plus Smart will play a lot at SG with Kemba on the team.  I feel at some point the Celtics likely trade Hayward to strengthen other positions and balance the roster.   I think relying on rookies Williams, Romeo and Edwards makes for a weak bench for a team that has such high expectations. They may also have to rely on their 2nd year big Robert Williams which just adds to an inexperienced bench and he is kind of knucklehead.   Of course injuries change things up a lot but I expect Romeo gets a development year for the most part.   Murray, White and Walker all spent their rookie year primarily on Austin for the Spurs and look to be quite a trio heading into this season.   . After watching Kanter in the playoffs for Portland, I wouldn't call him soft.  He may not be the best defender but he is pretty solid offensively.  I think he rebounds well.  At least his stats show he does. His PER has typically been in the 20's which really solid.   

I guess it depends on how Simmons is rated if he is considered overrated. IMO, he is an All Star player.  At least he doesn't jack up 3's he cannot make and his PER has been pretty good at 20 in each of first 2 years.   He is a solid defender.  Whether he gives effort on that side of the ball all the time, I don't know since I don't follow all their games.  IMO, playing him at PG is not the best idea.. Just let him run the show from the forward spots.  I also think he needs to fix his FT % before worrying about the 3. I think on one of the summer league telecasts, they were discussing how the 3 point line should be moved back being something that might likely pick up steam in the next couple of years.  Improving his mid range game and drawing fouls to get to the line would make him much more a weapon offensively if he shot 80% not 60% from the line.   Simmons has played 80 regular season games and 10 playoff games each of the last 2 seasons.  I would not play him in the summer league risking injury.  He can work on strength, conditioning and shooting with out playing summer league games. 

I really like Denver.  The playoff experience they received this year will be invaluable moving forward. Their young players will only get better. 

I'd like to thank the powers to be who put Westbrook and Harden on the same team.  Now I only have despise one team in the league. LOL. I think OKC may be better than many think. Adams, Gallo and CP3 with SGA is a pretty good core.   I thought the Grant trade was strange. He seemed like such a good fit with those other 4 as starters.   

[rico]

From NBC...

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/07/15/nba-power-rankings-after-wildest-summer-in-league-history/

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, rico said:

From NBC...

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/07/15/nba-power-rankings-after-wildest-summer-in-league-history/

Another interesting ranking.

Nuggets are getting disrespected, imo. They're too low.

P's at #11 strikes me as fair. Vic's return, assuming full health, should make them a top 3 EC team.

The Harden/Westbrook show is going to be something. Something, but I'm not sure what. They could be really good, or it could just not work, or maybe it works some nights and not others. In that regard, the Thunder were really coming on last season before PG's shoulder issues/injuries. If Westbrook defers outside shooting to Harden/Gordon, they may shine. Stopping two of the best attacking guards will be hard for anyone. But the Rockets are a three-point shooting team and Westbrook is not a good shooter, and both want the ball. It will be -- something.

Philly is going to really miss Redick. They're big, they're very good, but how much will the lack of outside shooting hurt? 

Bucks -- how much will Giannis improve? The guy is one of the hardest working players in the League, and he's a complete freak of nature. But they lost Brog (to the P's delight), that's a big loss, imo. Giannis will have to develop his outside game. 

[Stlboiler23]

I really hope Vic can come back and play at the same level he was playing at. I was at the game where he got hurt and man you could hear a pin drop. I stopped caring a long time ago that he played at IU because the dude plays his ass off and is a hell of a player for my favorite NBA team. Hoping to a full recovery and hopefully back before Christmas. 

[5 championships]

1 hour ago, Stlboiler23 said:

I really hope Vic can come back and play at the same level he was playing at. I was at the game where he got hurt and man you could hear a pin drop. I stopped caring a long time ago that he played at IU because the dude plays his ass off and is a hell of a player for my favorite NBA team. Hoping to a full recovery and hopefully back before Christmas. 

I don’t think will ever see the same Vic at least not this year but im hoping for the best.

Edited July 17, 2019 by 5 championships

[Billingsley99]

20 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

I don’t think will ever see the same Vic at least not this year but im hoping for the best.

Vic is the 1 guy I would never bet against. I as well hope he comes back better than ever but this injury with his playing style is unchartered territory.

[5fouls]

Challenge for everyone.

Rank the impact next season of the  4 superstars residing in Los Angeles.  I'm talking about, in no particular order about LeBron, Unibrow, Kawhi, and Paulie George.

Anyone consider LeBron to be #4 in that ranking?