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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm going to take Toronto against the Clippers; much easier call after tonights games than when you made it. Toronto has the coaching edge (which is saying something, but Brad is at best the third best remaining coach in the East IMO) and the best leader on the floor. 

I'll definitely disagree with you on who the best shooting team is. I'd say the Clippers are behind the Heat, Celts and Raptors by a good margin. 

Just talking current shooting percentages as to best shooting team in the playoffs. Going into last night’s game I am pretty sure it was the clips, not the others. 
Clips of course then laid an egg last night, Kawhi had his first bad game in this playoffs. Denver is no slouch, but I think Clips will bounce back. 

Here you go -- 

For some reason the chart won't populate well, #1 below is the Clippers in playoffs. 
Highest scoring team, best FG%, and 3d in 3-pt perentage (behind Utah and interestingly, Denver. The Heat are 4th.). And this is with PG having that streak of 3 straight horrible games, and he's still not shooting up to his usual. 
 
GP
PTS FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OR DR REB AST STL BLK TO PF
8
122.6
44.4
89.1
49.8
12.9
33.0
39.0
21.0
26.4
79.6
10.0
36.9
46.9
21.3
7.3
3.4
13.0
23.5
6
117.0
42.2
89.2
47.3
13.5
37.5
36.0
19.2
26.5
72.3
7.7
35.5
43.2
21.5
6.5
3.7
12.7
22.5
6
113.8
41.5
87.5
47.4
11.8
35.5
33.3
19.0
26.5
71.7
12.0
35.2
47.2
24.7
8.7
6.3
15.3
22.3
7
113.4
39.9
81.9
48.7
15.7
37.3
42.1
18.0
23.3
77.3
9.3
31.9
41.1
21.4
6.1
3.1
12.0
19.0
7
113.0
37.3
80.9
46.1
14.1
36.6
38.7
24.3
30.3
80.2
9.3
35.7
45.0
23.7
8.3
4.1
13.6
18.7
8
112.8
40.3
89.0
45.2
15.3
41.0
37.2
17.0
22.1
76.8
8.1
37.5
45.6
26.9
7.4
5.1
12.4
21.8
8
112.4
40.4
86.0
46.9
14.1
37.9
37.3
17.5
24.4
71.8
9.0
38.5
47.5
24.8
6.9
4.1
15.8
21.8
8
110.6
39.4
89.5
44.0
17.8
49.5
35.9
14.1
17.8
79.6
7.0
36.0
43.0
21.1
9.8
3.8
13.1
22.5
9
108.6
39.7
86.3
45.9
14.4
36.4
39.6
14.8
18.2
81.1
11.1
31.0
42.1
21.4
5.8
4.9
12.3
21.4
8
107.4
37.4
82.8
45.2
12.1
35.1
34.5
20.5
25.3
81.2
7.6
36.9
44.5
19.8
6.6
5.5
13.9
21.9
5
107.0
37.2
88.6
42.0
15.0
39.8
37.7
17.6
21.0
83.8
6.6
36.4
43.0
23.8
6.8
3.2
14.6
21.0
5
106.6
37.6
88.2
42.6
11.6
30.6
37.9
19.8
25.0
79.2
9.8
33.0
42.8
17.8
7.4
3.6
16.0
25.0
4
105.8
36.3
91.3
39.7
15.5
46.0
33.7
17.8
24.5
72.4
9.3
35.0
44.3
25.8
5.0
4.5
14.5
21.3
7
104.0
36.7
85.4
43.0
12.0
36.6
32.8
18.6
24.0
77.4
9.0
40.9
49.9
17.9
5.3
4.0
17.0
17.1
4
100.8
36.5
80.3
45.5
12.0
32.0
37.5
15.8
20.3
77.8
5.8
30.8
36.5
22.5
9.3
5.5
15.3
23.3
4
100.5
33.3
84.0
39.6
8.0
30.3
26.4
26.0
32.0
81.3
12.3
33.8
46.0
17.5
5.0
4.5
12.0
22.3

Don’t know on Toronto- Boston. I thought Toronto would get it’s shooting back, their stars have been shooting poorly, and they are a complete team, but Boston is strong and I think the better team. Should be a really good remaining series 

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Just talking current shooting percentages as to best shooting team in the playoffs. Going into last night’s game I am pretty sure it was the clips, not the others. 
Clips of course then laid an egg last night, Kawhi had his first bad game in this playoffs. Denver is no slouch, but I think Clips will bounce back. 

Here you go -- 

For some reason the chart won't populate well, #1 below is the Clippers in playoffs. 
Highest scoring team, best FG%, and 3d in 3-pt perentage (behind Utah and interestingly, Denver. The Heat are 4th.). And this is with PG having that streak of 3 straight horrible games, and he's still not shooting up to his usual. 
 
GP
PTS FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OR DR REB AST STL BLK TO PF
8
122.6
44.4
89.1
49.8
12.9
33.0
39.0
21.0
26.4
79.6
10.0
36.9
46.9
21.3
7.3
3.4
13.0
23.5
6
117.0
42.2
89.2
47.3
13.5
37.5
36.0
19.2
26.5
72.3
7.7
35.5
43.2
21.5
6.5
3.7
12.7
22.5
6
113.8
41.5
87.5
47.4
11.8
35.5
33.3
19.0
26.5
71.7
12.0
35.2
47.2
24.7
8.7
6.3
15.3
22.3
7
113.4
39.9
81.9
48.7
15.7
37.3
42.1
18.0
23.3
77.3
9.3
31.9
41.1
21.4
6.1
3.1
12.0
19.0
7
113.0
37.3
80.9
46.1
14.1
36.6
38.7
24.3
30.3
80.2
9.3
35.7
45.0
23.7
8.3
4.1
13.6
18.7
8
112.8
40.3
89.0
45.2
15.3
41.0
37.2
17.0
22.1
76.8
8.1
37.5
45.6
26.9
7.4
5.1
12.4
21.8
8
112.4
40.4
86.0
46.9
14.1
37.9
37.3
17.5
24.4
71.8
9.0
38.5
47.5
24.8
6.9
4.1
15.8
21.8
8
110.6
39.4
89.5
44.0
17.8
49.5
35.9
14.1
17.8
79.6
7.0
36.0
43.0
21.1
9.8
3.8
13.1
22.5
9
108.6
39.7
86.3
45.9
14.4
36.4
39.6
14.8
18.2
81.1
11.1
31.0
42.1
21.4
5.8
4.9
12.3
21.4
8
107.4
37.4
82.8
45.2
12.1
35.1
34.5
20.5
25.3
81.2
7.6
36.9
44.5
19.8
6.6
5.5
13.9
21.9
5
107.0
37.2
88.6
42.0
15.0
39.8
37.7
17.6
21.0
83.8
6.6
36.4
43.0
23.8
6.8
3.2
14.6
21.0
5
106.6
37.6
88.2
42.6
11.6
30.6
37.9
19.8
25.0
79.2
9.8
33.0
42.8
17.8
7.4
3.6
16.0
25.0
4
105.8
36.3
91.3
39.7
15.5
46.0
33.7
17.8
24.5
72.4
9.3
35.0
44.3
25.8
5.0
4.5
14.5
21.3
7
104.0
36.7
85.4
43.0
12.0
36.6
32.8
18.6
24.0
77.4
9.0
40.9
49.9
17.9
5.3
4.0
17.0
17.1
4
100.8
36.5
80.3
45.5
12.0
32.0
37.5
15.8
20.3
77.8
5.8
30.8
36.5
22.5
9.3
5.5
15.3
23.3
4
100.5
33.3
84.0
39.6
8.0
30.3
26.4
26.0
32.0
81.3
12.3
33.8
46.0
17.5
5.0
4.5
12.0
22.3

Don’t know on Toronto- Boston. I thought Toronto would get it’s shooting back, their stars have been shooting poorly, and they are a complete team, but Boston is strong and I think the better team. Should be a really good remaining series 

If you're just looking at the playoffs that's a pretty small sample size, and the Clippers have benefited from playing two bad defensive teams. 

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

If you're just looking at the playoffs that's a pretty small sample size, and the Clippers have benefited from playing two bad defensive teams. 

My comment you quoted earlier was specifically best shooting team and best defensive team "in the playoffs." That's exactly what I was saying. 

I wouldn't be dismissive based on who they've played, they're obviously a very good shooting / scoring team overall, and they've been missing key players, Beverly and Harrell and earlier Lou W and PG again has been really off. 

For 2019-20, they're 4th overall in scoring on the season at 116.3 per game (behind Bucks, Houston and Dallas). 6th in 3% and 12th in FG%. That's of course disregarding that they've only played their full lineup together like 12 times all season (and lost 1 game). The C's were 13th in 3-point percentage. Miami was 2d, Toronto 5th. In FG% Miami was the only one of those ahead of the Clips, at 10th, Boston was 17th, Toronto 20th. I think you're undervaluing the Clippers' shooting / scoring significantly.

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

My comment you quoted earlier was specifically best shooting team and best defensive team "in the playoffs." That's exactly what I was saying. 

I wouldn't be dismissive based on who they've played, they're obviously a very good shooting / scoring team overall, and they've been missing key players, Beverly and Harrell and earlier Lou W and PG again has been really off. 

For 2019-20, they're 4th overall in scoring on the season at 116.3 per game (behind Bucks, Houston and Dallas). 6th in 3% and 12th in FG%. That's of course disregarding that they've only played their full lineup together like 12 times all season (and lost 1 game). The C's were 13th in 3-point percentage. Miami was 2d, Toronto 5th. In FG% Miami was the only one of those ahead of the Clips, at 10th, Boston was 17th, Toronto 20th. I think you're undervaluing the Clippers' shooting / scoring significantly.

I didn't take that to mean percentages in the few games everyone played, if that's how you meant it I apologize. But if that is the case, then you certainly can't say the Clippers have been the best defensive team I took your point to be the best shooting team playing in the playoffs, to which I stand by my point that I don't believe the Clippers are among the top 3 shooting teams playing in the playoffs. 

I don't think any of the guys you mentioned are people that I'm concerned with their shooting. Lou is a great scorer, not a great shooter. Beverly is a spot up guy, I can live with him beating me and MH isn't a shooter at all. 

They're a great offensive team and their ability to drive and score from mid-range helps their percentage from three, but I don't think they're winning a shooting contest against the three I mentioned. 

Edited by KoB2011
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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, rico said:

Some Pacer notes.....

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/indiana-pacers/

In that link,  P's get only 14% of the votes, and  last, for most  desirable coaching  destination. Interesting, to me, appears to be more driven by location. Chicago? Great  city, bad team. New Orleans makes sense  given the foundation, but P's should be up there in terms of team to coach.

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

In that link,  P's get only 14% of the votes, and  last, for most  desirable coaching  destination. Interesting, to me, appears to be more driven by location. Chicago? Great  city, bad team. New Orleans makes sense  given the foundation, but P's should be up there in terms of team to coach.

Not sure I agree that people are voting based on location. The Pacers could very well be the best of those four teams next year, but they are probably the least likely of those four to reach an elite level in the next 5 years. 

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Not sure I agree that people are voting based on location. The Pacers could very well be the best of those four teams next year, but they are probably the least likely of those four to reach an elite level in the next 5 years. 

What do you see in Chicago, including their current roster and what they've done the past couple of years, that leads you to believe they're closer than the P's to being elite? 

2019-20: 22 and 43

2018-19: 22 and 60

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milehiiu

milehiiu

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Saw where one of the Pacers beat writers talked to some NBA executives and was told they believe VO wants out of Indiana.

Conflicting information with some saying Vic wants to be a Knick.... while those in the Pacer's front office are claiming that Vic wants to stay a Pacer.

Knicks Trade Rumor: Victor Oladipo Wants Out Of Indiana, Will The Knicks Bite?! 

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

What do you see in Chicago, including their current roster and what they've done the past couple of years, that leads you to believe they're closer than the P's to being elite? 

2019-20: 22 and 43

2018-19: 22 and 60

Coby White

Wendell Carter

Zach Lavine

Lauri Markkanen

Pick #4

 

We don't have young guys that have the type of upside that any of those do. Our guys kind of are what they are, and short of major roster reconstruction even with a new coach it's hard to imagine us as more than a second round team or maybe ECF if things feel right for us. 

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Coby White

Wendell Carter

Zach Lavine

Lauri Markkanen

Pick #4

 

We don't have young guys that have the type of upside that any of those do. Our guys kind of are what they are, and short of major roster reconstruction even with a new coach it's hard to imagine us as more than a second round team or maybe ECF if things feel right for us. 

OK, disagree. Chicago has been a dumpster fire. The P's just played Miami in the playoffs. Chicago has shown nothing, no sign of improvement. The P's have Vic (who, if he returns to health is a top 20 player in the League), TJ Warren, who just had a breakout playoff performance, Brogdon, Sabonis (whose loss clearly hurt the P's in the playoffs) and guys like A Holiday, J Holiday, and Jeremy Lamb. They'll probably trade Turner, and should get pretty good value for him, one of the League's better shot blockers with developing shooting. The new coach is question mark, but could well be an improvement (and I'm optimistic there, almost anyone, imo, would be an improvement). The P's are proven, with plenty of reason to see improvement, Chicago has just been bad. 

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

OK, disagree. Chicago has been a dumpster fire. The P's just played Miami in the playoffs. Chicago has shown nothing, no sign of improvement. The P's have Vic (who, if he returns to health is a top 20 player in the League), TJ Warren, who just had a breakout playoff performance, Brogdon, Sabonis (whose loss clearly hurt the P's in the playoffs) and guys like A Holiday, J Holiday, and Jeremy Lamb. They'll probably trade Turner, and should get pretty good value for him, one of the League's better shot blockers with developing shooting. The new coach is question mark, but could well be an improvement (and I'm optimistic there, almost anyone, imo, would be an improvement). The P's are proven, with plenty of reason to see improvement, Chicago has just been bad. 

Vic has had maybe one top 20 season in his entire career. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team that would take him over Lavine at this point.

TJ Warren just broke out in the bubble. He played like he always has before that in the playoffs.

 

I certainly agree the Pacers are more proven than the Bulls, but that doesn't make it the more desirable job. I can completely see why someone would look at the Bulls roster and prefer it over the Pacers for the next 5 years. 

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Vic has had maybe one top 20 season in his entire career. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team that would take him over Lavine at this point.

TJ Warren just broke out in the bubble. He played like he always has before that in the playoffs.

 

I certainly agree the Pacers are more proven than the Bulls, but that doesn't make it the more desirable job. I can completely see why someone would look at the Bulls roster and prefer it over the Pacers for the next 5 years. 

The NBA is a win now league. Coaches generally don't get to sit around for 5 years waiting on their young talent to start winning. Can Chicago get to winning soon? Maybe, yes they have -- individual -- talent, but two years in a row they've bombed and badly. There's nothing there to say hey, we're about to start playing in the playoffs. Then there's just looking at individuals and saying they have talent. What have they done, together? Can they gel? Sure, but that's just optimism at this point, again, they've just been bad.

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

The NBA is a win now league. Coaches generally don't get to sit around for 5 years waiting on their young talent to start winning. Can Chicago get to winning soon? Maybe, yes they have -- individual -- talent, but two years in a row they've bombed and badly. There's nothing there to say hey, we're about to start playing in the playoffs. Then there's just looking at individuals and saying they have talent. What have they done, together? Can they gel? Sure, but that's just optimism at this point, again, they've just been bad.

I don't think it's going to take 5 years and never said that. I think if you project who has a better chance of reaching the elite level over the next 5 years it is the Bulls. I think the Pacers are better next year, but after that? I'm not so sure. 

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Seeking6

Seeking6

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, jv1972iu said:

Call for Bill Self...phone call for Bill Self.

Nice call. Makes sense. 

Regarding the Heat. Major hat tip to Riley and Spolestra. Saw one of the Miami writers say it best. Last year best Heat player in their history retired, they only had $2M in cap space and look at them now. Scary part is they have plenty cap space coming open and it's not difficult to recruit guys to play in Miami. 

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KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Nice call. Makes sense. 

Regarding the Heat. Major hat tip to Riley and Spolestra. Saw one of the Miami writers say it best. Last year best Heat player in their history retired, they only had $2M in cap space and look at them now. Scary part is they have plenty cap space coming open and it's not difficult to recruit guys to play in Miami. 

They're really in a great spot. If I'm a star that wants to win I'd take a serious look at Miami. Great coach, I think Butler would be wonderful to play with if winning is your top priority.

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