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Just now, BGleas said:

Only the Celtics can sign and trade him. 

I assume there is a time frame New York would have to keep him. Usually it’s about bird rights and a player getting more money and years but Hayward is too old to garner a maximum deal.

My preference all along was a 3 way deal with Atlanta landing us draft picks and Boston getting Myles and atlanta gets Hayward who they need a good veteren leader.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

I assume there is a time frame New York would have to keep him. Usually it’s about bird rights and a player getting more money and years but Hayward is too old to garner a maximum deal.

My preference all along was a 3 way deal with Atlanta landing us draft picks and Boston getting Myles and atlanta gets Hayward who they need a good veteren leader.

In a typical season I believe something like December 15th is the first time a team can trade a player they signed in the previous off-season. Obviously that timeline is different this year. But, there's no chance the Knicks would sign him just to flip him later, they're preserving cap space. 

On the 3-team deal thing, that would rely on Hayward wanting to go to Atlanta. He's made it pretty clear he wants to go to Indiana, and the Pacers seem to really want him. 

Its a weird situation, all three parties have some leverage. The Pacers could also walk away, they don't have to do this, though they'd then be stuck trying to find another team that really want Turner and they'd be losing a chance at an all-star caliber player. 

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17 minutes ago, BGleas said:

In a typical season I believe something like December 15th is the first time a team can trade a player they signed in the previous off-season. Obviously that timeline is different this year. But, there's no chance the Knicks would sign him just to flip him later, they're preserving cap space. 

On the 3-team deal thing, that would rely on Hayward wanting to go to Atlanta. He's made it pretty clear he wants to go to Indiana, and the Pacers seem to really want him. 

Its a weird situation, all three parties have some leverage. The Pacers could also walk away, they don't have to do this, though they'd then be stuck trying to find another team that really want Turner and they'd be losing a chance at an all-star caliber player. 

Well no way they ship more than Turner and Mcdormet without get another asset in return. I honestly don’t think Boston wants Victor...they have no room for him in their lineup...plus then they definitely need to send back salary. I think the Pacers want to hold on to Victor until closer to the trade deadline to raise his value. He doesn’t have much right now...unless he is part of a bigger deal (3 team). 
 

I see other teams with cap space on some sites but realize Hayward might not be a target of them. Just saying I could see a team miss out on free agency and take a 1 year deal with Hayward. Things might not work out for any of them...he may end up with less money to only be a free agent again...honestly not sure why he declined the option unless he felt assured he would land where he wanted.

let me clarify no room for Victor because he is a ball dominant player and I don’t think he fits their offense.

Edited by dgambill
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7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Well no way they ship more than Turner and Mcdormet without get another asset in return. I honestly don’t think Boston wants Victor...they have no room for him in their lineup...plus then they definitely need to send back salary. I think the Pacers want to hold on to Victor until closer to the trade deadline to raise his value. He doesn’t have much right now...unless he is part of a bigger deal (3 team). 
 

I see other teams with cap space on some sites but realize Hayward might not be a target of them. Just saying I could see a team miss out on free agency and take a 1 year deal with Hayward. Things might not work out for any of them...he may end up with less money to only be a free agent again...honestly not sure why he declined the option unless he felt assured he would land where he wanted.

let me clarify no room for Victor because he is a ball dominant player and I don’t think he fits their offense.

I agree Oladipo doesn't fit. Hayward opted out to sign one last huge deal. With his ankle injury a couple years ago I'd be surprised to see sign a 1-year deal to gamble next year as a free agent again. 

Next years free agent class is massive and this year he's the best player, so can demand more. 

The Knicks and Hawks are the only teams with the room to sign him outright. I think this deal gets done. The Pacers will throw in more than Turner/McDermott, but it also won't be Warren or VO. 

My guess is a first round pick highly protected or Holiday. 

Edited by BGleas
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15 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I agree Oladipo doesn't fit. Hayward opted out to sign one last huge deal. With his ankle injury a couple years ago I'd be surprised to see sign a 1-year deal to gamble next year as a free agent again. 

Next years free agent class is massive and this year he's the best player, so can demand more. 

The Knicks and Hawks are the only teams with the room to sign him outright. I think this deal gets done. The Pacers will throw in more than Turner/McDermott, but it also won't be Warren or VO. 

My guess is a first round pick highly protected or Holiday. 

I don’t think he is the best player in free agency. A lot of younger talent with more long term upside. Most are restricted free agents though. If they want Holiday they are definitely giving up a really good young asset in return. That kid is going to keep getting better. A lot of Good upside with him. I can see why Danny would want him as he would fit perfectly into the team but man he has some balls with what he is asking for.

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

First, this is a different market. Every year is different. 

Second, Hayward wants to play in Indiana and the Pacers want Hayward but don't have cap space. 

There's only one team in the NBA that can give those two sides what they want. 

But they can also lose him for nothing or get something. 

I want Hayward, but there is a not so small part of me that would love to see Ainge continue to be the prick he is and get nothing after shipping off other bigs. 

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6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

But they can also lose him for nothing or get something. 

I want Hayward, but there is a not so small part of me that would love to see Ainge continue to be the prick he is and get nothing after shipping off other bigs. 

Yeah the Pacers can’t cut off their nose despite their face. Eventually there is diminishing returns dealing with Ainge. Lot more pressure on Ainge to win with his group then the Pacers. Pacers are fine being perfectly average and their fans expect nothing...Boston expects to win. Ainge needs to make a deal...whether it’s the Pacers or someone. Clock is ticking.

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5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

But they can also lose him for nothing or get something. 

I want Hayward, but there is a not so small part of me that would love to see Ainge continue to be the prick he is and get nothing after shipping off other bigs. 

Agree.  I think the pacers hold the keys here.  They can simply walk.  No one honestly and truly knows what the new Nate wants to work with as far as bigs go.  People keep saying he wants shooters.  If that's true then it may be Sabonis not Turner that is gone.  Warren is a nice player.  Really the pacers are real close, health, attitudes, and chemistry pending from having a really solid all around team.  

Crazy that Hayward turned down 33 mil by the way.  

What happens if pacers hold out and Hayward holds out refusing sign and trade with anyone but Pacers?  To me, again, pacers have the leverage because they can say, lol, no and be just fine.  Celtics get nothing or they can get something but they aren't in the position to fleece.  Ainge my present like they are but they are not.  Imo

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1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Agree.  I think the pacers hold the keys here.  They can simply walk.  No one honestly and truly knows what the new Nate wants to work with as far as bigs go.  People keep saying he wants shooters.  If that's true then it may be Sabonis not Turner that is gone.  Warren is a nice player.  Really the pacers are real close, health, attitudes, and chemistry pending from having a really solid all around team.  

Crazy that Hayward turned down 33 mil by the way.  

What happens if pacers hold out and Hayward holds out refusing sign and trade with anyone but Pacers?  To me, again, pacers have the leverage because they can say, lol, no and be just fine.  Celtics get nothing or they can get something but they aren't in the position to fleece.  Ainge my present like they are but they are not.  Imo

Especially when the narrative is that the Pacers are giving the Celtics what they need and the younger asset and Ainge wants to fleece them for a guy who doesn't want to be there. 

It will show a lot of players that if you go to Boston, you do so at your own perile just as AD opined. 

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1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Agree.  I think the pacers hold the keys here.  They can simply walk.  No one honestly and truly knows what the new Nate wants to work with as far as bigs go.  People keep saying he wants shooters.  If that's true then it may be Sabonis not Turner that is gone.  Warren is a nice player.  Really the pacers are real close, health, attitudes, and chemistry pending from having a really solid all around team.  

Crazy that Hayward turned down 33 mil by the way.  

What happens if pacers hold out and Hayward holds out refusing sign and trade with anyone but Pacers?  To me, again, pacers have the leverage because they can say, lol, no and be just fine.  Celtics get nothing or they can get something but they aren't in the position to fleece.  Ainge my present like they are but they are not.  Imo

Sabonis is by far the better player than Turner do they will not trade him.  You can run the offense through Sabonis since he is a very good passer.  He is very good at the pick and role or just setting screens on general.  I think you saw it in the bubble where J Holiday and McDermott struggled getting good looks.

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3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Especially when the narrative is that the Pacers are giving the Celtics what they need and the younger asset and Ainge wants to fleece them for a guy who doesn't want to be there. 

It will show a lot of players that if you go to Boston, you do so at your own perile just as AD opined. 

Didn’t IT show that. Guy was a stud for them and he got nothing. Now it was the right move for Celtics but that speaks volumes to players about how you will be handled. You look at how other teams treat their stars and then Boston...night and day....and nothing has changed. Boston had never gotten that Red Auerbach mentality out of there.

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Sabonis is by far the better player than Turner do they will not trade him.  You can run the offense through Sabonis since he is a very good passer.  He is very good at the pick and role or just setting screens on general.  I think you saw it in the bubble where J Holiday and McDermott struggled getting good looks.

I agree with your assessment but neither of us are getting paid 5 mil a year to run a system.  Makes sense though.  

Seriously.  If pacers and Hayward holds out, the other teams are going to go spend their money.  Last team standing is pacers.  Sorry ainge, playing and talking tough isn't going to work on this one.  

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24 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I don’t think he is the best player in free agency. A lot of younger talent with more long term upside. Most are restricted free agents though. If they want Holiday they are definitely giving up a really good young asset in return. That kid is going to keep getting better. A lot of Good upside with him. I can see why Danny would want him as he would fit perfectly into the team but man he has some balls with what he is asking for.

Who's better than Hayward? It seems to me most non-Celtics watchers view Hayward as the guy with the broken ankle that struggled two seasons ago. 

He averaged 19ppg last year shooting 38% from 3 as the 4th option on his team. He was basically back to the guy that Miami, Boston and Utah were fighting over in free agency 4 years ago. 

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21 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

But they can also lose him for nothing or get something. 

I want Hayward, but there is a not so small part of me that would love to see Ainge continue to be the prick he is and get nothing after shipping off other bigs. 

They can lose him for nothing but its in everyone's interest to work it out. 

I doubt the Knicks are signing him and I doubt he'd want to go there. The Hawks are the only other team that can sign him without giving anything up. 

If fans of other teams hate Danny so much, it tells me as a Celtics fan that he's doing a pretty great job. He makes tons of trades, so doesn't seem like other teams/GM's mind dealing with him. 

His job is to get the best possible outcome for his team. 

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11 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Especially when the narrative is that the Pacers are giving the Celtics what they need and the younger asset and Ainge wants to fleece them for a guy who doesn't want to be there. 

It will show a lot of players that if you go to Boston, you do so at your own perile just as AD opined. 

Ainge isn't fleecing anybody. He's negotiating. We all know the Pacers aren't trading Turner and Oladipo for Hayward. Heck, we don't even know if that request is even accurate. 

The Pacers might be giving the Celtics what they need, but the Celtics would be giving the Pacers and Hayward what they want and the best player in the deal. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Who's better than Hayward? It seems to me most non-Celtics watchers view Hayward as the guy with the broken ankle that struggled two seasons ago. 

He averaged 19ppg last year shooting 38% from 3 as the 4th option on his team. He was basically back to the guy that Miami, Boston and Utah were fighting over in free agency 4 years ago. 

Brandon Ingram, FVV, Christian Wood, Bogdonovich. I mean younger guys with bigger upsides. Again some are restricted and some aren’t going anywhere but even Drummond/Whiteside might be more desirable depending on need. I like Davis Bertans  a lot. I think Gordon is a really good player but long term age and injury concerns abound. I see just as many other quality players even if there is not an alpha besides AD who isn’t going anywhere.

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Just now, FKIM01 said:

Apparently it's good enough for Boston to name him. 😂

Maybe but he was being put into a package that did not like enough for Turner and VO.  What Woj reported was that according to people in knows said his trade value is low.  Just saying if you put him on the market by himself your compensation  would not be very good.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Brandon Ingram, FVV, Christian Wood, Bogdonovich. I mean younger guys with bigger upsides. Again some are restricted and some aren’t going anywhere but even Drummond/Whiteside might be more desirable depending on need. I like Davis Bertans  a lot. I think Gordon is a really good player but long term age and injury concerns abound. I see just as many other quality players even if there is not an alpha besides AD who isn’t going anywhere.

Drummond opted in so he is not a free agent

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Brandon Ingram, FVV, Christian Wood, Bogdonovich. I mean younger guys with bigger upsides. Again some are restricted and some aren’t going anywhere but even Drummond/Whiteside might be more desirable depending on need. I like Davis Bertans  a lot. I think Gordon is a really good player but long term age and injury concerns abound. I see just as many other quality players even if there is not an alpha besides AD who isn’t going anywhere.

Hayward is probably 2nd on that list after Ingram, especially in today's NBA. but again most of those guys aren't actually available and the ones could be available would also be sign and trade so you're going to give pieces there too. 

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Maybe but he was being put into a package that did not like enough for Turner and VO.  What Woj reported was that according to people in knows said his trade value is low.  Just saying if you put him on the market by himself your compensation  would not be very good.

Yeah...I was thinking include him in the Boston deal if you can get a younger cheaper guy with potential who wanted to be in Indiana. Don't know who'd fit for sure but given Oladipo's lack of interest in being here, I'm fine with exploring options with Boston.

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Looks like Galinari is going to Atlanta, essentially taking the Hawks out of the Hayward sweepstakes. 

Sounds like Charlotte is potentially in play though. 

Like I've said, the Celtics, Pacers and Hayward all have some leverage here and also lack some leverage here. 

End of the day, I bet they get something done that meets in the middle. 

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