Jump to content

NBA Thread


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Or it’s all PR smoke to drive up asking price for Hayward by his agent or from the Celtics to get more from another team. He might be willing to go other places in a sign and trade if the money is right. Sometimes the obvious fit is the right fit...sometimes we aren’t getting the whole story. This one almost makes too much sense.

We basically never get the full story. 

At some point it was brought up that Hayward could sign a shorter, smaller deal to make it work with a team. It might be somewhat unlikely, but if the Celtics and Pacers can't work it out and other suitors dry up, I could see Hayward going back to Boston on one of those near max two-year deals where he has a player option for next season to opt out and test it again. 

He's a pro and would suck it up and play his best for the Celtics and Boston would definitely take having him. It would get him his desired annual number while letting him out after one season. That's the one option where I could see him doing a short deal. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

We basically never get the full story. 

At some point it was brought up that Hayward could sign a shorter, smaller deal to make it work with a team. It might be somewhat unlikely, but if the Celtics and Pacers can't work it out and other suitors dry up, I could see Hayward going back to Boston on one of those near max two-year deals where he has a player option for next season to opt out and test it again. 

He's a pro and would suck it up and play his best for the Celtics and Boston would definitely take having him. It would get him his desired annual number while letting him out after one season. That's the one option where I could see him doing a short deal. 

I could also see him signing a shorter deal for less money for a year in Indy then getting extended. 

It seems like part of the reason he doesn't want to be in Boston anymore is because of how the fans treated his family. For some people they may be able to get over that for a lot more money, for some they won't. Especially when the Celtics being unreasonable is the reason you can't go back home in the first place; why reward them for that behavior?

Because at the end of the day there are three parties here that all have something to gain from this and only one is being a problem about it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

We basically never get the full story. 

At some point it was brought up that Hayward could sign a shorter, smaller deal to make it work with a team. It might be somewhat unlikely, but if the Celtics and Pacers can't work it out and other suitors dry up, I could see Hayward going back to Boston on one of those near max two-year deals where he has a player option for next season to opt out and test it again. 

He's a pro and would suck it up and play his best for the Celtics and Boston would definitely take having him. It would get him his desired annual number while letting him out after one season. That's the one option where I could see him doing a short deal. 

Nobody is being a problem. Danny Ainge is doing his job, which is to get the Celtics the best deal he can. 

Sorry is Ainge isn't just doing what the Pacers want. The Celtics have paid Gordon Hayward a ton of money, and while not Hayward's fault, haven't really gotten the return on that investment, so now that he's healthy they want to maximize it. 

Maybe the Pacers should act like that more often and they wouldn't be stuck in mediocrity all the time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Nobody is being a problem. Danny Ainge is doing his job, which is to get the Celtics the best deal he can. 

Sorry is Ainge isn't just doing what the Pacers want. The Celtics have paid Gordon Hayward a ton of money, and while not Hayward's fault, haven't really gotten the return on that investment, so now that he's healthy they want to maximize it. 

Maybe the Pacers should act like that more often and they wouldn't be stuck in mediocrity all the time. 

I'd say there is a reason Ainge can only pull trades with floundering teams like the Nets - he has no idea how to negotiate with talented basketball minds like Pritchard. 

The Pacers did offer a fair trade for Hayward. If you want to tweak it fine, but to come back with what Ainge did is absurd. 

I negotiate with high level execs on a regular basis and if I got countered like that I'd stop negotiating. There's clearly a misalignment on the value of the assets involved and until that's resolved there's no point in talking. 

I'd tell Hayward we really want him and if he wants to be here he can work it out with Ainge to be reasonable or else he will unfortunately have to find a new home, because we are doing all we can to make a fair offer and still put a good team around Hayward. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'd say there is a reason Ainge can only pull trades with floundering teams like the Nets - he has no idea how to negotiate with talented basketball minds like Pritchard. 

The Pacers did offer a fair trade for Hayward. If you want to tweak it fine, but to come back with what Ainge did is absurd. 

I negotiate with high level execs on a regular basis and if I got countered like that I'd stop negotiating. There's clearly a misalignment on the value of the assets involved and until that's resolved there's no point in talking. 

I'd tell Hayward we really want him and if he wants to be here he can work it out with Ainge to be reasonable or else he will unfortunately have to find a new home, because we are doing all we can to make a fair offer and still put a good team around Hayward. 

Ainge's nickname is literally "Trader Danny" because he makes so many trades. He just yesterday completed a complicated 3-team trade with the Grizzlies and Blazers. 

He's done deals in the past for Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Kyrie Irving, Isiah Thomas, Kemba Walker, etc., etc.  

He's made trades with nearly every team in the NBA, even blockbuster deals with teams in his own division. 

I also think its a misconception that somehow Turner and McDermott is the "fair" deal and Boston should just take it when they're clearly dealing the best player. 

Ainge's track record is much more accomplished than Pritchard's. 

Edited by BGleas
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no reason to trade for Gordon if it guts your team. Can’t give up Holiday or Warren in that trade. Gordon is an excellent piece but he is on the back side of his career. Not only that he has injury concerns of his own. I don’t think Pacer fans undervalue him but what is the point of getting him if he makes your team worse? We don’t have to make a move. Myles is locked up so we can let the new coach run this team back and see if it improves. Can trade Myles later if we need to. I’m sure Hayward would love to come home but he made his bed. He opted out of his contract. Clearly he isn’t in high demand or there would be more interest in a sign and trade by other teams. Take a nice one year deal in New York and try again next offseason. Pacers should have money with Vic off their books and they can revisit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That's ridiculous. Ainge's nickname is literally "Trader Danny" because he makes so many trades. He just yesterday completed a complicated 3-team trade with the Grizzlies and Blazers. 

He's done deals in the past for Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Kyrie Irving, Isiah Thomas, Kemba Walker, etc., etc.  

He's made trades with nearly every team in the NBA, even blockbuster deals with teams in his own division. 

I also think its a misconception that somehow Turner and McDermott is the "fair" deal and Boston should just take it when they're clearly dealing the best player. 

Ainge's track record is much more accomplished than Pritchard's. 

Ainge does all sorts of deals. No doubt he is good at them. But Let’s be real. Since he pulled in the big 3 he hasn’t won anything. All those pieces all those trades and they haven’t made a finals. It’s his job to get the best return he can for Hayward but I feel like Danny sometimes you have to cut your losses. Hayward is sunk costs. I mean he shouldn’t make a trade if it won’t make his team better..maybe he really doesn’t like Turner...don’t blame him but I don’t see a lot of moves to be made as free agency has really picked up steam and teams flexibility are diminishing. Gordon’s value to the Celtics is dwindling rapidly. Have to realize it didn’t work out...swallow your pride and find a deal.

Edited by dgambill
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Ainge does all sorts of deals. No doubt he is good at them. But Let’s be real. Since he pulled in the big 3 he hasn’t won anything. All those pieces all those trades and they haven’t made a finals. It’s his job to get the best return he can for Hayward but I feel like Danny sometimes you have to cut your losses. Hayward is sunk costs. I mean he shouldn’t make a trade if it won’t make his team better..maybe he really doesn’t like Turner...don’t blame him but I don’t see a lot of moves to be made as free agency has really picked up steam and teams flexibility are diminishing. Gordon’s value to the Celtics is dwindling rapidly. Have to realize it didn’t work out...swallow your pride and find a deal.

On Danny's success, I don't think that's really fair. Of course getting to the Finals and winning titles is the ultimate goal, but he retooled an aging Big 3 team and had the Celtics back in the ECF in 4 years and has since been to 3 of the last 4 conference Finals, including taking LeBron's Cavs 7 games in the ECF with a team missing both Kyrie and Hayward. 

Since the Big 3 and Doc Rivers left, he's turned that into luring Brad Stevens from Butler and drafting, trading for or signing Al Horford, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, and Kyrie (which eventually turned into Kemba).

Most teams in the NBA would kill to have been in 3 of the last 4 ECF's, while having pulled off a masterful rebuild in short order. 

Do they need to get over the hump? Absolutely, and that's partly why Ainge doesn't want to settle for Doug McDermott, his job is to get this team to the Finals and win a title so he's pushing hard. That's his job.

As far as remaining free agency, the Celtics need to either trade Hayward or re-sign him to a big money, short deal. Then if they re-sign him, Aaron Baynes has interest in returning and then finally re-sign Tatum to a max deal. 

I'd love to see Boston and Indiana work something out, but I'd be just as fine with re-signing Hayward and bringing Baynes back. To be honest, I like Hayward so I would almost prefer that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

On Danny's success, I don't think that's really fair. Of course getting to the Finals and winning titles is the ultimate goal, but he retooled an aging Big 3 team and had the Celtics back in the ECF in 4 years and has since been to 3 of the last 4 conference Finals, including taking LeBron's Cavs 7 games in the ECF with a team missing both Kyrie and Hayward. 

Since the Big 3 and Doc Rivers left, he's turned that into luring Brad Stevens from Butler and drafting, trading for or signing Al Horford, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, and Kyrie (which eventually turned into Kemba).

Most teams in the NBA would kill to have been in 3 of the last 4 ECF's, while having pulled off a masterful rebuild in short order. 

Do they need to get over the hump? Absolutely, and that's partly why Ainge doesn't want to settle for Doug McDermott, his job is to get this team to the Finals and win a title so he's pushing hard. That's his job.

As far as remaining free agency, the Celtics need to either trade Hayward or re-sign him to a big money, short deal. Then if they re-sign him, Aaron Baynes has interest in returning and then finally re-sign Tatum to a max deal. 

I'd love to see Boston and Indiana work something out, but I'd be just as fine with re-signing Hayward and bringing Baynes back. To be honest, I like Hayward so I would almost prefer that. 

Well Kyrie was a huge mistake...then turned it into Kemba and I don’t think that is any smarter. He landed some great draft picks and a lot of good talent but as good as the talent is there just hasn’t been a good fit together. It’s been lacking some cohesion. Now that those young stars are starting to get paid all that depth he has had is going away. I can see why he wants what he wants but he is going to have to go elsewhere..I don’t see the Pacers giving it up. I think the deal is reasonable...not great. Both teams get something they need but neither gets ALL they want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Well Kyrie was a huge mistake...then turned it into Kemba and I don’t think that is any smarter. He landed some great draft picks and a lot of good talent but as good as the talent is there just hasn’t been a good fit together. It’s been lacking some cohesion. Now that those young stars are starting to get paid all that depth he has had is going away. I can see why he wants what he wants but he is going to have to go elsewhere..I don’t see the Pacers giving it up. I think the deal is reasonable...not great. Both teams get something they need but neither gets ALL they want.

Yeah, the job isn't done yet, but most franchises would kill to have acquired those players. It's not always going to work out, but I'd rather have a GM that takes calculated chances and swings for the fences. It's not always going to work out. 

What Boston has done to retool post-Big 3 is incredibly impressive. Depth is absolutely an issue, it hurt them in the playoffs in the bubble, which is another reason to not just settle in the Hayward deal. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Ainge's nickname is literally "Trader Danny" because he makes so many trades. He just yesterday completed a complicated 3-team trade with the Grizzlies and Blazers. 

He's done deals in the past for Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Kyrie Irving, Isiah Thomas, Kemba Walker, etc., etc.  

He's made trades with nearly every team in the NBA, even blockbuster deals with teams in his own division. 

I also think its a misconception that somehow Turner and McDermott is the "fair" deal and Boston should just take it when they're clearly dealing the best player. 

Ainge's track record is much more accomplished than Pritchard's. 

The Celtics wouldn't have been giving up anything, Hayward wasn't on their roster. His value isn't the same as if they had him under long term contract. 

I'm also not convinced it's much higher than Turner straight up given their ages and injury history. 

But now the Celts have no bigs and got nothing for losing Hayward. The Pacers are in the exact same situation, Hayward got paid, and the Celts lost a big asset for nothing. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

The Celtics wouldn't have been giving up anything, Hayward wasn't on their roster. His value isn't the same as if they had him under long term contract. 

I'm also not convinced it's much higher than Turner straight up given their ages and injury history. 

But now the Celts have no bigs and got nothing for losing Hayward. The Pacers are in the exact same situation, Hayward got paid, and the Celts lost a big asset for nothing. 

The Celtics will be fine. We'll resign Tatum to a long-term max deal and potentially bring Aaron Baynes back. I like our draft and I'm excited about Robert Williams development. I'm good with that. I also wouldn't be surprised if Boston and Charlotte work out a sign and trade. 

Is Boston a title team? Probably not, but if Kemba is healthy, Tatum and Brown keep making leaps, and Danny can fill out the roster with a guy like Baynes, then we're certainly in the Eastern Conference title hunt. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

The Celtics will be fine. We'll resign Tatum to a long-term max deal and potentially bring Aaron Baynes back. I like our draft and I'm excited about Robert Williams development. I'm good with that. I also wouldn't be surprised if Boston and Charlotte work out a sign and trade. 

Is Boston a title team? Probably not, but if Kemba is healthy, Tatum and Brown keep making leaps, and Danny can fill out the roster with a guy like Baynes, then we're certainly in the Eastern Conference title hunt. 

Why would Charlotte have any incentive to work out a sign and trade with Ainge? What's he going to get that's better than Turner from Charlotte?

Ainge looks pretty bad here man. He overplayed his hand with a guy he didn't have under contract when he only wanted to go one place. He should have taken the fair offer he got. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Why would Charlotte have any incentive to work out a sign and trade with Ainge? What's he going to get that's better than Turner from Charlotte?

Ainge looks pretty bad here man. He overplayed his hand with a guy he didn't have under contract when he only wanted to go one place. He should have taken the fair offer he got. 

Charlotte doesn't currently have the cap space for the deal they've agreed to. So they're going to have to make some moves to clear space or do a sign and trade.  

Ainge looks fine. If he didn't like the deal, then he shouldn't have done it, so he didn't. 

What about Indiana? It's not like high level free agents typically want to go to the Pacers and they had one fall in their lap and wouldn't ante up. Hayward would have be the teams #1 or #2 offensive option depending on Oladipo's recovery and return to form. You just lost the chance at a 17-20ppg play-making forward who shoots over 50% from 2 and 38% from 3 and is an above average defender. Those guys don't grow on trees, especially for small market teams. 

The Celtics passed up on a young big who regressed last season and a journeyman shooter who's a minus defensively. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Why would Charlotte have any incentive to work out a sign and trade with Ainge? What's he going to get that's better than Turner from Charlotte?

Ainge looks pretty bad here man. He overplayed his hand with a guy he didn't have under contract when he only wanted to go one place. He should have taken the fair offer he got. 

Also, maybe it wasn't the Celtics that "botched" this, maybe Indiana wouldn't ante up to Hayward at the level that Charlotte did?

Charlotte just gave Hayward $120 million over 4 years, Indiana would have had to at least match that. The Celtics may have just been waiting to see who Hayward chose to see who the sign and trade would be with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

I'll just say this. I'm glad the Pacers didn't give in. 

Doesn't seem like it was about giving in to Boston, seems like it was more about getting outbid by Charlotte (not suggesting Indy should have matched Charlotte'sbid, but that seems to be what happened here). 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BGleas said:

Doesn't seem like it was about giving in to Boston, seems like it was more about getting outbid by Charlotte (not suggesting Indy should have matched Charlotte'sbid, but that seems to be what happened here). 

 

Understand. Wish it would have worked out for Hayward and Pacers but not at those numbers. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Understand. Wish it would have worked out for Hayward and Pacers but not at those numbers. 

Agree, would have been crazy for the Pacers to do that. Same reason the Celtics let him walk (though they may s&t with Charlotte). 

Bottom line here is, Hayward went for the pay day over winning and over going home. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...