NBA Thread

[Hoosierhoopster]

17 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Who did Lebron trust to get him his championships? To have a rookie coach lead him? Giannis obviously can do what he thinks best but if I want to cement my legacy I know where to go in the East to do that. I know who I would trust to help me do it. That said like most NBA stars he can force his way out if the time comes.

I’m not really following where you’re going here. Again I wasn’t taking a swipe at Butler though again I think he was basically a malcontent on prior teams, before Philly.
As to whether guys want to fight long term with their teams, or chase a ring somewhere that’s an individual choice. Was there something wrong with Reggie for playing 18 years with the Pacers? Or is there something wrong with Dame for being loyal to the Blazers, and laughing at the way Durant ran to the team that beat him to get a ring in GS? No. But there’s also nothing wrong imo with guys leaving bad organizations, or managers / management who screw up the teams (eg, Bird), or who need a better fit, or who are looking for better pay etc.

[BGleas]

27 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That said like most NBA stars he can force his way out if the time comes.

Yeah, this basically locks in Giannis for the most money and buys Milwaukee 2-3 years to keep building around Giannis, but it doesn't really mean he'll definitely be there for the long-term. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, this basically locks in Giannis for the most money and buys Milwaukee 2-3 years to keep building around Giannis, but it doesn't really mean he'll definitely be there for the long-term. 

Oh agreed. No leverage for a bit and yes he must be happy with their direction to do it so he doesn’t want out right now...but give it a couple years and we can revisit. So interesting what all the teams with money next offseason do. They all had left room for him. Atlanta, Dallas, Miami etc etc...wonder what they do now. 

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It's not really a swipe at Butler -- it's that Butler has jumped to numerous teams now. Count the teams. I don't buy into your view of Butler -- he has been a cancer but has matured. And yes, he is chasing a ring in his latest jump to Miami. However, again, I didn't mean it as a swipe at Butler, and definitely no faulting his leaving Philli for Miami, Miami is a better organization than Philli and Miami is clearly built better a a team.

As to whether he'll be surrounded by championship talent, who knows? The Bucks have had the best record in the East two years running, right? They were clearly a step away from the championship last year, but just came up short. This year Giannis himself got exposed for lack of an improved jumper, and he needs to work on that, and the Bucks got exposed because they got worse, not better, but still good enough to rack up the best regular season record. 

He forced a trade from two bad teams that haven't done worth a dang since he left. Hard to put the blame on him and it looks like he was spot-on with how he felt about the Bulls and Wolves situations....

I can only imagine what you'd say about a two-way wing that forced his way off of two teams that both played better without him if this is how you feel about Butler....

Edited December 16, 2020 by KoB2011

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

He forced a trade from two bad teams that haven't done worth a dang since he left. Hard to put the blame on him and it looks like he was spot-on with how he felt about the Bulls and Wolves situations....

I can only imagine what you'd say about a two-way wing that forced his way off of two teams that both played better without him if this is how you feel about Butler....

Lol except PG didn’t force himself off, Bird traded or lost every single player he played with then forced him to play the 4 but nice try. Of F it, I can’t even read the board with another PG jibe. 
Butler had a fantastic year, great to see him mature and find a great situation in Miami 

[KoB2011]

3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Lol except PG didn’t force himself off, Bird traded or lost every single player he played with then forced him to play the 4 but nice try. Of F it, I can’t even read the board with another PG jibe. 
Butler had a fantastic year, great to see him mature and find a great situation in Miami 

PG didn't force his way out of two situations? It just seems really convenient to give PG a pass but then try to demonize Butler for wanting out of Chicago and Minnesota as if those are places that have won with the consistency that Indiana and OKC have. 

And look, I might be the second biggest PG defender on the board (remember a few days ago when I pointed out he has shown multiple times he can play at an MVP caliber level) behind you but he was never in situations as bad as Butler, and the teams he's left have at a minimum not gotten worse, where as Butler's teams have shown that they were trash after he left. I don't think anyone would argue the fact that PG is more talented than Jimmy Butler, but i think you're the only person (on the board, maybe on the planet) that would argue PG is on the same playing field as Butler between the ears. 

The reality is Butler is a really good teammate to guys who want to win and a great leader. I'm not sure how you can say either of those things about PG with a straight face... 

[Hoosierhoopster]

7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

PG didn't force his way out of two situations? It just seems really convenient to give PG a pass but then try to demonize Butler for wanting out of Chicago and Minnesota as if those are places that have won with the consistency that Indiana and OKC have. 

And look, I might be the second biggest PG defender on the board (remember a few days ago when I pointed out he has shown multiple times he can play at an MVP caliber level) behind you but he was never in situations as bad as Butler, and the teams he's left have at a minimum not gotten worse, where as Butler's teams have shown that they were trash after he left. I don't think anyone would argue the fact that PG is more talented than Jimmy Butler, but i think you're the only person (on the board, maybe on the planet) that would argue PG is on the same playing field as Butler between the ears. 

The reality is Butler is a really good teammate to guys who want to win and a great leader. I'm not sure how you can say either of those things about PG with a straight face... 

Butler has a long history of locker room fights and discontent with teammates and media. That’s reality. PG had no issues for many years in IN. That’s reality. Then things went South in IN and PG started making clear he wanted out, that’s also reality. I don’t blame him given the situation in IN and he wanted to go back to his home in LA and family - but there’s another side to that story also reality. Butler is doing great now and by al accounts is now a great teammate. Also reality. That’s it for me 

[KoB2011]

53 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Butler has a long history of locker room fights and discontent with teammates and media. That’s reality. PG had no issues for many years in IN. That’s reality. Then things went South in IN and PG started making clear he wanted out, that’s also reality. I don’t blame him given the situation in IN and he wanted to go back to his home in LA and family - but there’s another side to that story also reality. Butler is doing great now and by al accounts is now a great teammate. Also reality. That’s it for me 

[dgambill]

9 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Butler has a long history of locker room fights and discontent with teammates and media. That’s reality. PG had no issues for many years in IN. That’s reality. Then things went South in IN and PG started making clear he wanted out, that’s also reality. I don’t blame him given the situation in IN and he wanted to go back to his home in LA and family - but there’s another side to that story also reality. Butler is doing great now and by al accounts is now a great teammate. Also reality. That’s it for me 

So PG didn’t sleep with Roy Hibberts fiancé? Guess we will never know but it wasn’t a coincidence as soon as that came out Hibbert called teammates out for being selfish and his career pretty much plummeted after that. 🤷‍♂️

[Hoosierhoopster]

4 hours ago, dgambill said:

So PG didn’t sleep with Roy Hibberts fiancé? Guess we will never know but it wasn’t a coincidence as soon as that came out Hibbert called teammates out for being selfish and his career pretty much plummeted after that. 🤷‍♂️

He called teammates out for being selfish because Lance was stealing rebounds, and Hibbert actually said just that. The sleep with a girlfriend BS is the same as it was when people tried to say Romeo did. God the way these BS rumors are spread is so silly 

[Hoosierhoopster]

Hayward already injured again. Now it’s a fractured finger 

[KoB2011]

44 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

He called teammates out for being selfish because Lance was stealing rebounds, and Hibbert actually said just that. The sleep with a girlfriend BS is the same as it was when people tried to say Romeo did. God the way these BS rumors are spread is so silly 

So we believe Butler is a locker room problem despite the fact that Dwayne Wade was on his side with the Chicago thing, and all the teams he left got worse without him but completely disregard any such rumors about PG despite every team he's left getting better without him and the very documented and very real "Paul George has no clue what he is talking about" saga that recently played out with the Clippers and Doc Rivers?

If we are really comparing Paul George to Jimmy Butler I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would argue against PG being more talented. I also think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone aside front yourself that would pick PG over Butler if they needed to win a game. 

[Billingsley99]

9 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

So we believe Butler is a locker room problem despite the fact that Dwayne Wade was on his side with the Chicago thing, and all the teams he left got worse without him but completely disregard any such rumors about PG despite every team he's left getting better without him and the very documented and very real "Paul George has no clue what he is talking about" saga that recently played out with the Clippers and Doc Rivers?

If we are really comparing Paul George to Jimmy Butler I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would argue against PG being more talented. I also think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone aside front yourself that would pick PG over Butler if they needed to win a game. 

Thats completely inaccurate.  There are lots of people that would take PG over Butler, but the rest of them are related to PG😀

[Hoosierhoopster]

11 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

So we believe Butler is a locker room problem despite the fact that Dwayne Wade was on his side with the Chicago thing, and all the teams he left got worse without him but completely disregard any such rumors about PG despite every team he's left getting better without him and the very documented and very real "Paul George has no clue what he is talking about" saga that recently played out with the Clippers and Doc Rivers?

If we are really comparing Paul George to Jimmy Butler I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would argue against PG being more talented. I also think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone aside front yourself that would pick PG over Butler if they needed to win a game. 

Man there is no question, whatsoever, as documented in all kinds of stories, articles, etc., that Butler caused and was involved in all kinds of locker room issues in his earlier years. That was baggage following him. Your refusal to acknowledge that is frankly worse than my perceived love of all things PG. I have, can and do acknowledge that PG has said some extremely stupid things, acted like a fool, including several times over the past year, that his "between the ears" thing has him looking bad at times -- and BTW I guess it's cool to simply ignore that he was going through depression this year, you know, a medical condition, let's just laugh at depression right? -- but lots of guys have picked PG over Butler to win a game, give me a freaking break, PG has won all kinds of games and just two years ago averaged 28 PPG, 2nd in the League, while being in the final 3 for both MVP and defensive MVP. Golly, who would pick PG with that kind of game? 

That said, if I myself were picking between the two right now, based on last season, I would pick Butler, hands down, because he has his stuff together, right now, he's playing fantastic ball. However, that's based on last season, now we'll see how PG does this year with time to gel and actually play with his teammates, unlike last year, and whether he is mentally and physically good. Remember the debates we had on your claim PG's defense was gone after his year-long injury, that he wasn't the same player, and the next year he was a finalist for defensive MVP? Let's see how this season pans out.

Now I'm done with the repeated barbs and PG discussion.

[dgambill]

28 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Man there is no question, whatsoever, as documented in all kinds of stories, articles, etc., that Butler caused and was involved in all kinds of locker room issues in his earlier years. That was baggage following him. Your refusal to acknowledge that is frankly worse than my perceived love of all things PG. I have, can and do acknowledge that PG has said some extremely stupid things, acted like a fool, including several times over the past year, that his "between the ears" thing has him looking bad at times -- and BTW I guess it's cool to simply ignore that he was going through depression this year, you know, a medical condition, let's just laugh at depression right? -- but lots of guys have picked PG over Butler to win a game, give me a freaking break, PG has won all kinds of games and just two years ago averaged 28 PPG, 2nd in the League, while being in the final 3 for both MVP and defensive MVP. Golly, who would pick PG with that kind of game? 

That said, if I myself were picking between the two right now, based on last season, I would pick Butler, hands down, because he has his stuff together, right now, he's playing fantastic ball. However, that's based on last season, now we'll see how PG does this year with time to gel and actually play with his teammates, unlike last year, and whether he is mentally and physically good. Remember the debates we had on your claim PG's defense was gone after his year-long injury, that he wasn't the same player, and the next year he was a finalist for defensive MVP? Let's see how this season pans out.

Now I'm done with the repeated barbs and PG discussion.

You know we all love trolling you on the PG thing right? It’s just too much fun. 

[cybergates]

[Hoosierfan1901]

Yogi has signed a deal with Utah

[NotIThatLives]

5 hours ago, Hoosierfan1901 said:

Yogi has signed a deal with Utah

Now thats a solid franchise.

[rico]

Kobe's family......

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/vanessa-bryant-widow-of-kobe-bryant-accuses-own-mother-of-extortion-over-lawsuit-demanding-financial-support/

[Coach1K]

May or may not have to do with why they waived Yogi. 

[HoosierJax]

Damn...OG gettin paid!!  CONGRATS 

[Hoosierhoopster]

23 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

Damn...OG gettin paid!!  CONGRATS 

That’s awesome - way to go OG

[Billingsley99]

13 hours ago, HoosierJax said:

Damn...OG gettin paid!!  CONGRATS 

In related news the Thunder just cut TJ Leaf. How did Pacers mess that one up

[HoosierJax]

2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

In related news the Thunder just cut TJ Leaf. How did Pacers mess that one up

They seem to have a history with those type of players

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

In related news the Thunder just cut TJ Leaf. How did Pacers mess that one up

What frustrates me more than anything is that the Pacers have had a number of draft picks in the 16-22 range...and there always are guys in that 10-15 range I think that we could easily put a package together to move up for...but even staying put we rarely get it right. Seems like we always look for guys that can complement but limited upside instead of taking the kid with potential and rolling the dice. Always trying to add a win or two instead of taking a big swing that might take a few years to develop and maybe become a star. Also we just never tear it down and rebuild. At least teams like New Orleans and Philly and Phoenix and Denver was able to load up talent for a couple years and got some center pieces to build around. I’m fine tanking a couple years If it meant landing some young stars to build around.