NBA Thread

[dbmhoosier]

 

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

 

In other news....summer is hot...back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[BGleas]

23 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

 

It was interesting to see Max Kellerman push back on Steven A on this one. I don't disagree with Steven A. as a general point, but this particular situation seems like an odd hill to stand on. 

This was a hire from within and a coach in Stevens who had potentially been getting groomed for this by Ainge. If this was a situation where Stevens resigned from the Celtics to go be the President of Basketball Ops for say the Clippers or the Trailblazers (just pulling random teams) with no front office experience, then I could at least understand where Steven A is coming from. 

But everyone pretty much universally understands that Stevens is a top basketball mind and that this was a hire from within that had been groomed for the position. 

Edit: I didn't listen to the entire thing, but did Steven A mention that James Jones went straight from playing to being named VP of Basketball Ops for the Phoenix Suns? So, these things are happening. 

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It was interesting to see Max Kellerman push back on Steven A on this one. I don't disagree with Steven A. as a general point, but this particular situation seems like an odd hill to die on. 

This was a hire from within and a coach in Stevens who had potentially been getting groomed for this by Ainge. If this was a situation where Stevens resigned from the Celtics to go be the President of Basketball Ops for say the Clippers or the Trailblazers (just pulling random teams) with no front office experience, then I could at least understand where Steven A is coming from. 

But everyone pretty much universally understands that Stevens is a top basketball mind and that this was a hire from within that had been groomed for the position. 

Edit: I didn't listen to the entire thing, but did Steven A mention that James Jones went straight from playing to being named VP of Basketball Ops for the Phoenix Suns? So, these things are happening. 

Agreed. NBA is vastly ahead of MLB/NFL though when it comes to hiring minority coachs/execs. I think the issue can be raised....black coaches are down by 1/2 from just 10 years ago when they made up about 50% of all coaches and a big reason for this is that in that same time frame ex players that were nba coaches is down from 77% to basically half that. NBA has gone away from players being head coaches...with varying degrees of success (Pop, Spoelstra, Stevens, Vogel, Snyder all non player successful coaches). So I can see where he coming from....but I think it is worth studying what is happening there. Is it that players from the 70's and 80's stayed in the game and got into coaching because outside the superstars most weren't paid such that they could simply retire freely and the modern players even mediocre are financially set? Is it players are leaving the nba and focusing their money and attention to other business ventures more? Or is it something else. No doubt there is a trend...and I can see why speaking up on it is important. I think one can say if a black man is not an ex nba player they have almost no chance to break into nba coaching while white men who increasingly have no nba experience continue to get hired to assistant coaches and later promoted. Anyways way to much info and stuff to get into to figure all that out here....but Steven A has an hour show or whatever...he isn't going to break it down..he is just going to make an outlandish gesture to make a point....one that will simply be written off by others around the game as Steven A being Steven A. If he would put research and facts and work into writing an article or before bringing it to the media and blowing up he would have a much much stronger arguement and probably foster much better dialog on this subject...one that in premise he is probably correct...but goes about addressing it in the worst way (in my opinion).

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Agreed. NBA is vastly ahead of MLB/NFL though when it comes to hiring minority coachs/execs. I think the issue can be raised....black coaches are down by 1/2 from just 10 years ago when they made up about 50% of all coaches and a big reason for this is that in that same time frame ex players that were nba coaches is down from 77% to basically half that. NBA has gone away from players being head coaches...with varying degrees of success (Pop, Spoelstra, Stevens, Vogel, Snyder all non player successful coaches). So I can see where he coming from....but I think it is worth studying what is happening there. Is it that players from the 70's and 80's stayed in the game and got into coaching because outside the superstars most weren't paid such that they could simply retire freely and the modern players even mediocre are financially set? Is it players are leaving the nba and focusing their money and attention to other business ventures more? Or is it something else. No doubt there is a trend...and I can see why speaking up on it is important. I think one can say if a black man is not an ex nba player they have almost no chance to break into nba coaching while white men who increasingly have no nba experience continue to get hired to assistant coaches and later promoted. Anyways way to much info and stuff to get into to figure all that out here....but Steven A has an hour show or whatever...he isn't going to break it down..he is just going to make an outlandish gesture to make a point....one that will simply be written off by others around the game as Steven A being Steven A. If he would put research and facts and work into writing an article or before bringing it to the media and blowing up he would have a much much stronger arguement and probably foster much better dialog on this subject...one that in premise he is probably correct...but goes about addressing it in the worst way (in my opinion).

You bring up some great and really interesting points. And, I wholeheartedly agree that the issue is something that needs to be addressed, especially at the front office level as well. 

I don't disagree with Steven A whatsoever, I just think when you pick a situation that really isn't applicable then you tend to lose peoples attention on what is a really important issue. 

Really interesting points though on former players not needing the money, being interested in more profitable ventures, etc., etc. There is no denying that it is infinitely more difficult for a black person that isn't a former player to become a coach or GM than it is for a white person. 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

You bring up some great and really interesting points. And, I wholeheartedly agree that the issue is something that needs to be addressed, especially at the front office level as well. 

I don't disagree with Steven A whatsoever, I just think when you pick a situation that really isn't applicable then you tend to lose peoples attention on what is a really important issue. 

Really interesting points though on former players not needing the money, being interested in more profitable ventures, etc., etc. There is no denying that it is infinitely more difficult for a black person that isn't a former player to become a coach or GM than it is for a white person. 

Yep. Definitely context is really really important. When you protest something that "offends" that aren't clearly an offense and when you do it in such ways like storming off/or what we see today in holding up traffic in the streets and attacking things your message gets muddied and honestly shut down because people see the reactions etc and just tune it out. If you cry wolf every time same thing. Like you I definitely think there is a point that needs to be made/addressed and there is something there to be looked at and discussed...but man you make it almost impossible to garner support when you pick this "mountain" like you said to die on. There just isn't much there there on this one. Now...for example look what happened in Minnesota...you had son of a famous coach get handed the keys and then failed....loses his job and immediately poached Chris Finch from Toronto (not saying he isn't well regarded because he is but they basically hired him before they fired Saunders)...or Stan Van Gundy in New Orleans replacing Alvin Gentry who did they really give much a chance to coach that young team? It's like ok...we think we are ready to take that next step...we are done with you and once we got good we gotta get a bigger name...even if it's a bad retread. I don't know...things like that. This one just seems like overreacting...especially when we don't know it may very well be a new black coach hired.

Edited June 2, 2021 by dgambill

[BGleas]

I would add Kara Lawson to the list of candidates for the Celtics. Heard great things about her when she was a Celtics assistant. 

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I would add Kara Lawson to the list of candidates for the Celtics. Heard great things about her when she was a Celtics assistant. 

That would be interesting! Would Steven A have to give a retraction then?? Black and woman.

[rico]

7 hours ago, dgambill said:

In other news....summer is hot...back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[dwtaylor1055]

Luka is so good.  saw a stat where he either scored or assisted on all but 4 shots in last nights game.  Man if Mavericks could get another star, yes Kristaps can be a star but he goes missing way too often, the Mavericks could make deep runs consistently.  

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Luka is so good.  saw a stat where he either scored or assisted on all but 4 shots in last nights game.  Man if Mavericks could get another star, yes Kristaps can be a star but he goes missing way too often, the Mavericks could make deep runs consistently.  

Porzingis & Hardaway's contracts were killers. At the time he looked like he was projecting all-nba type but now he is a borderline all-star. He just can't stay healthy. If I was Dallas I would love to move him for some good young pieces and build around a true team. They just don't have enough consistent shooting around him. I mean Hardaway Jr. and Kleber are just not starting caliber players in the NBA. Great bench pieces but they need huge upgrades around Luka or he will just have entire defenses forcing him to give up the ball and defending him. I believe Dallas will have about 20 million in cap space this offseason with Hardaway a FA so not room for a star but definitely an upgrade. Still they have no bench and even mediocre starters around them. Honestly if I looked at them TJ Warren and Myles Turner would fit alongside Luka quite nicely. Salaries match up to Porzingis....I don't want him for the Pacers but perhaps a 3 team deal that would land us draft picks or young players. That would still leave Dallas 20 million from Hardaway coming off the books to sure up depth. I just don't think they are well served long term having that big contract...especially when Luka comes up for his as well.

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Porzingis & Hardaway's contracts were killers. At the time he looked like he was projecting all-nba type but now he is a borderline all-star. He just can't stay healthy. If I was Dallas I would love to move him for some good young pieces and build around a true team. They just don't have enough consistent shooting around him. I mean Hardaway Jr. and Kleber are just not starting caliber players in the NBA. Great bench pieces but they need huge upgrades around Luka or he will just have entire defenses forcing him to give up the ball and defending him. I believe Dallas will have about 20 million in cap space this offseason with Hardaway a FA so not room for a star but definitely an upgrade. Still they have no bench and even mediocre starters around them. Honestly if I looked at them TJ Warren and Myles Turner would fit alongside Luka quite nicely. Salaries match up to Porzingis....I don't want him for the Pacers but perhaps a 3 team deal that would land us draft picks or young players. That would still leave Dallas 20 million from Hardaway coming off the books to sure up depth. I just don't think they are well served long term having that big contract...especially when Luka comes up for his as well.

You're working hard to get Turner and Warren traded 🤣

[dgambill]

16 minutes ago, BGleas said:

You're working hard to get Turner and Warren traded 🤣

I just want to shake up the team lol. Tired of same ol same ol. I want some optimism for the future. I also like this draft especially too. That said I think the Pacers have some of the best trade chips of any team this offseason. Brogdon, Warren, Turner are all really good starters in that 20 million and under contracts that are a little easier to trade for if you want to move a young player or not give up a star to get. For whatever reason the Pacers are not the sum of their parts. However I would like to build a young team around Sabonis and Levert then any of the other guys. So you stay somewhat competitive but you would have a young up tempo team hopefully. If it doesn't work out then you can truly cash in your biggest chips in Sabonis and go full rebuild but either way I think you need to change it up. As for sending Myles and TJ to Dallas. TJ is the perfect small ball 4. Not only that he might have one of the highest 3pt% in the entire league from the corner. He showed what he is capable of in the bubble last year. Myles fits Carlisle philosophy much better too. He is a rim protector, can defend out on the perimeter and can work the pick n roll with Luka. It really makes a lot of sense. Just have to find a team willing to part with young assets/picks for Porzingis because I don't want him. lol

PS....when I pose a trade I always make sure it works financially first with a trade machine etc. I don't just make up trades that are impossible $$ wise. There is some method to the madness...even if it's a long shot to actually happen.

Edited June 3, 2021 by dgambill

[ATX_sig]

THJ has been awesome this year and last year.  He is a solid starter and reaching JET levels in Dallas.  Like JET he goes cold for a game or 2 but winds up shooting nearly 40% from the arc for the season. He is average defender and plays extremely hard.  He provides leadership and will accept a role starting or off the bench. I think he hated being on a poorly run team like the Knicks and losing. I think he wants to stay in Dallas. 

Kleber is playing with an achilles issue.  He is a solid rotation player on any team with his 3 and D game.  What does it matter if you start or come off the bench.  Either way he usually is around 25 minutes. 

I hope KP can get thru the playoffs without any injury setbacks.  He is only 25 and one of the more gifted offensive players in the league. He has averaged 20 and 9 plus rebounds in his 2 subpar season with Dallas.  He just needs to have an off season of strength building not rehab. Just when he start putting up a stretch of games averaging 25 and 10, he has a setback and misses a week of games then seems to have to start over.  I do think the Mavs will entertain offers this off season but doubt they be shopping him. It will be more like what are you offering when someone calls.   

Would you offer Brogdon and Turner for Brunson, Richardson, KP?  

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, ATX_sig said:

Would you offer Brogdon and Turner for Brunson, Richardson, KP?  

As a Pacers fan, I would do that in a heartbeat. I don't think the Mavs would do it, though. 

[FKIM01]

This seems like an appropriate place to state that I too think LeBron is a talented D-Bag.

That is all.

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

THJ has been awesome this year and last year.  He is a solid starter and reaching JET levels in Dallas.  Like JET he goes cold for a game or 2 but winds up shooting nearly 40% from the arc for the season. He is average defender and plays extremely hard.  He provides leadership and will accept a role starting or off the bench. I think he hated being on a poorly run team like the Knicks and losing. I think he wants to stay in Dallas. 

Kleber is playing with an achilles issue.  He is a solid rotation player on any team with his 3 and D game.  What does it matter if you start or come off the bench.  Either way he usually is around 25 minutes. 

I hope KP can get thru the playoffs without any injury setbacks.  He is only 25 and one of the more gifted offensive players in the league. He has averaged 20 and 9 plus rebounds in his 2 subpar season with Dallas.  He just needs to have an off season of strength building not rehab. Just when he start putting up a stretch of games averaging 25 and 10, he has a setback and misses a week of games then seems to have to start over.  I do think the Mavs will entertain offers this off season but doubt they be shopping him. It will be more like what are you offering when someone calls.   

Would you offer Brogdon and Turner for Brunson, Richardson, KP?  

Starting matters because it's about depth. If Hardaway and Kleber are coming off the bench as your 6th/7th men, then that means you have two better players starting in their positions. That is a deep team that is probably a legit title contender. 

As currently constructed, the Mavs need Luka to be Superman to win a title. Don't get me wrong they're still a good team, and with the Lakers so banged up I could see Dallas making a run to the Finals, but having Hardaway and Kleber off the bench makes Dallas a legit, deep contender.  

[ATX_sig]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Starting matters because it's about depth. If Hardaway and Kleber are coming off the bench as your 6th/7th men, then that means you have two better players starting in their positions. That is a deep team that is probably a legit title contender. 

As currently constructed, the Mavs need Luka to be Superman to win a title. Don't get me wrong they're still a good team, and with the Lakers so banged up I could see Dallas making a run to the Finals, but having Hardaway and Kleber off the bench makes Dallas a legit, deep contender.  

I'm just saying THJ is a starting caliber NBA player whether they play him off the bench or as a starter. There is no rule that a starter is a better player than a bench player.  Same with Kleber if he plays 24 minutes as a starter but is on the bench during closing time. He is part of the rotation.  Jason Terry when he was on the Mavs was one of the top players on the team in their title year and he came off the bench for around 30 minutes a game. He was always in the game in crunch time.  THJ came off the bench all year behind Richardson and DFS until the last couple of weeks when he was playing out of his mind.  I don't know if he was in the running for 6th man of year but should have been. He really picked up his scoring when KP was out.  He pretty much forced RC to swap him and Richardson's rotation spots though both were playing upper 20's per game.  THJ has put in a ton of work to improve his strength and game since joining the Mavs. He is a legit starter in the NBA.  I didn't want him when the deal was made because I believed they were taking on a salary dump and head case of sorts just to land KP.  His leadership and professional attitude are outstanding.

I understand what the Mavs are and what Luka needs to be for their playoff success  They are a bottom 5 team without him.  I agree they could improve the top end of the roster after Luka and that is the next step in the evolution of the build around Luka. They actually might of had a nice draft so they will need to make some moves. Hopefully some of those guys like Green and Bey can come off the bench and so maybe they can do a deal.  My hope DFS and THJ stay and play their 30mpg and the changes come from elsewhere.

The Mavs top 7 rotation players all are solid players. I'd rank them like this.  

Luka

KP

THJ

DFS

Richardson

Kleber

Brunson

 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, ATX_sig said:

I'm just saying THJ is a starting caliber NBA player whether they play him off the bench or as a starter. There is no rule that a starter is a better player than a bench player.  Same with Kleber if he plays 24 minutes as a starter but is on the bench during closing time. He is part of the rotation.  Jason Terry when he was on the Mavs was one of the top players on the team in their title year and he came off the bench for around 30 minutes a game. He was always in the game in crunch time.  THJ came off the bench all year behind Richardson and DFS until the last couple of weeks when he was playing out of his mind.  I don't know if he was in the running for 6th man of year but should have been. He really picked up his scoring when KP was out.  He pretty much forced RC to swap him and Richardson's rotation spots though both were playing upper 20's per game.  THJ has put in a ton of work to improve his strength and game since joining the Mavs. He is a legit starter in the NBA.  I didn't want him when the deal was made because I believed they were taking on a salary dump and head case of sorts just to land KP.  His leadership and professional attitude are outstanding.

I understand what the Mavs are and what Luka needs to be for their playoff success  They are a bottom 5 team without him.  I agree they could improve the top end of the roster after Luka and that is the next step in the evolution of the build around Luka. They actually might of had a nice draft so they will need to make some moves. Hopefully some of those guys like Green and Bey can come off the bench and so maybe they can do a deal.  My hope DFS and THJ stay and play their 30mpg and the changes come from elsewhere.

The Mavs top 7 rotation players all are solid players. I'd rank them like this.  

Luka

KP

THJ

DFS

Richardson

Kleber

Brunson

 

I like Powell a lot, too. I understand he has a lot of limitations, but he rebounds, defends, and finishes at the rim when he is called on. 

[rico]

Lakers suck.

[dbmhoosier]

1 hour ago, rico said:

Lakers suck.

 

[Hoosier51]

Lebron going out in the first round and possibly Paul George, man life is good. Hopefully someone knocks out the Nets, I might actually watch the finals if that happened lol.

[NotIThatLives]

Devin Booker.  Wow dude.  15-22 with 11 boards.  

All the complaining about iso clear out ball clearly haven't watched this clinic.  The ball moves so fast you cant keep up with it, next thing you know its falling through the bottom of the net.  

If you enjoy watching LeBron lose, watch this.   

 

[dgambill]

18 hours ago, ATX_sig said:

THJ has been awesome this year and last year.  He is a solid starter and reaching JET levels in Dallas.  Like JET he goes cold for a game or 2 but winds up shooting nearly 40% from the arc for the season. He is average defender and plays extremely hard.  He provides leadership and will accept a role starting or off the bench. I think he hated being on a poorly run team like the Knicks and losing. I think he wants to stay in Dallas. 

Kleber is playing with an achilles issue.  He is a solid rotation player on any team with his 3 and D game.  What does it matter if you start or come off the bench.  Either way he usually is around 25 minutes. 

I hope KP can get thru the playoffs without any injury setbacks.  He is only 25 and one of the more gifted offensive players in the league. He has averaged 20 and 9 plus rebounds in his 2 subpar season with Dallas.  He just needs to have an off season of strength building not rehab. Just when he start putting up a stretch of games averaging 25 and 10, he has a setback and misses a week of games then seems to have to start over.  I do think the Mavs will entertain offers this off season but doubt they be shopping him. It will be more like what are you offering when someone calls.   

Would you offer Brogdon and Turner for Brunson, Richardson, KP?  

I only do  that deal if Pacers can line up a third team because I don't like the combo of Sabonis/KP....it's even worse than Sabonis/Turner. Losing Brogdon and Turner that would require quite a haul from the 3rd team. I wouldn't want a star etc because I would want to rebuild younger but I'm sure the Pacers wouldn't do it because they will just run the same thing out there and hope to get a 5 seed and be out in the first rd of the playoffs.

All I was saying about Kleber and THJ is that they are nice pieces. Hardaway is indeed over paid but that was just part of the deal. He is pretty streaky. If you could move him to that second unit I  think he would be much more efficient plus he would get more favorable matchups against opponents bench. So saying an upgrade is need if your going to make a run at a championship is just the truth. Luka is plain and simple just asked to carry too big a load. I love Luka..and in a weird way I like Cuban (basketball wise) so out of the west I certainly would root for them and hope they can make the adjustments necessary. I think I always kinda liked the Mavs a little from the Nelson days because I enjoyed him with the Warriors and with those late 90's early 2000s Mavs. Add to the fact they beat the heavily favored Heat with Lebron, Wade, & Bosh for the championship and who wouldn't have been a fan. Anyways I agree with you...they have to make some changes...but the only player I think that could free up the cap space or net you multiple quality starters/depth is KP.

[BGleas]

Will never happen, but every GM in the league must be calling Portland today...

Jaylen Brown/Romeo Langford for Dame Lilliard. Of course the Celtics would have to throw in several picks, and then find a trade partner for Kemba. 

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5g7jh6m