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1 hour ago, Inequality said:

 

I wondered about a Horford reunion. Boston had to part with a valuable pick to move Kemba's contract. I suspect OKC will just flip him in a year for more picks or a young player when he is an expiring contract. Not sure how much Horford has to offer honestly...played so little this year....Moses Brown on the other hand is interesting. I had him on my fantasy team for a few weeks when I had some injuries....kind of like TIMELORD....he is a pretty good rim defender and very athletic rebounder. Good fit next to Williams for the Celtics to help their front court. Nice move honestly....if the Celtics could somehow attain a legit point guard they may be on to something. What do you think @BGleas ?  

 

Oh...and Sam Presti has done a great job....flipped bad contracts for each other....but basically this is Moses Brown for the #16 pick....a g leaguer just earlier this year....for almost a lotter pick....NICE! Look at all the assets OKC has....small market and they aren't afraid to rebuild through the draft...Pacers should take note!

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31 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I wondered about a Horford reunion. Boston had to part with a valuable pick to move Kemba's contract. I suspect OKC will just flip him in a year for more picks or a young player when he is an expiring contract. Not sure how much Horford has to offer honestly...played so little this year....Moses Brown on the other hand is interesting. I had him on my fantasy team for a few weeks when I had some injuries....kind of like TIMELORD....he is a pretty good rim defender and very athletic rebounder. Good fit next to Williams for the Celtics to help their front court. Nice move honestly....if the Celtics could somehow attain a legit point guard they may be on to something. What do you think @BGleas ?  

 

Oh...and Sam Presti has done a great job....flipped bad contracts for each other....but basically this is Moses Brown for the #16 pick....a g leaguer just earlier this year....for almost a lotter pick....NICE! Look at all the assets OKC has....small market and they aren't afraid to rebuild through the draft...Pacers should take note!

At the end of the day, the Celtics basically drafted Moses Brown with the 16th pick. Horford and Kemba was a salary dump for both, though the Celtics will need to find a way to replace Kemba's offensive production. 

For the Celtics standpoint, this trade will be judged when we learn what other moves the Celtics make this summer. There's a lot of talk about going after Lonzo Ball for the PG spot, though I'm not sure how well he plays next to Marcus Smart which would be backcourt of two subpar shooters. 

But that's why I need to wait for other moves to judge this one for the Celtics. If they do get Ball, maybe they then look to trade Smart with some other pieces? Does Horford even make it to Boston? 

A lot of unknowns still before this one can be judged. 

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12 hours ago, IU Scott said:

There are now 7 openings and the Pacers will have trouble getting one of the top candidates.  Here is how I would rank the job openings.

Boston.

Dallas.

Portland.

New Orleans.

Washington.

Indiana.

Orlando.

I agree with this order as well. I think Washington is a better job because yo have 2 stars if you can keep them that is. Also I feel they have better young talent as well.

Edited by Billingsley99
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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Wow trading away first round picks to just get rid of a player

They basically traded the 16th pick for Moses Brown who is a 21 year old 7-2 center who averaged 8ppg and 9rpg in 20mpg this season. You're most likely not getting that production from the 16th pick. 

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11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

They basically traded the 16th pick for Moses Brown who is a 21 year old 7-2 center who averaged 8ppg and 9rpg in 20mpg this season. You're most likely not getting that production from the 16th pick. 

John Stockton says hello............

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19 minutes ago, BGleas said:

At the end of the day, the Celtics basically drafted Moses Brown with the 16th pick. Horford and Kemba was a salary dump for both, though the Celtics will need to find a way to replace Kemba's offensive production. 

For the Celtics standpoint, this trade will be judged when we learn what other moves the Celtics make this summer. There's a lot of talk about going after Lonzo Ball for the PG spot, though I'm not sure how well he plays next to Marcus Smart which would be backcourt of two subpar shooters. 

But that's why I need to wait for other moves to judge this one for the Celtics. If they do get Ball, maybe they then look to trade Smart with some other pieces? Does Horford even make it to Boston? 

A lot of unknowns still before this one can be judged. 

Yes very much so. I imagine Horford probably gets stretched and waived or whatever they call it. They are losing shooting and scoring for sure. They will have to make moves to address that. No doubt they have to find a shooter. I don't know their cap situation to know if they can afford Ball etc. The fit like you explain also comes into consideration. I actually wonder if a guy like Collin Sexton would be a target but with the 16th pick out not sure now they have the ammo. (thought that pick plus young assets like Romeo and Nesmeith might get it done. This definitely won't be the only move for sure.

I wonder what you thought of Brown honestly because he is the real piece you get back in return. 7'2 and while very raw he has can give you good rim protection and length on the boards. Very interesting player for sure. Honestly I think you guys should now look to move off Smart. I don't think your window is next year...and to lock up Smart long term...talking probably 20-25 million when he is a free agent next year...I think get value now because I don't think you want to limit your cap flexibility down the road in 2-3 years when Tatum and Brown are hitting their prime with the offensive limitations Smart offers. A traditional pg or sg that can stroke from distance or play off ball makes sense.

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24 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I agree with this order as well. I think Washington is a better job because yo have 2 stars if you can keep them that is. Also I feel they have better young talent as well.

Washington is by far a more attractive market for FA then Indy...it isn't even close...both teams have tradable assets...nothing about Indy screams championship caliber organization. In fact the reputation of the organization the past half dozen years has taken a HUGE hit.

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7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yes very much so. I imagine Horford probably gets stretched and waived or whatever they call it. They are losing shooting and scoring for sure. They will have to make moves to address that. No doubt they have to find a shooter. I don't know their cap situation to know if they can afford Ball etc. The fit like you explain also comes into consideration. I actually wonder if a guy like Collin Sexton would be a target but with the 16th pick out not sure now they have the ammo. (thought that pick plus young assets like Romeo and Nesmeith might get it done. This definitely won't be the only move for sure.

I wonder what you thought of Brown honestly because he is the real piece you get back in return. 7'2 and while very raw he has can give you good rim protection and length on the boards. Very interesting player for sure. Honestly I think you guys should now look to move off Smart. I don't think your window is next year...and to lock up Smart long term...talking probably 20-25 million when he is a free agent next year...I think get value now because I don't think you want to limit your cap flexibility down the road in 2-3 years when Tatum and Brown are hitting their prime with the offensive limitations Smart offers. A traditional pg or sg that can stroke from distance or play off ball makes sense.

Completely agree with everything. I think Smart has to be the next move. This won't be easy to pull off for Stevens, but in order to compete with Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, etc., he's got to find a way over the next year or so to get the Celtics another star player without having to give up Jaylen Brown to do so. 

They need to add a star to Tatum and Brown, and the only real assets they have at this point beyond future picks and the remaining trade exception from the Hayward deal, and maybe a sign and trade with Fournier, is moving Marcus Smart. 

I love Smart, but I think his time is running out in Boston. As you said, Stevens needs to do whatever he can to position the Celtics to be a title contender in the next 3 seasons as we head into the prime of Tatum and Brown. 

I don't think the Celtics have the assets currently and I actually don't love this guy, but you have to think at some point over the next year or two you'll hear rumblings about KAT. 

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10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Washington is by far a more attractive market for FA then Indy...it isn't even close...both teams have tradable assets...nothing about Indy screams championship caliber organization. In fact the reputation of the organization the past half dozen years has taken a HUGE hit.

I don't know, I think Indy has been the far more stable and competitive franchise over the last 20-30 years. Obviously DC is a much bigger market, but I see much more instability in DC. As a coach, you're wondering if you can really win with Westbrook? When will Beal ask out of town? Why has the front office been so inept for so long?

The flip side you have in Washington is that if the GM can pull a rabbit out of his hat and somehow add another quasi star to Beal and Westbrook, then there is probably a quicker path to being a contender than in Indy. 

But, I just view the Wizards as a much more volatile situation and poorly run franchise. 

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8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree with everything. I think Smart has to be the next move. This won't be easy to pull off for Stevens, but in order to compete with Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, etc., he's got to find a way over the next year or so to get the Celtics another star player without having to give up Jaylen Brown to do so. 

They need to add a star to Tatum and Brown, and the only real assets they have at this point beyond future picks and the remaining trade exception from the Hayward deal, and maybe a sign and trade with Fournier, is moving Marcus Smart. 

I love Smart, but I think his time is running out in Boston. As you said, Stevens needs to do whatever he can to position the Celtics to be a title contender in the next 3 seasons as we head into the prime of Tatum and Brown. 

I don't think the Celtics have the assets currently and I actually don't love this guy, but you have to think at some point over the next year or two you'll hear rumblings about KAT. 

If Minnesota goes full tank next year (KAT gets hurt or something)....and he is disgruntled they have to consider building around Edwards and future picks. KAT might go all AD...but you'd have to trade Brown for sure in that deal...a package very similar to Lakers....and even then you need a couple of your young bench guys to break out and really show some prospect. It's a nice dream....and sometimes dreams come true!

Most importantly you have to position yourself for such a deal...and I don't think Smart long term would allow you to do so.

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Just now, dgambill said:

If Minnesota goes full tank next year (KAT gets hurt or something)....and he is disgruntled they have to consider building around Edwards and future picks. KAT might go all AD...but you'd have to trade Brown for sure in that deal...a package very similar to Lakers....and even then you need a couple of your young bench guys to break out and really show some prospect. It's a nice dream....and sometimes dreams come true!

Most importantly you have to position yourself for such a deal.

Yup, the trick for Brad Stevens is figuring out a way to add another star without giving up Brown. It might not be possible, but IMO that his biggest job over the next year or so. 

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3 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

so Robert Williams or Moses Brown?  

You mean who do I like better or do the Celtics keep both? I think they keep both. You can never have too many long, athletic bigs in this day and age, and so far both guys have been around 20mpg guys, though Williams was playing more towards the end of the season when healthy. 

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Just now, BGleas said:

You mean who do I like better or do the Celtics keep both? I think they keep both. You can never have too many long, athletic bigs in this day and age, and so far both guys have been around 20mpg guys, though Williams was playing more towards the end of the season when healthy. 

both could co-exist together with one starting and one as their direct backup for years to come

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4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don't know, I think Indy has been the far more stable and competitive franchise over the last 20-30 years. Obviously DC is a much bigger market, but I see much more instability in DC. As a coach, you're wondering if you can really win with Westbrook? When will Beal ask out of town? Why has the front office been so inept for so long?

The flip side you have in Washington is that if the GM can pull a rabbit out of his hat and somehow add another quasi star to Beal and Westbrook, then there is probably a quicker path to being a contender than in Indy. 

But, I just view the Wizards as a much more volatile situation and poorly run franchise. 

Long term yes but have you seen Indy front office lately...have you seen their best players all ask for trades...hard to build anything around that.

All depends on the direction Washington is moving for sure....I can see them trade Westbrook to NY for draft assets and then do the same with Beal to say GS for even a bigger haul. Be a total Philly like rebuild but at least they would have a direction...either way the Pacers have no plan....just try to land a playoff spot every year and turn a profit for Simon.

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Just now, dwtaylor1055 said:

both could co-exist together with one starting and one as their direct backup for years to come

Absolutely. The flip side is, either one would be an attractive add to a larger trade. Not sure who the targets would be, but you trade Smart, Williams/Moses Brown and Nesmith/Langford and a some picks and you can probably get a nice return of a good player for that, but you'd still have either Williams or Brown on the team. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yup, the trick for Brad Stevens is figuring out a way to add another star without giving up Brown. It might not be possible, but IMO that his biggest job over the next year or so. 

Or surround the two with excellent role players like the Hawks have done. I mean getting Bogs from the Kings was a fleecing and adding tons of shooters like Huerter and Gallinari plus adding vets like Williams and Capela to the young core of Collins and Young. Young is really the only star on that team....so it can be done even without another super star.

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2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Long term yes but have you seen Indy front office lately...have you seen their best players all ask for trades...hard to build anything around that.

All depends on the direction Washington is moving for sure....I can see them trade Westbrook to NY for draft assets and then do the same with Beal to say GS for even a bigger haul. Be a total Philly like rebuild but at least they would have a direction...either way the Pacers have no plan....just try to land a playoff spot every year and turn a profit for Simon.

At that point it depends on the type of coach. For example, if Washington is blowing it up, then I'd imagine a Rick Carlisle or Mike D'Antonio would view Indy better. A younger coach or established assistant getting his first shot might look at a rebuild in Washington as a safer move with some leeway. 

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6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

You mean who do I like better or do the Celtics keep both? I think they keep both. You can never have too many long, athletic bigs in this day and age, and so far both guys have been around 20mpg guys, though Williams was playing more towards the end of the season when healthy. 

No doubt they needed another athletic big. I mean with Embiid and Giannis and the likes you always need rim protection.

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Just now, dgambill said:

Or surround the two with excellent role players like the Hawks have done. I mean getting Bogs from the Kings was a fleecing and adding tons of shooters like Huerter and Gallinari plus adding vets like Williams and Capela to the young core of Collins and Young. Young is really the only star on that team....so it can be done even without another super star.

True, though I don't view the Hawks as real contenders, even if they win this series. They've good, don't get me wrong, but in a healthy NBA they're not a real contender. They got lucky a bit with their draw. Not saying they aren't good by any means, and I completely agree on how they've built the team and the Bogs acquisition, but I don't view them as a true title contender, even if they win this series. 

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