NBA Thread

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I don't understand this trade offer.  I don't understand why Philly would turn that down either.  

I wonder if somebody in Philly is making stuff up to try to drum up a higher trade. This could totally be a fake trade scenario that they floated acting like they turn this down trying to get somebody to make a better offer.  As somewhat of a Pacers fan I would not be very happy with this trade

You're not getting Ben Simmons for less than Brogdon and a 1st. I understand that his value is probably as low as its been, but he's still a multiple time all-star, a first team all-defense guy, etc., etc.  

Three months ago he could have pulled an even swap for James Harden. 

[BobSaccamanno]

On 7/1/2021 at 12:22 PM, ATX_sig said:

Playoff CHris Paul?  There is a first for everything.  I hope the Suns and his hammy hold up this year.  At least they had a magical season but reality is they would hve been gone in round 1 had it not been for injury to AD.  This will truly go down as the Season of Survival. IMO, the Lakers, clips, Jazz, Philly and Nets are all better than what is left in these playoffs had they been healthy.    Maybe Denver too with Murray. I'd say the Bucks but man their low IQ basketball makes it hard for me to believe they'd win it all with the massive amount of injuries.  I was rooting for them because Giannis put the drama to rest about his max contract and just signed it.  I expect he is gone now too even they manage to win the Hawks series.

I kind of liked the Suns back when they had Hornacek and Majerle.  That was a fun team with KJ breaking defenders ankles off the bounce.  I loved Hornacek as a player.  He looked more like an accountant than an NBA player but he was tough.

Interesting you mentioned Paul’s injures.  But he seems to be holding up now even though he’s getting up there.  This must be his 16th season or so.  You never know, anybody can get hurt at any time.  The Nets are interesting.  They might be able to catch lightning in a bottle next year by avoiding injuries through four playoff series.  But their three guys all have had a history of lower leg injuries.  Harden is a walking hammy pull.  Kyrie has been out for an extended period or in the playoffs, what, half a dozen of his years going back to Duke?  Some guys aren’t built with that durability gene, e.g., to support the ankle, knee, every time it lands funny (this is basketball, that’s inevitable), etc.  It’s not just some fluky thing.  Every single player can twist something any time. But some guys can hold up better.  Will Kyrie, Harden, and Durant all hold up through four playoff series?  It’s possible but good luck with that.  You have to factor that in with them.  

The Bucks low IQ seems to be a function of coaching and Giannis to a degree.  Giannis coming to the line late in a game, you can chalk up an 0-2 with an air ball possible.  I wouldn’t say low IQ at all about Middleton or Jrue Holiday.  Very under-appreciated players  

Hawks have done a good job drafting.  They have all of these guys they have collected high in the draft who seem to be working out so kudos for that.  Not just Young.  Collins, Hunter, Huerter even Reddish in the future.   Throw in a couple of veterans in Bogdanovich and Capela and they’ve pieced it together.  Nate McMillan is a good coach. 

I have watched a ton of playoff series.  It’s been a very good playoff season.  Some new blood out there, and not the same old guys and teams, which makes it much more fun to me.  It would be great if college football could get this way.   But it’s interesting watching guys you hear about who get paid based on regular season stuff.  Watching these playoffs, we have seen some players step up and thrive and others show how limited they are.  I really don’t care if you hit seven threes against Charlotte when they are on a back to back in January.   You can see how coaches completely hide guys on defense or vice verse.  Take a look at Joe Harris.  Yikes.  That guy is a slow twitch dude.  It’s not just the shooting slump, if you want to call it that (more likely a reality check when things got real).  He is awful on both ends.  Doesn’t do the little things. Misses rebounds, etc.  

[BobSaccamanno]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

You're not getting Ben Simmons for less than Brogdon and a 1st. I understand that his value is probably as low as its been, but he's still a multiple time all-star, a first team all-defense guy, etc., etc.  

Three months ago he could have pulled an even swap for James Harden. 

Maybe for future potential if he has it in him (a huge question mark based on what we just saw).  He is an excellent defender and tremendous passer.    At the same time, he literally turned down an open dunk because he was terrified of getting fouled.  I saw that live and that’s the kind of thing that sticks on you.  And if the Sixers played Brogdon, they would probably still be alive right now with his 21.2 scoring ability and his consistent near-50/40/90 shooting.  That’s a pretty strong offer.  Not lopsided at all.  Pacers would be taking a big risk that Simmons never becomes a shooter and lacks the killer instinct gene.

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

I don't understand this trade offer.  I don't understand why Philly would turn that down either.  

I wonder if somebody in Philly is making stuff up to try to drum up a higher trade. This could totally be a fake trade scenario that they floated acting like they turn this down trying to get somebody to make a better offer.  As somewhat of a Pacers fan I would not be very happy with this trade

I wouldn’t be happy if that was the only trade we were making…it wouldn’t make sense given our current offense. We would have basically 4 guys starting that aren’t 3pt threats. I imagine we would be making further moves to best suit the team. I think everyone sees Ben is a point forward and probably best fits at the 4. Also if I’m going Ben and more defensive then I’m probably looking to keep Myles for rim protection and moving Sabonis for a scoring point guard/combo guard. We know Carlisle likes a defensive oriented team so maybe that would be the direction. Anyways I still don’t buy the trade offer because Pacers always operate on the down low and they wouldn’t want this out in the public hurting their relationship with their players.

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

I don't understand this trade offer.  I don't understand why Philly would turn that down either.  

I wonder if somebody in Philly is making stuff up to try to drum up a higher trade. This could totally be a fake trade scenario that they floated acting like they turn this down trying to get somebody to make a better offer.  As somewhat of a Pacers fan I would not be very happy with this trade

Me neither.  Dude is not intelligent and is not a winner.

[KoB2011]

7 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Me neither.  Dude is not intelligent and is not a winner.

Ben Simmons isn’t intelligent? I’ll agree he’s a head case but I think he’s a very high IQ player. 

[NotIThatLives]

20 hours ago, BGleas said:

You're not getting Ben Simmons for less than Brogdon and a 1st. I understand that his value is probably as low as its been, but he's still a multiple time all-star, a first team all-defense guy, etc., etc.  

Three months ago he could have pulled an even swap for James Harden. 

That wasn't an even swap.  Houston wanted quite a bit more.  "Initially, it was reported that the Sixers offered a package centered on Simmons, Matisse Thybulle and draft compensation, but would not go so far as to include rookie Tyrese Maxey"

Im not saying Brogdon or Lamb are world beaters either.  Im down to trade them.  If they bring Simmons in somehow then Sabonis has to go and I don't think that happens.  You cant have two non shooter point forwards playing at the same time.

Back to Simmons.  Can he still be a number two guy on a contender?  Yes of he has 4 shooters surrounding him, which he did until Green went down.  

[FKIM01]

19 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Ben Simmons isn’t intelligent? I’ll agree he’s a head case but I think he’s a very high IQ player. 

At least one of his post-game interviews begs to differ.  He could barely string together sentences in one I listened to.  Maybe he has basketball intelligence, but I didn't hear even a remedial grasp of the English language. 

[Hoosier51]

Man the NBA head offices has got to hate how these playoffs have ended up. No Lebron, KD, Steph, and big ratings teams like Lakers and Miami making it to the finals, this is their worst nightmare come true. There is a very good chance these might be one of the lowest viewed finals in awhile. 

The funny thing is for me, i haven't watched a game all year and i might actually watch one now with all those teams and players not making it.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Hoosier51

[IU Scott]

Love this finals because I hope both cities give it to the cry babies from ESPN who don't want to go to these cities.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

At least one of his post-game interviews begs to differ.  He could barely string together sentences in one I listened to.  Maybe he has basketball intelligence, but I didn't hear even a remedial grasp of the English language. 

I don’t see any overlap of ones grasp of the English language and their basketball IQ. But perhaps I am wrong about that. 

[5fouls]

44 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don’t see any overlap of ones grasp of the English language and their basketball IQ. But perhaps I am wrong about that. 

Yep.  As a, what ya call it, a fan type person, I purrty good at memoralizing rules on that there game called basketalaball,  

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, Hoosier51 said:

Man the NBA head offices has got to hate how these playoffs have ended up. No Lebron, KD, Steph, and big ratings teams like Lakers and Miami making it to the finals, this is their worst nightmare come true. There is a very good chance these might be one of the lowest viewed finals in awhile. 

The funny thing is for me, i haven't watched a game all year and i might actually watch one now with all those teams and players not making it.

Only thing to make it better would be for Giannis to stay hurt and Chris Paul to go down. Ultimate nightmare is a finals with no stars.

[BeenShermin]

Any Hoosiers playing in the Finals?

[IU/Butler/Notre Dame]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:40 PM, NotIThatLives said:

That wasn't an even swap.  Houston wanted quite a bit more.  "Initially, it was reported that the Sixers offered a package centered on Simmons, Matisse Thybulle and draft compensation, but would not go so far as to include rookie Tyrese Maxey"

Im not saying Brogdon or Lamb are world beaters either.  Im down to trade them.  If they bring Simmons in somehow then Sabonis has to go and I don't think that happens.  You cant have two non shooter point forwards playing at the same time.

Back to Simmons.  Can he still be a number two guy on a contender?  Yes of he has 4 shooters surrounding him, which he did until Green went down.  

 

On 7/2/2021 at 3:42 PM, BGleas said:

You're not getting Ben Simmons for less than Brogdon and a 1st. I understand that his value is probably as low as its been, but he's still a multiple time all-star, a first team all-defense guy, etc., etc.  

Three months ago he could have pulled an even swap for James Harden. 

 

On 7/2/2021 at 6:46 PM, dgambill said:

I wouldn’t be happy if that was the only trade we were making…it wouldn’t make sense given our current offense. We would have basically 4 guys starting that aren’t 3pt threats. I imagine we would be making further moves to best suit the team. I think everyone sees Ben is a point forward and probably best fits at the 4. Also if I’m going Ben and more defensive then I’m probably looking to keep Myles for rim protection and moving Sabonis for a scoring point guard/combo guard. We know Carlisle likes a defensive oriented team so maybe that would be the direction. Anyways I still don’t buy the trade offer because Pacers always operate on the down low and they wouldn’t want this out in the public hurting their relationship with their players.

 

On 7/2/2021 at 6:52 PM, FKIM01 said:

Me neither.  Dude is not intelligent and is not a winner.

 

On 7/3/2021 at 2:01 AM, KoB2011 said:

Ben Simmons isn’t intelligent? I’ll agree he’s a head case but I think he’s a very high IQ player. 

I wanna preface this by saying I want our lineup as constituted ( that we never got to see because of injuries last year ) to have at least half a season because I think as far as small market lineups go brogdon lavert Warren Turner sabonis could be dangerous enough to have a shot.

  IF we made a trade though, which I don’t want ,  I’m with kob and BG on this one …..Simmons value even after the mess in the playoffs is at minimum brogdon and a first.  I also think that as you all pointed out brogdon warren and lavert aren’t perennial all stars but they are all one level below that and they all slash and shoot from all spots on the floor …subtracting one of the three , in this case brogdon , for a player who only shoots open lay ups and short shots adds extra touches for the other two.  Ben’s defense and passing could make for an interesting starting five and yes he can’t shoot the three and our other four wouldn’t be three point specialists but they are all four capable enough they have to be defended on the arc so it’s not like defenses can sag and pack against it.  I think it would be interesting to see Simmons and sabonis play together when they both pass as welL As they do

[dgambill]

Honestly...I just don't want any part of Ben Simmons. I agree with someone else....this guy is just not a winning basketball player. He turned down Olympics to work on his game, and immediately is spotted at Wimbledon getting smoochie face with another model. I'm sorry...when all the reports and all the players are saying the same thing...this guy is just about himself and not willing to put in the work....gotta think there is some truth to it. If you tell me this guy loves basketball...I just don't buy it. If you want to be an all time great, you get your butt in the gym...you play live basketball at a high level like the Olympics...you improve your game. Tell me one thing this guy has improved since he came into the league? His defense maybe but offensively this guy really hasn't taken a step up. I mean few guys are Kevin Durant, Lebron James etc but there is nothing that says you can't have the work ethic of those guys. I just don't see the work ethic...and if you tell me he also has a trade kicker meaning he will be making nearly 40 million...1/3 of our cap...yeah not a guy you can build a team around if you are trying to win a Championship imo. I know it might not be popular opinion but I think this guy will cost a GM their job somewhere who trades for him.

 

[KoB2011]

36 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Honestly...I just don't want any part of Ben Simmons. I agree with someone else....this guy is just not a winning basketball player. He turned down Olympics to work on his game, and immediately is spotted at Wimbledon getting smoochie face with another model. I'm sorry...when all the reports and all the players are saying the same thing...this guy is just about himself and not willing to put in the work....gotta think there is some truth to it. If you tell me this guy loves basketball...I just don't buy it. If you want to be an all time great, you get your butt in the gym...you play live basketball at a high level like the Olympics...you improve your game. Tell me one thing this guy has improved since he came into the league? His defense maybe but offensively this guy really hasn't taken a step up. I mean few guys are Kevin Durant, Lebron James etc but there is nothing that says you can't have the work ethic of those guys. I just don't see the work ethic...and if you tell me he also has a trade kicker meaning he will be making nearly 40 million...1/3 of our cap...yeah not a guy you can build a team around if you are trying to win a Championship imo. I know it might not be popular opinion but I think this guy will cost a GM their job somewhere who trades for him.

 

I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I'll add that I don't think there is anything wrong with him having other priorities. It is perfectly fine if he is content being what he is now.

He'll probably cost himself a lot of money with that approach, but it isn't like he won't have more than enough either way. 

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Honestly...I just don't want any part of Ben Simmons. I agree with someone else....this guy is just not a winning basketball player. He turned down Olympics to work on his game, and immediately is spotted at Wimbledon getting smoochie face with another model. I'm sorry...when all the reports and all the players are saying the same thing...this guy is just about himself and not willing to put in the work....gotta think there is some truth to it. If you tell me this guy loves basketball...I just don't buy it. If you want to be an all time great, you get your butt in the gym...you play live basketball at a high level like the Olympics...you improve your game. Tell me one thing this guy has improved since he came into the league? His defense maybe but offensively this guy really hasn't taken a step up. I mean few guys are Kevin Durant, Lebron James etc but there is nothing that says you can't have the work ethic of those guys. I just don't see the work ethic...and if you tell me he also has a trade kicker meaning he will be making nearly 40 million...1/3 of our cap...yeah not a guy you can build a team around if you are trying to win a Championship imo. I know it might not be popular opinion but I think this guy will cost a GM their job somewhere who trades for him.

 

Yeah, I wasn't advocating for the Pacers to trade for Simmons. I was just saying Brogdon and a 1st rounder for Simmons 8s not an unrealistic deal and the Pacers, if they wanted him, would not get him for less than that. 

[KoB2011]

11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I wasn't advocating for the Pacers to trade for Simmons. I was just saying Brogdon and a 1st rounder for Simmons 8s not an unrealistic deal and the Pacers, if they wanted him, would not get him for less than that. 

Yeah I personally want no part of him on the Pacers but that is definitely the minimum his value would be IMO. 

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I wasn't advocating for the Pacers to trade for Simmons. I was just saying Brogdon and a 1st rounder for Simmons 8s not an unrealistic deal and the Pacers, if they wanted him, would not get him for less than that. 

Oh..no doubt it's going to take either another all-star caliber player or starters plus picks to get it done. I fully understand his value (potential) in being a 24 yr old multi-all star/multi all-nba defensive player that is like 6'11 and can handle the ball, pass, and defend 1-5. Personally I just don't think this guy LOVES basketball like you want your star player to LOVE the game and the process of maximizing one's ability to reach greatness. This guy is about the NBA lifestyle...loves what the NBA avails to him. I don't get the sense this is a guy that will ever be as great as he could be if he put in the work. I'd just rather make different moves if we are going to.

[Seeking6]

Here's my contribution for the NBA Finals. Really pulling for Milwaukee. Maybe a small market team in a less than ideal location, weather, etc.......wins a title it might give the Pacers proper motivation that small market teams in the Midwest can win big because if Milwaukee can assemble a title winning....no way in the world the Pacers can't too. 

 

[Hoosier51]

5 hours ago, dgambill said:

Honestly...I just don't want any part of Ben Simmons.

To be honest i am with you on this. I don't want the Pacers to waste anything substanial on this guy. He would have one foot out the door in record time if he was traded to the Pacers. On 76ers boards they think he wants to get to L.A. and the fact that he just bought a house there means they might actually be right.

 Also he is pretty much the same player as he was as a rookie with minimal improvement, so I would say no thank to a trade for him.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Hoosier51

[rico]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:18 AM, KoB2011 said:

I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I'll add that I don't think there is anything wrong with him having other priorities. It is perfectly fine if he is content being what he is now.

He'll probably cost himself a lot of money with that approach, but it isn't like he won't have more than enough either way. 

Great post...deserves more likes.

[dgambill]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:18 AM, KoB2011 said:

I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I'll add that I don't think there is anything wrong with him having other priorities. It is perfectly fine if he is content being what he is now.

He'll probably cost himself a lot of money with that approach, but it isn't like he won't have more than enough either way. 

Yep...absolutely nothing wrong with it. His right. From an NBA GM stand point like you said it's going to cost him. Hard to say how much because someone always fools themselves into thinking they will be the one to change him/fix him. I just look at a player who comes into the league with as much or more potential then just about anyone this decade when you look at his size, skill set, athleticism and he is basically coasting. Compare that to say a guy like Devin Booker or Donavon Mitchell who are maximizing their potential and have put in numerous hours of work and reaping the benefits....I'll put my money (open up my wallet) on guys like that...the only issue is the NBA is a superstar driven league...and there just are only so many to go around....so guys like Ben who are perceived with having superstar potential will always find a large paycheck.

[rico]

12 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yep...absolutely nothing wrong with it. His right. From an NBA GM stand point like you said it's going to cost him. Hard to say how much because someone always fools themselves into thinking they will be the one to change him/fix him. I just look at a player who comes into the league with as much or more potential then just about anyone this decade when you look at his size, skill set, athleticism and he is basically coasting. Compare that to say a guy like Devin Booker or Donavon Mitchell who are maximizing their potential and have put in numerous hours of work and reaping the benefits....I'll put my money (open up my wallet) on guys like that...the only issue is the NBA is a superstar driven league...and there just are only so many to go around....so guys like Ben who are perceived with having superstar potential will always find a large paycheck.

That last sentence is the one that counts.  And quite frankly I am jealous of Simmons.