NBA Thread

[KoB2011]

20 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Oh no doubt. They will be right there and have chances. Two things I take in to consideration. Can Giannis continue to hit free throws or do they become his bugaboo. I mean if he shoots 60% last night as he did most of the playoffs...that's a different game. Second there will be teams that will force him to beat them from the perimeter....can he continue to hit those jumpers and expand to 3. Finally how does Jrue Holiday contract hold up over time. It was a win now move that paid off huge....so if those answers get done to the positive...well you betcha the title will go through them. I won't bet against Giannis though as he seems to improve every year. Dangerous team for sure!

I'm going to disagree that some team is going to force him to hit jumpers. Who is going to do that?

Giannis saw what teams were doing to him in these playoffs and adapted. He and Bud deserve a ton of credit for that. They stopped playing point-Giannis and just let him be a dominant post player that can sometimes start his drive from 25' out. I think Milwaukee has something special that is more about their execution than it is what other teams can do to stop them.

Looking long term at the Jrue contract, he's only 31 so I don't see him falling off of a cliff. He isn't a guy that is going to dominant on offense every game but he is a major net positive. He made life horrible for Booker and CP3 and filled the stat sheet. He averaged 16/9/6 (really inefficient scoring) and played amazing defense - I would take that over what anyone on the Pacers could offer as a third option. 

I guess the more I think about this Bucks team, I'm starting to think we are just seeing the beginning of something special with them. The narrative was that the window was closing and they got a lot of breaks, but maybe that's been the wrong narrative? 

[KoB2011]

12 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Very good call, and early.  

Blind squirrels find nuts on occasion. 

[BobSaccamanno]

I enjoyed the playoffs a lot.  Giannis deserves every accolade.  He plays ferociously hard at both ends.  He is legitimately a phenomenal defensive player too.  I love watching him at the defensive end.

Phoenix has some nice young talent and they are coming on.  Booker is really good, but guys like Ayton, Bridges, Cameron Johnson, and others are coming.  In a sense they remind me of how Atlanta is built.  

I also like the new blood.  Commissioner Silver mentioned that it is 8 different teams in the last 11.  I am not sure of the list, but off the top of my head, maybe its (Milwaukee, Toronto, LAL, GS, Cleveland, Miami, maybe SA, maybe DAL)?  I don't recall all the exact years.  It always reminds me of college football.  Great sport, but its tedious watching Saban, Clemson, OSU, and Georgia over and over and over, like Groundhog's Day.  ND and OK can be in the mix.  It would be better if you could get Texas and USC back, and maybe Florida. I don't know if Miami can get back.  Plus, get some fresh new teams in there.  I would find that more enjoyable than Dabo vs Saban again.

[KoB2011]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I’ll just leave this here….the time the Pacers drafted their own Giannis “unicorn”…

Congrats Milwaukee!

Bender could have been so good. He could have been on the cusp of his prime when the Malace at the Palace happened. 

Think what those Pacers teams could have been if things were different with his health and a few of those guys heads. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm going to disagree that some team is going to force him to hit jumpers. Who is going to do that?

Giannis saw what teams were doing to him in these playoffs and adapted. He and Bud deserve a ton of credit for that. They stopped playing point-Giannis and just let him be a dominant post player that can sometimes start his drive from 25' out. I think Milwaukee has something special that is more about their execution than it is what other teams can do to stop them.

Looking long term at the Jrue contract, he's only 31 so I don't see him falling off of a cliff. He isn't a guy that is going to dominant on offense every game but he is a major net positive. He made life horrible for Booker and CP3 and filled the stat sheet. He averaged 16/9/6 (really inefficient scoring) and played amazing defense - I would take that over what anyone on the Pacers could offer as a third option. 

I guess the more I think about this Bucks team, I'm starting to think we are just seeing the beginning of something special with them. The narrative was that the window was closing and they got a lot of breaks, but maybe that's been the wrong narrative? 

Well the other teams won't sit by and just let them be. Yes they moved Giannis to the post at times with matchups but mostly he was a point forward a lot. Holiday and Middleton aren't the best at creating offense for others and yes can get their own shot at times but are best used playing off ball and catch and shoot or drive. There are adjustments that teams that matchup better can make is all. I am not saying their window is closed...but they will be pushed. I don't see a GS scenario here but I can be wrong. A healthy Brooklyn team next year will still be the favorites and rightfully so in the East. We will see if Philly can land Lillard and what other changes will happen. Giannis however is only getting better...the question will the surrounding players be able to or will other teams catch up. 

[dgambill]

On the flip side...Suns have a lot of questions. If Paul opts out do they try to re-sign him? Can they bring back Cam Payne? How will that effect extensions for Bridges and Ayton. Not sure they can duplicate this run again and Paul is only getting older. Would they be better off saving his salary to lock in their young guys and maybe pick up a younger point guard? Not sure I'd count on 2021 version of Chris Paul coming back.

Edited July 21, 2021 by dgambill

[KoB2011]

18 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Well the other teams won't sit by and just let them be. Yes they moved Giannis to the post at times with matchups but mostly he was a point forward a lot. Holiday and Middleton aren't the best at creating offense for others and yes can get their own shot at times but are best used playing off ball and catch and shoot or drive. There are adjustments that teams that matchup better can make is all. I am not saying their window is closed...but they will be pushed. I don't see a GS scenario here but I can be wrong. A healthy Brooklyn team next year will still be the favorites and rightfully so in the East. We will see if Philly can land Lillard and what other changes will happen. Giannis however is only getting better...the question will the surrounding players be able to or will other teams catch up. 

Of course no one is going to sit back, but I'm not sure MLK isn't in the best position in the league moving forward right now. They have a guy that you can make a very strong case is on a top 5-10 player all time trajectory locked in long term at age 26. As you said, he is only getting better. They're starting from the best position of anyone with just that fact right there.

GSW - tons of assets and options, but until we see what we do with all of them it's hard to compare

LAL - how much does LBJ have left?

LAC - tons of questions

Den - They have their homegrown Big Three. It will be interesting to see how they come back.

PHX - I'll address below

BKN - Major question marks. All three of their Big Three have health problems and they don't have much roster flexibility. They'll probably win a title at some point, but it will be the outlier of them all staying healthy instead of the norm IMO

Philly - They have an asset that can rival Giannis, if he can stay healthy. Can they build around Embiid as well as MLK has built around Giannis? TBD.

ATL - I think they have a big window and are probably a bit outside of it on the early end currently. 

 

If I am betting on a team to win multiple titles in the next five years, I think Milwaukee is the safest bet. 

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

On the flip side...Suns have a lot of questions. If Paul opts out do they try to re-sign him? Can they bring back Cam Payne? How will that effect extensions for Bridges and Ayton. Not sure they can duplicate this run again and Paul is only getting older. Would they be better off saving his salary to lock in their young guys and maybe pick up a younger point guard? Not sure I'd count on 2021 version of Chris Paul coming back.

I think Phoenix likely runs it back. CP3 will opt out but sign a multi-year deal with them IMO. I think their path is to let CP3 continue to lead that group for a few years as Booker, Bridges, and Ayton grow into a Big Three and CP3 fades away. 

[Billingsley99]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

Players with back-to-back 40 point games in the Finals: Jordan.  Shaq.  LeBron.  Giannis.  

When all is said and done, I don't think it'll be uncommon to see those names grouped together. 

Exactly. Also Shaq an Giannis only to have multiple 40pt 10 reb games in a finals series and Giannis the only 40/10/5 in the finals. 

[NotIThatLives]

31 minutes ago, dgambill said:

On the flip side...Suns have a lot of questions. If Paul opts out do they try to re-sign him? Can they bring back Cam Payne? How will that effect extensions for Bridges and Ayton. Not sure they can duplicate this run again and Paul is only getting older. Would they be better off saving his salary to lock in their young guys and maybe pick up a younger point guard? Not sure I'd count on 2021 version of Chris Paul coming back.

JMO but I'd be shocked if Paul opts out of 40 million.  He's already banking in endorsements so its not like he needs to be on team LeBron LA.  Unless he just decides, salary cut is worth the ring chase and LeBron puts him closer. 

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

JMO but I'd be shocked if Paul opts out of 40 million.  He's already banking in endorsements so its not like he needs to be on team LeBron LA.  Unless he just decides, salary cut is worth the ring chase and LeBron puts him closer. 

I think he will opt out but resign a multi-year deal. 

[cybergates]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

Players with back-to-back 40 point games in the Finals: Jordan.  Shaq.  LeBron.  Giannis.  

When all is said and done, I don't think it'll be uncommon to see those names grouped together. 

Put Magic in as the PG and you have an unbeatable 5.

Magic

Jordan

LeBron

Giannis

Shaq

All "freaks" in their own way.

[cybergates]

4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

JMO but I'd be shocked if Paul opts out of 40 million.  He's already banking in endorsements so its not like he needs to be on team LeBron LA.  Unless he just decides, salary cut is worth the ring chase and LeBron puts him closer. 

It will be interesting to see what he does. He doesn't need the $, so does he join LeBron for cheap. I don't think Phoenix is getting back to the Finals anytime soon. They dodged Anthony Davis, Jamal Murray, and Kawhi Leonard on their path there. Don't see that happening again. 

His post game comments made it sound like he's staying, but I don't put much value in what's said in the "heat of the moment" 

[NotIThatLives]

44 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think he will opt out but resign a multi-year deal. 

Count me out if I'm a gm.  He's old, has an extensive nagging injury history.  He had a great year.  What kind of contract do y'all anticipate if he opts out?  

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Count me out if I'm a gm.  He's old, has an extensive nagging injury history.  He had a great year.  What kind of contract do y'all anticipate if he opts out?  

Talks are 2/50 3/60....I think if you can use that cap space to make a move for a younger point guard and lock up your guys you do it. I'd take the 1 year he has left but if he is opting out looking for multiple years....that's a hard decision but one I would have to pass on.

[KoB2011]

24 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Count me out if I'm a gm.  He's old, has an extensive nagging injury history.  He had a great year.  What kind of contract do y'all anticipate if he opts out?  

3 years, $30-40M per year. 

He has back to back top 5 MVP finishes and still clearly has gas left in the tank. I'd be shocked if Phoenix doesn't bring him back, why wouldn't they? They can do so without sacrificing any of their young guys long term and he can be pivotal for their development. 

[BGleas]

12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

3 years, $30-40M per year. 

He has back to back top 5 MVP finishes and still clearly has gas left in the tank. I'd be shocked if Phoenix doesn't bring him back, why wouldn't they? They can do so without sacrificing any of their young guys long term and he can be pivotal for their development. 

Yeah, I think Phoenix has to bring him back. I'm sure at this stage, knowing these are his last cracks at a title, that CP3 might be open to a team friendly deal. Not sure if he'd do that being the president of the union, but he's at that point where its about winning, not money. 

Either way, Phoenix has to bring him back. 

[dgambill]

41 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I think Phoenix has to bring him back. I'm sure at this stage, knowing these are his last cracks at a title, that CP3 might be open to a team friendly deal. Not sure if he'd do that being the president of the union, but he's at that point where its about winning, not money. 

Either way, Phoenix has to bring him back. 

What if he wants to go to LA and play with his good friend Lebron?

[KoB2011]

33 minutes ago, dgambill said:

What if he wants to go to LA and play with his good friend Lebron?

Anything is possible but that seems incredibly unlikely. 

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

What if he wants to go to LA and play with his good friend Lebron?

I was speaking from the Phoenix perspective, obviously CP3 doesn't want to sign there then there isn't much the Suns can do. 

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, BGleas said:

I was speaking from the Phoenix perspective, obviously CP3 doesn't want to sign there then there isn't much the Suns can do. 

I was just being a smart a$$. I don’t think he will take a pay cut to go to LA.

[BGleas]

30 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I was just being a smart a$$. I don’t think he will take a pay cut to go to LA.

I kind of wonder how that would work out if he did go to LA. LeBron is the king, so you'd think Chris Paul would take a step back. But Paul's thing most of his career has been that veterans grow really tired of his dominant lockerroom personality quite quickly and that he does better with younger players (OKC and Phoenix) that will acquiesce to him. 

[KoB2011]

32 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I kind of wonder how that would work out if he did go to LA. LeBron is the king, so you'd think Chris Paul would take a step back. But Paul's thing most of his career has been that veterans grow really tired of his dominant lockerroom personality quite quickly and that he does better with younger players (OKC and Phoenix) that will acquiesce to him. 

It won't work for him to go to LA. He would have to opt out of $44M and the max LA could pay him, if they clear every player of the roster sans Lebron and AD, is about $20M. If they work out a sign and trade with Phoenix it could go up, but why would Phoenix do that. 

Chris Paul to LA isn't a 0% chance, but neither is the Pacers acquiring Lillard.

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

It won't work for him to go to LA. He would have to opt out of $44M and the max LA could pay him, if they clear every player of the roster sans Lebron and AD, is about $20M. If they work out a sign and trade with Phoenix it could go up, but why would Phoenix do that. 

Chris Paul to LA isn't a 0% chance, but neither is the Pacers acquiring Lillard.

I don’t think it's happening either, was just more floating how interesting it would be to see the dynamic. While James and Paul are really close friends, being teammates is different when you have two dominant personalities, especially with Paul not being that well liked around the league by many veterans. 

I guess if Paul opted out and was adamant about going to LA, Phoenix could potentially agree to a sign and trade just to get something in return. Again, I think Paul stays in Phoenix. 

[KoB2011]

52 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t think it's happening either, was just more floating how interesting it would be to see the dynamic. While James and Paul are really close friends, being teammates is different when you have two dominant personalities, especially with Paul not being that well liked around the league by many veterans. 

I guess if Paul opted out and was adamant about going to LA, Phoenix could potentially agree to a sign and trade just to get something in return. Again, I think Paul stays in Phoenix. 

Oh I know you and I are in agreement here. I really don't think LA has anything to offer Phoenix in a sign and trade to where they'd rather have that than test what they could get with that cap space. 

[BGleas]

34 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Oh I know you and I are in agreement here. I really don't think LA has anything to offer Phoenix in a sign and trade to where they'd rather have that than test what they could get with that cap space. 

Will they have cap space? I don't know where they stand financially.