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Just now, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

The Thunder only got one year of PG and a first round exit, so I would say no.

Not a good way to measure it. Same problem Vic had playing next to Westbrook. Westbrook took what, something like 40 shots in that last loss, and of course the Thunder play in the West. It turned out a good trade both ways, a good thing.

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1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Not a good way to measure it. Same problem Vic had playing next to Westbrook. Westbrook took what, something like 40 shots in that last loss, and of course the Thunder play in the West. It turned out a good trade both ways, a good thing.

It's not an indictment of PG. The only way in retrospect that the trade looks good for OKC is if they went deep this year. They traded for a one-year rental, it didn't work out. It's like when an MLB team mortgages their farm system to win now and then doesn't.

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6 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

It's not an indictment of PG. The only way in retrospect that the trade looks good for OKC is if they went deep this year. They traded for a one-year rental, it didn't work out. It's like when an MLB team mortgages their farm system to win now and then doesn't.

That's a completely fair take, I just see it differently -- it ignores that the Thunder lost Roberson.

OKC was playing fantastic ball when Roberson went down, they adjusted afterwards, were decent, but dropped from a top 3 or so defensive team to something like top 15, and PG had to shift back to playing extra D on every possession. 

The P's didn't have those issues. When Vic wasn't on the floor though, they lost - which says a great deal about Vic's contribution, but also reflects that they're no near as good without him.

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50 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Definitely the way it worked out, which is great considering how bad Sabonid was the prior season. 🤡

He started 66 games on a playoff team as a rookie. He wasn't great but let's not act like it wasn't obvious he was going to be a quality NBA player. 

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40 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

He started 66 games on a playoff team as a rookie. He wasn't great but let's not act like it wasn't obvious he was going to be a quality NBA player. 

I never said he wasn't going to be a quality player, I said he had a bad season. Maybe "bad" is overstated, but he at most underwhelmed. Yes, he was a rookie, no he did not demonstrate anywhere near the level of play that he brought to the Pacers. That's the point, he did much better than anyone expected him to.

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22 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The Celtics have been the most interesting team to me thus far in the playoffs.  I’ve watched most of their games, and they are just intriguing.  I watched them beat a dysfunctional and underachieving team in Milwaukee on what really turned out to be a toss-up.  It wasn’t surprising, though.  But, then, they took out Philly handily even though a lot of the games were tight.  So, at this point they are playing with house money.   I didn’t expect them to take out Cleveland but it’s playing out just like the Milwaukee series.  

If you follow these series, it shows how weak the East still is.  It might flip in the next couple of years as some of these young teams become coherent, but there’s some bad basketball in the East.  The Cavs sweeping a 60 win Raptor team is a joke.  Cleveland on the road looks pathetic.  Lebron is amazing, but he’s got rubbish around him.  Jeff Green is a dog of a player and always has been.  George Hill is a shell of himself and looks like he’s headed out of the league.  Clarkson plays weak.  JR Smith is a moron and a classic losing player if he weren’t around Lebron. I kind of like Nance.  Love is fine.  But, you take Lebron out and this a team vying for the first pick in the draft.  It’s got to be demoralizing for him to be around the clowns he’s got to play with.  He may will them to victory but there’s no evidence as a team they’d play tough on the road in game 7.

It’s funny, I was going to come in and mention the Celtics dilemma with playing time going forward but you guys already covered it.  I love Jaylen Brown and Tatum.  Rozier has been a revelation although his confidence and/or energy seems to be inconsistent.  But he’s a nice backup for an injury prone Irving.  Smart is a guy that, to me, you have to find minutes for.  He’s the opposite of JR Smith, since he plays winning basketball.  Ainge has done an amazing job in this day and age, but they will have to satisfy all of these guys. 

I don’t see any issues for the Celtics keeping all three of Tatum, Brown, and Hayward.  If anything, having those three players is exactly what you want in the NBA today.  Three guys that can all handle the ball and create their own shot, and can guard 1-4 switching everything on defense.  Then you add in a top 5 scorer in the league in Kyrie and a stud defensive center that can guard on the perimeter and does all the little things in Horford, and the Celtics have pretty much the ideal starting 5.

I also think they’re going to keep Rozier and let Smart go.  Rozier has been playing at a really high level, and will be maybe the best backup guard in the league when Kyrie comes back.  Smart is going to be up for a big contract this summer, and I just don’t think it’s worth it for the Celts to pay him.  He’s great defensively and makes hustle plays, but I think he can be a real bonehead at times, and hurts on them offense.  Rozier is better all around and is on a cheaper/longer contract than Smart.

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2 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

The Thunder only got one year of PG and a first round exit, so I would say no.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I'd also say that Vic being younger makes the trade a little unbalanced...without the little Domantis Sabonis thing...

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1 minute ago, ButlerHoosier said:

Oladipo is All-NBA Third Team NBA All-Defensive First Team and is a finalist for Most Improved player of the year! Not bad for a team that was supposed to be in the lottery! That's not even mentioning everyone who has slept on him! He is turning heads and waking people up! 

Victor is a 100% lock for Most Improved Player.

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On 5/25/2018 at 9:20 AM, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

It's not an indictment of PG. The only way in retrospect that the trade looks good for OKC is if they went deep this year. They traded for a one-year rental, it didn't work out. It's like when an MLB team mortgages their farm system to win now and then doesn't.

Love your MLB analogy and it is spot on.  It will be deemed a bad trade if PG does indeed bolt from OKC.  One year rental with no results.  And the Thunder fans look at what they gave up for him.  

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5 minutes ago, rico said:

Who is first?

 

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I honestly don't see how he isn't first. 

I’m agnostic on the MJ/Lebron debate because I never really watched MJ play.  I think there are good arguments on both sides, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s those two, then everyone else.

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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I honestly don't see how he isn't first. 

Exactly.  I have seen some of the greats.  LBJ is something else.  I would invite anybody to tell me another player in the NBA that can literally carry their team on their back.  I am not a James fan, but I sure as hell respect his greatness.

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5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

 

I’m agnostic on the MJ/Lebron debate because I never really watched MJ play.  I think there are good arguments on both sides, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s those two, then everyone else.

I get that. I got to see MJ live a handful of times on his second three-peat. He was incredible. Very glad I got to see him. 

I've gotten to sit very close for some playoff games against Lebron and there is nothing like it. The man is unbelievable.

Numbers-wise, though, Lebron owns that discussion at this point. I get there's a subjective nature that doesn't only look at numbers that needs to be accounted for, though. 

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8 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

 

I’m agnostic on the MJ/Lebron debate because I never really watched MJ play.  I think there are good arguments on both sides, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s those two, then everyone else.

My Dad is soon to be 78 and an avid b-ball fan.  He loves these discussions when they come up.  The NBA spans his lifetime.  He would tell you that LeBron, without a doubt, is the greatest player he has ever seen.  Think about that for a while.  And fwiw, Dad is a Bulls fan.  King James is like Wilt but better.  He is a freak.  

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Wherever you come down, I think at this point LeBron is undoubtedly top 5 and really at least top 3. 

It’s the impossible era debate, just imagine seeing MJ against LeBron, now that would be cool. I’ve seen both live, and Magic, all 3 we’re simply incredible. No one could stop MJ — once he got past the Pistons — but MJ never had to carry a team like the Verajo Cavs to the Finals, MJ never beat a team as good as that GS team in the Finals, back from 3-1 down, but MJ has 6 rings and was unstoppable leading those Bulls’ teams. His killer instinct was second to none,. It’s an impossible debate, and i’m Leaving out a couple of the obvious challengers 

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1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Wherever you come down, I think at this point LeBron is undoubtedly top 5 and really at least top 3. 

It’s the impossible era debate, just imagine seeing MJ against LeBron, now that would be cool. I’ve seen both live, and Magic, all 3 we’re simply incredible. No one could stop MJ — once he got past the Pistons — but MJ never had to carry a team like the Verajo Cavs to the Finals, MJ never beat a team as good as that GS team in the Finals, back from 3-1 down, but MJ has 6 rings and was unstoppable leading those Bulls’ teams. His killer instinct was second to none,. It’s an impossible debate, and i’m Leaving out a couple of the obvious challengers 

Kobe

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50 minutes ago, rico said:

My Dad is soon to be 78 and an avid b-ball fan.  He loves these discussions when they come up.  The NBA spans his lifetime.  He would tell you that LeBron, without a doubt, is the greatest player he has ever seen.  Think about that for a while.  And fwiw, Dad is a Bulls fan.  King James is like Wilt but better.  He is a freak.  

Oh you don’t have to convince me how much of a freak Lebron is.  I bought into the “Lebron isn’t a winner” argument for a while, but that went out the window when he beat that Warriors team after being down 3-1.  Honestly though, what he’s been doing over the course of the playoffs this year might be even more impressive.  To be this dominant at the age of 33, with the amount of minutes he’s played in his career, is absolutely mind boggling.  As for Kobe, I don’t think he comes anywhere close to Lebron.

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@KoB2011 @FW_Hoosier @Hoosierhoopster

I also watched Jordan live a few times and saw both. Lebron is already the goat for me. Is it kind of impossible to debate? Maybe/kinda. For me Lebron is the best. I feel like people aged 30-40 are the ‘best judges’ because they grew up as Jordan kids and have seen the league in both eras. 

People want to talk about 6-0. How about 6-7 in elimination games. ‘Take that for data!’

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25 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Oh you don’t have to convince me how much of a freak Lebron is.  I bought into the “Lebron isn’t a winner” argument for a while, but that went out the window when he beat that Warriors team after being down 3-1.  Honestly though, what he’s been doing over the course of the playoffs this year might be even more impressive.  To be this dominant at the age of 33, with the amount of minutes he’s played in his career, is absolutely mind boggling.  As for Kobe, I don’t think he comes anywhere close to Lebron.

Kobe is LeBron......just not what is on the court.  Kobe settled out of court on a rape charge.  James bolted for Miami.  And fwiw MJ was screwing a gal from my neck of the woods.  Pick your poison.

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4 minutes ago, ADegenerate said:

@KoB2011 @FW_Hoosier @Hoosierhoopster

I also watched Jordan live a few times and saw both. Lebron is already the goat for me. Is it kind of impossible to debate? Maybe/kinda. For me Lebron is the best. I feel like people aged 30-40 are the ‘best judges’ because they grew up as Jordan kids and have seen the league in both eras. 

People want to talk about 6-0. How about 6-7 in elimination games. ‘Take that for data!’

Haha I was literally just thinking of that Take that for data! press conference 

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38 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Oh you don’t have to convince me how much of a freak Lebron is.  I bought into the “Lebron isn’t a winner” argument for a while, but that went out the window when he beat that Warriors team after being down 3-1.  Honestly though, what he’s been doing over the course of the playoffs this year might be even more impressive.  To be this dominant at the age of 33, with the amount of minutes he’s played in his career, is absolutely mind boggling.  As for Kobe, I don’t think he comes anywhere close to Lebron.

Kobe was great for sure but I don’t place home top 5. He was knocked out by Nash’s Suns and couldn’t win after Shaq until they brought in a then star level Gasol. His competitiveness and killer instinct is right there with MJ, but I don’t put him at the same level as MJ, LBJ, or Magic. Top 10 or so for me, which has to include Duncan, maybe the best power forward ever. Bird for me is somewhere around top 5.

Kareem and Bill Russell have to be in the mix 

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