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11 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Oh good point, I knew there was another HORRIBLE one but I couldn't remember.  That one was real bad.  Easily 6 inches between them two when Harden went up for the shot and when he came back down. 

Yes, P's lost because of failed execution and poor FT shooting -- but, Harden has been getting crazy calls for years now. It's not just star treatment though - he is a master of drawing defenders into his space and then throwing his arms up or flopping back to get the "phantom foul." Basically every game he plays he gets fouls called that aren't fouls. It's a part of his game, and a part I don't like, but in fairness to him, he's taking what the refs give him to help get W's. They changed the rules to allow fines for flops, they're supposed to be ref'ing fake fouls, but they're often not doing it -- for Harden, partly because of star treatment, partly because of how good his handle is and how well he works a player into his space. 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes, P's lost because of failed execution and poor FT shooting -- but, Harden has been getting crazy calls for years now. It's not just star treatment though - he is a master of drawing defenders into his space and then throwing his arms up or flopping back to get the "phantom foul." Basically every game he plays he gets fouls called that aren't fouls. It's a part of his game, and a part I don't like, but in fairness to him, he's taking what the refs give him to help get W's. They changed the rules to allow fines for flops, they're supposed to be ref'ing fake fouls, but they're often not doing it -- for Harden, partly because of star treatment, partly because of how good his handle is and how well he works a player into his space. 

The two most egregious calls on Harden, which both went against Vic, involved zero contact. To his credit, he didn't flop on one, he just drove and Vic backed off and the refs blew the call. The second one, Vic played great D, when Harden picked the ball up Vic put his hands straight up then Harden shot the ball and just fell on the landing. It was absolutely pathetic. 

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Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

Too many shots by Vic, not enough balance, and they lose, again. This is not the formula for future Pacers success 

Couldn’t disagree more with ya here. This squad is dead last in pace and that’s a terrible sign in this new league with the freedom of movement rules. when bogey is your second scoring option in a league where you need 110 a night....not looking good...

The squad isn’t built well for where the league is going. McDermott isn’t even a decent JJ reddick. Gonna be a long year I think.

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Yogi's decision to leave Dallas is looking worse and worse.  He's gone from 30 minutes a night to becoming a regular  'DNP-Coaches Decision'.  A lot of his success in Dallas was being in a perfect system fit.  Unless you are a superstar, and they are going to build the team around you, you should never, ever give that up.  It happens to players with more talent than Yogi.  Just look no further than Vic.  

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The Pacers shot way to many 3's last night with VO going 4-14,  Early in the 3rd quarter the Pacers got a 5 or 6 point lead and then they shot like 8 3's in 10 possessions and missed all 8 and that allowed Philly to stay in the game.  To me when the Pacers are playing well it is when they have great ball movement and players are moving.  It seems like VO is trying to do to much on his own and not getting others involved.  To me Philly is not that great of a team and was coming in 0-5 on the road and to lose this game at home is terrible.

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My two cents(not that it matters because I'm only a fan in the stands):

- Shooting 2 of 10 with 7 points and 4 rebounds in 30 minutes for Myles is not going to cut it.  If he doesn't step up shortly, he is in for a rude awakening and I love MYLES. 

- Collison going 0 of 3 with 0 points and 1 assist is not going to cut it from a starting point guard in the NBA. 

- Victor took too many shots, I would like to see him shoot around 15 per game, I think he tried to much hero ball tonight(could be cause none of the other starters really shot the ball well, besides Bojan and he was 3 for 6 from behind the 3 point line).

- Sabonis IS the second best player on this team behind Victor hands down and I will argue anyone that says otherwise, he may not be a top shot blocker even though he is almost 7 foot but the dude hustles, muscles and plays with so much energy regardless if he is shooting 12/12 or 2/10 from the floor.  When he gets fouled yes sometimes he may bark at the ref slightly but he hustles back to the other end of the floor.   

- McDerrmott needs more 3 point attempts, otherwise what was the point in bringing him in as a shooter off of the bench?  He had 1 attempt from behind the arc last night, get creative and create 3 or 4 shot opportunities from behind the arc for this guy, he is bound to hit at least 2 out of 4 on any given night right??? 

- Tyreke can get to the rim with anyone guarding him but he struggles to finish.  I think he will start finishing better but him and Sabonis running the P&R is pretty, IMO prettier without the antics that Lance brought with Sabonis last season. 

 

Not saying I am right but these are my feelings after 12 games into the season.  The season is still young, I will not start worrying until around game 20. 

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10 hours ago, ADegenerate said:

Couldn’t disagree more with ya here. This squad is dead last in pace and that’s a terrible sign in this new league with the freedom of movement rules. when bogey is your second scoring option in a league where you need 110 a night....not looking good...

The squad isn’t built well for where the league is going. McDermott isn’t even a decent JJ reddick. Gonna be a long year I think.

When Vic takes all the shots they lose. When they balance the scoring and Vic takes a reasonable number of shots they win. That's basically been the trend, built on a number of Pacers who can score the ball. 

This has nothing to do with pace, it's about balance:

Grizz -- W, Vic 11 shots

Bucks - L, Vic 23 shots

Nets - W, Vic 20 shots

Wolves - L, Vic 23 shots

Spurs - W, Vic 11 shots

Cavs - W, Vic 15 shots

Portland - L, Vic 24 shots

Knicks - W, Vic 18 shots

Bulls - W, Vic 19 shots (write up title, Vic leads "balanced Pacers" past Bulls)

Celtics - W, Vic 18 shots

Rockets - L, Vic 21 shots

Sixers - L, Vic 30 shots (seriously?) -- and Collison 3 shots, Turner 8, Young 8, Bog 11. That's imbalance, and they were stomped, the late run notwithstanding.

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

My two cents(not that it matters because I'm only a fan in the stands):

- Shooting 2 of 10 with 7 points and 4 rebounds in 30 minutes for Myles is not going to cut it.  If he doesn't step up shortly, he is in for a rude awakening and I love MYLES. 

- Collison going 0 of 3 with 0 points and 1 assist is not going to cut it from a starting point guard in the NBA. 

- Victor took too many shots, I would like to see him shoot around 15 per game, I think he tried to much hero ball tonight(could be cause none of the other starters really shot the ball well, besides Bojan and he was 3 for 6 from behind the 3 point line).

- Sabonis IS the second best player on this team behind Victor hands down and I will argue anyone that says otherwise, he may not be a top shot blocker even though he is almost 7 foot but the dude hustles, muscles and plays with so much energy regardless if he is shooting 12/12 or 2/10 from the floor.  When he gets fouled yes sometimes he may bark at the ref slightly but he hustles back to the other end of the floor.   

- McDerrmott needs more 3 point attempts, otherwise what was the point in bringing him in as a shooter off of the bench?  He had 1 attempt from behind the arc last night, get creative and create 3 or 4 shot opportunities from behind the arc for this guy, he is bound to hit at least 2 out of 4 on any given night right??? 

- Tyreke can get to the rim with anyone guarding him but he struggles to finish.  I think he will start finishing better but him and Sabonis running the P&R is pretty, IMO prettier without the antics that Lance brought with Sabonis last season. 

 

Not saying I am right but these are my feelings after 12 games into the season.  The season is still young, I will not start worrying until around game 20. 

Largely agree, and whether or not he's the second best player on the team, think Sabonis should be starting. 

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To me the Pacers needs to get one more star player in their starting lineup to get to the next level.  I would love to be able to get Kawhi to the Pacers but we all know that will never happen and to me Jimmy Butler is to much of a head case.  Going forward if we have 1B  to VO 1A and Sabonis as our 3rd best player we would be a legitimate contender.  To me it was a big mistake to sign Turner to such a huge deal because he is not a great player and it will be hard to trade his contract.

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3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

When Vic takes all the shots they lose. When they balance the scoring and Vic takes a reasonable number of shots they win. That's basically been the trend, built on a number of Pacers who can score the ball. 

This has nothing to do with pace, it's about balance:

Grizz -- W, Vic 11 shots

Bucks - L, Vic 23 shots

Nets - W, Vic 20 shots

Wolves - L, Vic 23 shots

Spurs - W, Vic 11 shots

Cavs - W, Vic 15 shots

Portland - L, Vic 24 shots

Knicks - W, Vic 18 shots

Bulls - W, Vic 19 shots (write up title, Vic leads "balanced Pacers" past Bulls)

Celtics - W, Vic 18 shots

Rockets - L, Vic 21 shots

Sixers - L, Vic 30 shots (seriously?) -- and Collison 3 shots, Turner 8, Young 8, Bog 11. That's imbalance, and they were stomped, the late run notwithstanding.

 

 

 

I’m all about proof backing up my claims so I appreciate what you’ve shown me and it’s something I’ll think about and keep an eye on. I might get back to you later with a rebuttal but good post and I’m open minded on the issue.

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56 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me the Pacers needs to get one more star player in their starting lineup to get to the next level.  I would love to be able to get Kawhi to the Pacers but we all know that will never happen and to me Jimmy Butler is to much of a head case.  Going forward if we have 1B  to VO 1A and Sabonis as our 3rd best player we would be a legitimate contender.  To me it was a big mistake to sign Turner to such a huge deal because he is not a great player and it will be hard to trade his contract.

Mostly agree with you on Turner. He’s got a lot of value on defense. I don’t know if we’re tying to make him a serious threat on offense or if he just thinks he is but I don’t like his game on O at all. I like that he can pick and pop and occasiinaly hit a three but running specific plays for him I don’t really like. 

It’s a shame that we will probably never be able to attract a super star and we have to overpay to keep what we have so in that regard I get the turner deal. I don’t think I’d sanction it but I get the reason why they did.

We have to draft well and that TJ Leaf pick was a huge blunder.

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I said it last summer, but I think Terry Rozier would be a good fit for the Pacers, and certainly an upgrade over Collison. There are rumblings that the Celtics are open to trading him, as he has not handled going back to the bench too well. I just don't know what the Pacers would have to offer? Other good thing about Rozier is that he actually plays better off the ball, so he'd pair well next to Oladipo. 

I just don't know what the Pacers would have to offer?

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46 minutes ago, ADegenerate said:

Mostly agree with you on Turner. He’s got a lot of value on defense. I don’t know if we’re tying to make him a serious threat on offense or if he just thinks he is but I don’t like his game on O at all. I like that he can pick and pop and occasiinaly hit a three but running specific plays for him I don’t really like. 

It’s a shame that we will probably never be able to attract a super star and we have to overpay to keep what we have so in that regard I get the turner deal. I don’t think I’d sanction it but I get the reason why they did.

We have to draft well and that TJ Leaf pick was a huge blunder.

You need to take a look at the players around Myles' salary if you think the deal was an overpay.

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Watching the NBA, we’ve got teams jacking up literally 40-50 threes a night.  I Iike it.  I am old enough to remember that 125-122 scores in the NBA were commonplace,.  The nineties, which was a nadir in the sport to me, brought us the 80-77 type scores.

Sure, I like a hard screen, Anthony Mason style, but watching congested paint and Ewing sweating over everybody in a confined space is not as fun to me as open basketball with athleticism at a premium.  Personally, I think a pure shooter is a beautiful thing to behold. I still like defense, but open basketball doesn’t preclude the need for tough defense.  

You know I love Archie, and finding shooters at the college level is decidedly tougher, but one thing in recruiting is I’d like to see us prioritize some pure shooters more.  I think you’re going to need to hit a fair number of threes to get done what you want to do.  

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37 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

You know I love Archie, and finding shooters at the college level is decidedly tougher, but one thing in recruiting is I’d like to see us prioritize some pure shooters more.  I think you’re going to need to hit a fair number of threes to get done what you want to do.  

I totally agree, but it seems to me that Archie landed a pure shooter in Damezi Anderson.  We were in on Brandon Newman too, but it just didn’t work out.

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