NBA Thread

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I said it last summer, but I think Terry Rozier would be a good fit for the Pacers, and certainly an upgrade over Collison. There are rumblings that the Celtics are open to trading him, as he has not handled going back to the bench too well. I just don't know what the Pacers would have to offer? Other good thing about Rozier is that he actually plays better off the ball, so he'd pair well next to Oladipo. 

I just don't know what the Pacers would have to offer?

Give you Turner and Collison for Rozier and Brown

[BGleas]

34 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Give you Turner and Collison for Rozier and Brown

It's not a bad offer, it really made me thing, but ultimately I don't think I would do it from the Celtics perspective, nor do I think Ainge would do it. The Celtics don't really need Turner, they already have Horford, Baynes, and Thies, and they drafted a one and done kid in the previous draft who is an athletic big that they like. I think you could debate who the best player in that trade would be between Turner and Brown, but Collison is clearly the worst, so between that and the Celtics not really needing Turner, I don't think they would do it. 

With that said, I do think that was an interesting offer. When I thought of Rozier to the Pacers I did think any offer would have to begin with either Turner or Sabonis, but including Sabonis would be crazy for the Pacers. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by BGleas

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's not a bad offer, it really made me thing, but ultimately I don't think I would do it from the Celtics perspective, nor do I think Ainge would do it. The Celtics don't really need Turner, they already have Horford, Baynes, and Thies, and they drafted a one and done kid in the previous draft who is an athletic big that they like. I think you could debate who the best player in that trade would be between Turner and Brown, but Collison is clearly the worst, so between that and the Celtics not really needing Turner, I don't think they would do it. 

With that said, I do think that was an interesting offer. When I thought of Rozier to the Pacers I did think any offer would have to begin with either Turner or Sabonis, but including Sabonis would be crazy for the Pacers. 

No to Sabonis

[BGleas]

Just now, IU Scott said:

No to Sabonis

I agree. You want to build your team around a core of Vic, Bogdanovic (sp), Sabonis and whichever point guard you get, in this case Rozier. I wouldn't give up Sabonis if I was the Pacers, just saying if I'm the Celtics that's where I'm starting. I think the Celtics would say no to Turner, but I could be wrong.

[IU Scott]

12 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I agree. You want to build your team around a core of Vic, Bogdanovic (sp), Sabonis and whichever point guard you get, in this case Rozier. I wouldn't give up Sabonis if I was the Pacers, just saying if I'm the Celtics that's where I'm starting. I think the Celtics would say no to Turner, but I could be wrong.

After this season the Pacers have 8 guys who will be free agents so they have a lot of money to spend.  the problem with that is getting free agents to want to come to play in Indianapolis.  It is a great city and the facilities are top notch but free agents want to be able to market themselves and Indy is not that place.

[Hoosierhoopster]

Turner still has a lot of upside. He has not had the breakout season some (e.g., Bird, who thought he'd be the Best Pacer Ever) thought, but he's very talented, and does block at an elite level. Heard a lot about his off-season yoga etc. to get him in shape, but still looks kind of soft to me - needs to get stronger and continue developing his jumper. Can see him traded, but can also see that being premature. 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Turner still has a lot of upside. He has not had the breakout season some (e.g., Bird, who thought he'd be the Best Pacer Ever) thought, but he's very talented, and does block at an elite level. Heard a lot about his off-season yoga etc. to get him in shape, but still looks kind of soft to me - needs to get stronger and continue developing his jumper. Can see him traded, but can also see that being premature. 

I know he was only a freshman but he did nothing at UT and watched hi score two points against Butler in their first round loss.

[ADegenerate]

9 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

You need to take a look at the players around Myles' salary if you think the deal was an overpay.

I forgot that the cap has been constantly jumping up the past few years. You’re right. 

[ADegenerate]

On 10/17/2018 at 12:57 AM, ADegenerate said:

My bad. Didn't convey that very well. So if you take a look at Vic's career progression his shooting / 3pt shooting has progressed steadily every year. He obviously took a major jump last season and scored 1.3 points per shot and took 17.9 shots per game which banked him 23.1ppg. That was the key part I left out and where the 15-15.5 shots per game came from. My mistake. We're probably a year or two away from his prime, so for him not to break 22 points per game he would have to take fewer shots than last season and/or regress in efficiency. He should still have a level or two to jump so if he's at 22 something definitely went wrong. I don't think there's a chance in hell of that happening. It's more probable that he approaches 20 shots and maintains his %'s and maybe slightly lowers them rather than the team taking shots away from him.

 

I think he can max out around 50%, 40%, and 85% (47, 37, and 80 last season) on about 15/16 shots  but I don't think he'll do that because he's young, it's his team, and he has a point to prove so I'm expecting closer to 20 shots.

 

I think 24 is the 'real' O/U.

@IU Scott

8.5-17.9 / 23.1 / .477% / .371% / .799% 

9.2-19.5 / 24.1 / .470% / .356% / .698%

That's why analytics are so important. I'm a complete amateur and saw exactly where this was headed. When you know how things are supposed to play out you can adjust the things that you want to adjust to achieve even more desirable outcomes.

I stand by my opinion that it's a mistake to take shots away from Vic. I think you keep nurturing this flame and see how far he can go. This squad isn't good enough to win a title this year but who knows how Sabonis / Turner develop and then possibly we could trade or lure in a FA to really threaten for the title. 

[IU Scott]

7 hours ago, ADegenerate said:

@IU Scott

8.5-17.9 / 23.1 / .477% / .371% / .799% 

9.2-19.5 / 24.1 / .470% / .356% / .698%

That's why analytics are so important. I'm a complete amateur and saw exactly where this was headed. When you know how things are supposed to play out you can adjust the things that you want to adjust to achieve even more desirable outcomes.

I stand by my opinion that it's a mistake to take shots away from Vic. I think you keep nurturing this flame and see how far he can go. This squad isn't good enough to win a title this year but who knows how Sabonis / Turner develop and then possibly we could trade or lure in a FA to really threaten for the title. 

Yet when the pacers are playing well it is when they have a balance attack with 6-8 players scoring in double figures.  It was like MJ before Pippen and Grant came along he would score 63 and still lose in the playoffs to Boston.

[KoB2011]

28 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Yet when the pacers are playing well it is when they have a balance attack with 6-8 players scoring in double figures.  It was like MJ before Pippen and Grant came along he would score 63 and still lose in the playoffs to Boston.

I don't think we can reasonably conclude Victor taking a lot of shots is what causes problems. I think we would all agree Victor is an unselfish player. 

Is he shooting a lot because the rest of the team is playing bad and he has to? Or is his shooting a lot causing the team to play bad? I just haven't seen enough to conclude Victor is the problem. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

34 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don't think we can reasonably conclude Victor taking a lot of shots is what causes problems. I think we would all agree Victor is an unselfish player. 

Is he shooting a lot because the rest of the team is playing bad and he has to? Or is his shooting a lot causing the team to play bad? I just haven't seen enough to conclude Victor is the problem. 

Think there's a disconnect in the dialogue -- I'm not, and I don't think anyone else is, saying Vic is "the problem." Rather, the problem is that the team is still finding itself offensively and when it goes to an unbalanced offense, in which Vic, as the lead guy, is taking an excessive number of shots, they lose. That's really true of just about any team, with maybe a LeBron team being the exception because LeBron is so good he can single handedly win (though, well, not with this year's Lakers). The solution for the Pacers is not to have Vic shoot more, it's to have him continue to be the lead guy but to balance the offense -- there's no reason why guys like Bog, Thad, Turner et al shouldn't be taking more shots -- zero reason. They are fully capable scorers, and when the P's balance their O they win.

What team wins with an unbalanced offense? Why would you want Vic to take 23-30 shots a game?? That serves no purpose other than, from an individual player standpoint (or a fantasy league), to see Vic score. He took 30 shots against Philly. That's just bad offense.

[Seeking6]

17 hours ago, IU Scott said:

After this season the Pacers have 8 guys who will be free agents so they have a lot of money to spend.  the problem with that is getting free agents to want to come to play in Indianapolis.  It is a great city and the facilities are top notch but free agents want to be able to market themselves and Indy is not that place.

I'll never understand when people say they can't market themselves here. Peyton Manning arguably is the most marketable player in the history of the NFL. If you win. People will find you. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

Bucks destroyed the Warriors last night, completely owned them, very impressive W (albeit no Draymond and Steph left the game with injury).

And with balanced O -- Greek Freak 7-16, Middleton 6-16, Bledsoe 10-12, Brogdon 9-14, Connaugton 7-11 -- 33 total assists. This team is getting scary.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

I'll never understand when people say they can't market themselves here. Peyton Manning arguably is the most marketable player in the history of the NFL. If you win. People will find you. 

Football is so much different than the NBA when it comes to marketing.  Also a lot of players feel like there is not much to do in Indy compared to a bigger market as well.

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

All of you that were complaining about the refs during the Pacers/Rockets game...this garbage during the Heat game with the flagrant fouls and ejection of Thad is something WORTH complaining about. 

[rico]

19 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Football is so much different than the NBA when it comes to marketing.  Also a lot of players feel like there is not much to do in Indy compared to a bigger market as well.

I don't buy any of that.  The NBA is no different than the NFL or MLB for that matter.  Not much to do in Indy?  

 

[BGleas]

3 hours ago, rico said:

I don't buy any of that.  The NBA is no different than the NFL or MLB for that matter.  Not much to do in Indy?  

 

If anything the NBA is the standard for player marketing. 

[StLHoosier]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

If anything the NBA is the standard for player marketing. 

How do you say so?  No matter the sport, if we’re talking the elite athletes, they don’t have a hard time marketing them even in smaller markets.

[Seeking6]

5 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

How do you say so?  No matter the sport, if we’re talking the elite athletes, they don’t have a hard time marketing them even in smaller markets.

Yep. I've never bought the small market thing in terms of marketing ability. You win you'll get commercials. No matter the sport or city. Sometimes you don't even have to win. Look at Paul George for example. He has national spots and played in Indy and now at OKC....not necessarily Madison Avenue.

 

[slojoe]

Saw some of beginning and all of the ending of Pacers W over Miami last night.  Vic took over at the end of the game and led Pacers to the W.

I think the Pacers need another "superstar" to go with Vic to win a title.  It could be Turner or Sabonis, but if not, they'll have to get a free agent.

[BGleas]

17 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

How do you say so?  No matter the sport, if we’re talking the elite athletes, they don’t have a hard time marketing them even in smaller markets.

I don’t understand your point?

I said the NBA is the standard for player marketing. The NBA is the best at it and set the template for it. If you’re an NBA player it really doesn’t matter what market you’re in. MLB has had a terrible time marketing their athletes. Mike Trout is arguably on pace to be the best player ever and he’s not a household name. 

[ephul]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t understand your point?

I said the NBA is the standard for player marketing. The NBA is the best at it and set the template for it. If you’re an NBA player it really doesn’t matter what market you’re in. MLB has had a terrible time marketing their athletes. Mike Trout is arguably on pace to be the best player ever and he’s not a household name. 

Absolute great point with Trout. If he played on the East Coast people would understand that he is the greatest player in the league since Albert Pujols

[rico]

2 minutes ago, ephul said:

Absolute great point with Trout. If he played on the East Coast people would understand that he is the greatest player in the league since Albert Pujols

But yet everyone knows who Clayton Kershaw is.  Trout ain't on a winner.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, ephul said:

Absolute great point with Trout. If he played on the East Coast people would understand that he is the greatest player in the league since Albert Pujols

Trout does play in the second largest media market in the country though. I’d say the general public also doesn’t know who Mookie Betts, Bryce Harper or Stanton are. MLB has just really struggles to market their individual players. In the NBA it doesn’t really matter where you play. Kevin Durant can spend 9 years in OKC and everyone knows his name.