NBA Thread

[BGleas]

49 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Can't believe how many of you Pacer guys are okay with trading Sabonis.  I don't do that for anyything.  He would be virtually untouchable if I was GM.  Not sure if you realize how good he is.

Depends on who you could get for him. I love Jayson Tatum, but if he can get me Anthony Davis, then buh-bye. I loved Al Jefferson when the Celtics drafted him, he was developing really nice and he was a borderline all-star for several years in Minny/Utah, but when Kevin Garnett was available I had no problem with moving him. 

I realize you said "virtually untouchable", so you probably meant scenarios like that. I think if you're the Pacers you hold onto Sabonis and continue to develop him in the hopes that you can eventually flip him and some other assets for another star to pair with VO. 

[5fouls]

If I was GM and decided I could only keep 1 of Turner/Sabonis, I'm keeping Sabonis.  

He's vastly undervalued around the league and, because of that, you would never get equal value even if you wanted to trade him. But, I can't imagine why you would want to in the first place.

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If I was GM and decided I could only keep 1 of Turner/Sabonis, I'm keeping Sabonis.  

He's vastly undervalued around the league and, because of that, you would never get equal value even if you wanted to trade him. But, I can't imagine why you would want to in the first place.

I agree between Turner and Sabonis. But, yes you could actually get greater value for Sabonis than he is worth. That was the point of my post. Sabonis, assuming he keeps developing, could be the centerpiece of a trade for a legit star. If the Anthony Davis thing had come along maybe a year later, the Pacers could have offered something like Sabonis/Holiday/1st round pick and gotten him to pair with VO.

The point is, Sabonis is a really, really good young player, so if you're the Pacers you want to keep him and develop him. Then he either turns into a star or you flip him along with other assets to get a star to go along with VO. 

[Seeking6]

4 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Oden looked 31 when he was 6.

No doubt. Hopefully he gets his stuff together....but even at 31 people still make plenty of mistakes. He's got plenty of time. 

[dgambill]

11 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Can't believe how many of you Pacer guys are okay with trading Sabonis.  I don't do that for anyything.  He would be virtually untouchable if I was GM.  Not sure if you realize how good he is.

Indeed...very talented young man. Honestly all these guys are too young to be getting rid of. Turner is only 23...people flake because he has played 4 seasons but he came in as a baby...just now getting his body right and improving his defense. I don’t trade either...why?? When others zig we zag...nothing wrong with 3 good bigs. We have plenty of cap space to land a max level player plus fill out the roster. 

Sabonis is best a 4. He doesnt protect the rim. He has short arms. I agree with someone else who said you play Myles at the 5....let this new kid back him up and then you play Sabonis at the 4 and use Warren and Leaf as stretch 4s. I’d like to see us land Russell who can score and also play off the ball at times especially while Vic is still out. Holiday is ready to back up the point. Use remaining cap for a defensive wing and more guard depth. I hope KP pulls off a better offseason than last year. We will see.

[dgambill]

10 hours ago, IU Scott said:

We will have to trade either Turner or Sabonis eventually because I just don't see them be able to play together.  I really like Sabonis but he does need to learn to use his right hand because the Celtics shut him down because they took his left hand away.

I just don’t get this. Turner signed an extension. We have Sabonis for two more and then he is a restricted free agent. We need more than one big...teams build around these kind of bigs not trade them. In today’s NBA it’s much easier to find shooting and wings then guys like Turner and Sabonis who both fit the new stretch bigs in the NBA. We have tons of cap space...we may make a trade but I don’t think we would trade either unless we get blown away.

[dwtaylor1055]

Question of the day(We have $32 mil in cap space)

 

Option A:

Sign a max level player(D. Russell) to a 4 yr deal at $117 mil(avg $29.25 mil per yr)

 

Option B:

Resign Bojan to a 3 yr deal at $50 mil(avg $16.6 mil per yr).  Bojan said he would take a discount if the Pacers offer is close to other teams so this is on the Pacers to be close in terms of money

Sign Vet PG as stopgap till Aaron Holiday starts at a 2 yr deal at $20 mil(avg $10 mil per yr)

Sign SG to start until Victor returns, then he slides to the backup SG bench position

Edited June 25, 2019 by dwtaylor1055

[Seeking6]

44 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Question of the day(We have $32 mil in cap space)

 

Option A:

Sign a max level player(D. Russell) to a 4 yr deal at $117 mil(avg $29.25 mil per yr)

 

Option B:

Resign Bojan to a 3 yr deal at $50 mil(avg $16.6 mil per yr).  Bojan said he would take a discount if the Pacers offer is close to other teams so this is on the Pacers to be close in terms of money

Sign Vet PG as stopgap till Aaron Holiday starts at a 2 yr deal at $20 mil(avg $10 mil per yr)

Sign SG to start until Victor returns, then he slides to the backup SG bench position

B all day long....but I'm not a fan of Russell and I'm certainly not interested in paying him $10M more per year than our franchise star (Vic). The second you do that deal is the second you better have $ ready for Vic.

[Hoosierhoopster]

Agree with Seeking6

Russell is a good player coming off a very good year. He would be a real upgrade at point and would help the P’s. But not a max player and no way do you pay him Vic money.

[IU Scott]

8 hours ago, dgambill said:

I just don’t get this. Turner signed an extension. We have Sabonis for two more and then he is a restricted free agent. We need more than one big...teams build around these kind of bigs not trade them. In today’s NBA it’s much easier to find shooting and wings then guys like Turner and Sabonis who both fit the new stretch bigs in the NBA. We have tons of cap space...we may make a trade but I don’t think we would trade either unless we get blown away.

I am saying that I don't think you c an start both of them together and play big minutes so to me you will have to choose one to keep and then trade the other.  I don't see Sabonis being satisfied long term coming off the bench so when he hits free agency he will leave.  On the defensive end you just can't play those tow together because I don't see either one being able to guard a stretch 4 type of player.

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Question of the day(We have $32 mil in cap space)

 

Option A:

Sign a max level player(D. Russell) to a 4 yr deal at $117 mil(avg $29.25 mil per yr)

 

Option B:

Resign Bojan to a 3 yr deal at $50 mil(avg $16.6 mil per yr).  Bojan said he would take a discount if the Pacers offer is close to other teams so this is on the Pacers to be close in terms of money

Sign Vet PG as stopgap till Aaron Holiday starts at a 2 yr deal at $20 mil(avg $10 mil per yr)

Sign SG to start until Victor returns, then he slides to the backup SG bench position

Option A all day. Russell is an all-star and skill set that compliments Vic and can even slide over to play some two when Vic sits. Kid is 23 and tons of upside left to grow. I'd hope it wouldn't take the max to sign Russell...maybe something just under it but to get an all star you will have to pay. We just traded for Warren who plays the same position as Bogs and can even slide over and play some stretch 4 if need be. I'm ok with letting Bogs walk although I would be surprised if he doesn't get close to 20 mill. The salary cap jumped up quite a bit...lots of cap room out there and I know San Antonio covets him. I think they were even trying to make a Derozan/Bogs deal at one point but that could have been a rumor. I know Russell would eat a lot of cap but if you want a Robin to Vics Batman you are going to have to sign a max player to get there....and he is much younger and cheaper than options that were discussed months ago like Conley, Paul, or even Kemba. Even with option B...I don't think we will be able to upgrade necessary level at both the guard spots...although I do like Jeremy Lamb as a guy that can play minutes at both the 2 and 3 and hopefully wouldn't be too expensive. We keep getting linked to Rubio so who knows....Bogs and Rubio could be the way we go. I just personally want to have a dynamic backcourt of young guys....and Holliday and Russell I think could play together and then when Vic comes back in January we would have a scary good back court to add to our bigs.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

I am saying that I don't think you c an start both of them together and play big minutes so to me you will have to choose one to keep and then trade the other.  I don't see Sabonis being satisfied long term coming off the bench so when he hits free agency he will leave.  On the defensive end you just can't play those tow together because I don't see either one being able to guard a stretch 4 type of player.

I guess I think we can. I think they have enough lateral quickness to cover most 4's but the other side of the coin is what stretch 4 could guard Domas in the post?? Everyone is going small....and we have a guy that we can do that with in Warren...but I think we need to punish teams for going small....beat them up in the paint and kill them on the boards. If our bigs can also stretch the floor (which they can) while being true bigs then even better. Eventually the pendilum will swing back some....NBA can't keep getting smaller. Someone will buck the trend and just smash mouth teams in the paint getting their stars in foul trouble and beat them on bunnies and free throws. It isn't like we wouldn't have guards and forwards that can't shoot either. I keep all 3...and Pritchard has pretty much said that is what he wants to do...and none of his bigs are tradable at this point and I believe him. This isn't like a Roy Hibbert situation with our bigs...they can still move and stretch the floor.

[dwtaylor1055]

So many options haha

Edited June 25, 2019 by dwtaylor1055

[cybergates]

On 6/12/2019 at 6:27 PM, IU Scott said:

Turner is a one dimensional player who is soft as a babies bottom.  The only thing he does well is block shots but other than that he is pretty mediocre.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/myles-turner/

Counting this year 18-19 and the next four at 18mil Pacers will pay Myles "only" $75mil which is a bargain for a player of his caliber. CARMELO projects his value at 1.7x that.

 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, cybergates said:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/myles-turner/

Counting this year 18-19 and the next four at 18mil Pacers will pay Myles "only" $75mil which is a bargain for a player of his caliber. CARMELO projects his value at 1.7x that.

 

Yes that was a great contract. I hope we do Domas like that too. Give them an extension before their current deal runs out so they get a raise but we get a discount on the deal. They get paid a little sooner and we get a break. It was a smart deal not to let him test the market even if he was restricted.

[BGleas]

I don't love D'Angelo Russell as a max player, but if you can get him to pair with Vic at below the max, then maybe you take that shot. Then if I'm the Pacers I'm hoping players like Sabonis and Holiday develop really nice to the point where I can make some combination of those young guys the centerpiece of a trade for a star player. I don't know if he's the right guy, I'm the biggest fan, but for sake of discussion the next 'star' available is probably going to be somebody like Karl Anthony Townes. 

If you can also keep Bogdanovic on a somewhat fair but team friendly deal, now you have a starting 5 of something like Russel, Oladipo, Bogdanovic, Townes, Turner, with TJ Warren off the bench and then you fill out the bench. That's a team that can make a run at the Finals in the East. 

As currently constituted, I think the Pacers are really good and I like how they've built the team, but IMO they're a star or two away from being a real contender. Again, I'll go back to the Celtics in '07. At the time, everyone loved Al Jefferson, Delonte West and Gerald Green was an exciting young player. A lot of fans wanted that Celtics team along with Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen and a few other young guys they had to grow together. But, Danny made the smart move because you don't win big in the NBA without superstars and he flipped those guys into Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett and they were a Kevin Garnett knee injury in the 08-09 season away from winning 2-3 championships. 

Sabonis is a really, really good young player, and Holiday has the potential to be as well, but if I'm Indiana I'm developing them to the point to where I can hopefully flip them for some legit stars in their prime. I'm not saying Russell and Townes are those guys, I actually think they're probably not, but just using them as examples. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by BGleas

[Hoosierhoopster]

14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don't love D'Angelo Russell as a max player, but if you can get him to pair with Vic at below the max, then maybe you take that shot. Then if I'm the Pacers I'm hoping players like Sabonis and Holiday develop really nice to the point where I can make some combination of those young guys the centerpiece of a trade for a star player. I don't know if he's the right guy, I'm the biggest fan, but for sake of discussion the next 'star' available is probably going to be somebody like Karl Anthony Townes. 

If you can also keep Bogdanovic on a somewhat fair but team friendly deal, now you have a starting 5 of something like Russel, Oladipo, Bogdanovic, Townes, Turner, with TJ Warren off the bench and then you fill out the bench. That's a team that can make a run at the Finals in the East. 

As currently constituted, I think the Pacers are really good and I like how they've built the team, but IMO they're a star or two away from being a real contender. Again, I'll go back to the Celtics in '07. At the time, everyone loved Al Jefferson, Delonte West and Gerald Green was an exciting young player. A lot of fans wanted that Celtics team along with Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen and a few other young guys they had to grow together. But, Danny made the smart move because you don't win big in the NBA without superstars and he flipped those guys into Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett and they were a Kevin Garnett knee injury in the 08-09 season away from winning 2-3 championships. 

Sabonis is a really, really good young player, and Holiday has the potential to be as well, but if I'm Indiana I'm developing them to the point to where I can hopefully flip them for some legit stars in their prime. I'm not saying Russell and Townes are those guys, I actually think they're probably not, but just using them as examples. 

Largely agree.

A somewhat alternate path for a mid-market team like the P's is to find the rising star, as opposed to a KAT -- they were very close when they brought in Jermaine O'Neal and Artest while Regg was still there and still amazing but slowing with age. Before Artest's incredible stupidity that resulted in the brawl in the Palace (also resulting from Detroit's moronic fans players), that team was a legit title-contending team (and they were destroying Detroit  in that game, fwiw). If Vic stays healthy, there are a number of guys who might pair well with him as another high-level scorer. It's a lot harder for an IN than a Boston to acquire proven stars. 

[BGleas]

42 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Largely agree.

A somewhat alternate path for a mid-market team like the P's is to find the rising star, as opposed to a KAT -- they were very close when they brought in Jermaine O'Neal and Artest while Regg was still there and still amazing but slowing with age. Before Artest's incredible stupidity that resulted in the brawl in the Palace (also resulting from Detroit's moronic fans players), that team was a legit title-contending team (and they were destroying Detroit  in that game, fwiw). If Vic stays healthy, there are a number of guys who might pair well with him as another high-level scorer. It's a lot harder for an IN than a Boston to acquire proven stars. 

Yes and no. Boston is certainly more of a destination than the Pacers. Not denying that. But, really Al Horford and Gordon Hayward were the first big free agents the Celtics ever got. Boston hasn't historically been a free agent destination, and I think Horford/Hayward are more due to the new CBA rules making player movement much more a thing. 

The Garnett and Allen acquisitions weren't free agent moves, they were smart drafting and shrewd trades, which is exactly what it would be if Indiana was able to flip Sabonis/Holiday for a star. 

[dwtaylor1055]

So someone earlier on social media mentioned this below earlier, which I really like:

Sign Brogdon or Russell then move to Rubio if we strike out on Russell or Brogdon, use early bird rights to retain Bojan(up to $19 mil per yr) which allows Pacers to go over the salary cap and then offer the $9 mil NTMLE(non-taxpayer mid Level Exception) to Seth Curry or JJ Redick as SG to fill shoes until Vic returns, then slide into back SG.  This only works if we are over the cap BUT under the tax apron, my question is what is the tax apron?  The salary cap is at $109 mil. 

[IU Scott]

Just now, dwtaylor1055 said:

So someone earlier on social media mentioned this below earlier, which I really like:

Sign Brogdon or Russell then move to Rubio if we strike out on Russell or Brogdon, use early bird rights to retain Bojan(up to $19 mil per yr) which allows Pacers to go over the salary cap and then offer the $9 mil NTMLE(non-taxpayer mid Level Exception) to Seth Curry or JJ Redick as SG to fill shoes until Vic returns, then slide into back SG.  This only works if we are over the cap BUT under the tax apron, my question is what is the tax apron?  The salary cap is at $109 mil. 

I like the idea of Brogdon and saw a person on YouTube predicting that the Pacers would sign him.  One problem with your idea is that the Pacers owners will never go over the luxury tax

[dwtaylor1055]

10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I like the idea of Brogdon and saw a person on YouTube predicting that the Pacers would sign him.  One problem with your idea is that the Pacers owners will never go over the luxury tax

Found it!  The cap is $109 mil, the luxury tax is $132 mil($23 mil between the cap and luxury tax as lee weigh).  SO IF and I mean IF the pacers and Simons want to spend a little money and can stay under the luxury tax this CAN happen below in two different options.  The EAST is wide open next year.

 

Option A:

$32.5 Mil available to spend and here is how they can accomplish this by spending a little money out of pocket BUT staying well under the luxury tax:

$25 Mil to sign either Brogdon or Russell

$19 Mil to resign Bojan

$9 NTMLE(non-taxpayer mid Level Exception) to sign either Seth Curry or JJ Redick

 

This brings the total to $53 mil.  We would be over by roughly $21 mil, HOWEVER we would still be under the luxury cap by around $2 mil

 

Option B:

$32.5 Mil available to spend and here is how they can accomplish this by spending a little money out of pocket BUT staying well under the luxury tax:

$11 Mil to sign Rubio(all signs and sources are pointing to Rubio to the Pacers whether people like it or not)

$19 Mil to resign Bojan

$12 Mil to sign JJ Redick

 

This brings total to $42 mil.  We would be over by roughly $10 mil, HOWEVER we would be still be under the luxury cap by around $13 mil so ALOT less spent out of Simons pocket to help move the needle in an east that is WIDE open. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by dwtaylor1055

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Found it!  The cap is $109 mil, the luxury tax is $132 mil($23 mil between the cap and luxury tax as lee weigh).  SO IF and I mean IF the pacers and Simons want to spend a little money and can stay under the luxury tax this CAN happen below in two different options.  The EAST is wide open next year.

 

Option A:

$32.5 Mil available to spend and here is how they can accomplish this by spending a little money out of pocket BUT staying well under the luxury tax:

$25 Mil to sign either Brogdon or Russell

$19 Mil to resign Bojan

$9 NTMLE(non-taxpayer mid Level Exception) to sign either Seth Curry or JJ Redick

 

This brings the total to $53 mil.  We would be over by roughly $21 mil, HOWEVER we would still be under the luxury cap by around $2 mil

 

Option B:

$32.5 Mil available to spend and here is how they can accomplish this by spending a little money out of pocket BUT staying well under the luxury tax:

$11 Mil to sign Rubio(all signs and sources are pointing to Rubio to the Pacers whether people like it or not)

$19 Mil to resign Bojan

$12 Mil to sign JJ Redick

 

This brings total to $42 mil.  We would be over by roughly $10 mil, HOWEVER we would be still be under the luxury cap by around $13 mil so ALOT less spent out of Simons pocket to help move the needle in an east that is WIDE open. 

Sounded like the Pacers came real close to signing Redick last year but at the last minute Philly raised their offer

[dwtaylor1055]

9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Sounded like the Pacers came real close to signing Redick last year but at the last minute Philly raised their offer

Yes Redick was very close to signing here. 

 

Also, Pacers do have a "Walk Away" number in mind should the sweepstakes for Bojan goes too high according to Zach Lowe.  If that happens, I have no idea what happens or what the pacers should try and do because all I have done is tried to look at ways to keep Bojan and get better at the same time lol

 

If Pacers let Bojan walk, TJ Warren can start at SF and Doug as the direct backup at SF or You COULD go after say Rudy Gay around $10 mil per yr, Rubio or Beverley at say $12 mil per yr and Redick for say $12 mil.  That puts us right at or just a touch over the salary cap.  Gay and Warren can both play some PF when you want to go small, have foul trouble with the bigs or want to run.

PG- Rubio or Beverley/Holiday

SG- Victor/Redick/Sumner

SF-Gay/Warren/McDermott

PF- Sabonis/Leaf/Alize

C-Turner/Goga

Edited June 25, 2019 by dwtaylor1055

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Yes and no. Boston is certainly more of a destination than the Pacers. Not denying that. But, really Al Horford and Gordon Hayward were the first big free agents the Celtics ever got. Boston hasn't historically been a free agent destination, and I think Horford/Hayward are more due to the new CBA rules making player movement much more a thing. 

The Garnett and Allen acquisitions weren't free agent moves, they were smart drafting and shrewd trades, which is exactly what it would be if Indiana was able to flip Sabonis/Holiday for a star. 

Yes....lot's of basketball players hate living in Boston. Whatever it's worth...real or perceived Boston has had a racist history and lacks the culture of say New York, Philadelphia, or of course LA. Boston has it's struggles...but I think a lot of that has been how they've been run. They have always been pretty shrewd with contracts and paying guys or moving on from them. But mostly I just don't think culturally Boston is a town a lot of NBA guys want to go play in. For that matter...Indy is as well. Very sleepy city.

Edited June 25, 2019 by dgambill

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Yes Redick was very close to signing here. 

 

Also, Pacers do have a "Walk Away" number in mind should the sweepstakes for Bojan goes too high according to Zach Lowe.  If that happens, I have no idea what happens or what the pacers should try and do because all I have done is tried to look at ways to keep Bojan and get better at the same time lol

 

If Pacers let Bojan walk, TJ Warren can start at SF and Doug as the direct backup at SF or You COULD go after say Rudy Gay around $10 mil per yr, Rubio or Beverley at say $12 mil per yr and Redick for say $12 mil.  That puts us right at or just a touch over the salary cap.  Gay and Warren can both play some PF when you want to go small, have foul trouble with the bigs or want to run.

PG- Rubio or Beverley/Holiday

SG- Victor/Redick/Sumner

SF-Gay/Warren/McDermott

PF- Sabonis/Leaf/Alize

C-Turner/Goga

If Pacers go the Rubio I'd try to sign Jeremy Lamb. Not a big 3pt threat but he is a 15/5/2 guy who can play both wings (sg/sf). Problem is it would be suicide to sign two non-shooters in Rubio and Lamb. I like Lamb...plays pretty good defense and can fill two positions...not a guy that needs a lot of plays for him to be productive. Probably an 8-10 million guy. I'd love to make some minor moves to sign him and Russell. I think we are moving on from Bogs...no reason we go out and get a clone in Warren and pay $11 million for him if we weren't. I also think there is a snow balls chance in h@ll we go over the cap.

Edited June 25, 2019 by dgambill