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6 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Just a thought on what Pacers would give up to get Gordon. If they believe with him and a healthy Vic (after January 1st) they are better than this year's team I'd say offer up next year 1st round choice. Assuming we improve that pick would be in the 20's....I'd take what I know we're getting in Eric Gordon vs the unknown of a 1st round pick in the 20's.

I'd be in for getting Gordon but I'm not giving up a first. He will be a free agent after the year and could just as easily walk. Given we won't have Vic for most of the year and we likely will change up our team quite a bit I don't take a chance of giving up a pick unless it's lottery protected. I'd offer multiple 2's....otherwise just sign Gordon when he is a free agent next offseason.

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3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

The heads are talking Kemba to Boston.  Pretty good consolation after losing Kyrie, actually I would call it a net improvement factoring chemistry.  Wonder if Horford would stick around if they offered 4 or 5 years now?  @BGleas

That's potentially a great fit....because they lack shooting and shot creation. They still need a true PG...but you could go after a guy like Joseph to help your defense and he can guard both 1's and 2's. Who knows...maybe they can convince Jordan that if he is going to lose Kemba to do a sign and trade for Heyward or a 3 team deal...which would allow you to keep cap space open for another max player. Whatever they do they have a glut at the 3 if they bring in Kemba...because they already have Tatum on the wing as well and then you have Brown and Heyward too. They will have to move somebody as Kemba isn't playing the point.

Edited by dgambill

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24 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That's potentially a great fit....because they lack shooting and shot creation. They still need a true PG...but you could go after a guy like Joseph to help your defense and he can guard both 1's and 2's. Who knows...maybe they can convince Jordan that if he is going to lose Kemba to do a sign and trade for Heyward or a 3 team deal...which would allow you to keep cap space open for another max player. Whatever they do they have a glut at the 3 if they bring in Kemba...because they already have Tatum on the wing as well and then you have Brown and Heyward too. They will have to move somebody as Kemba isn't playing the point.

He's played the point his entire career? He's not a guy that's going to average 11apg, but he has been Charlotte's main ball handler pretty much his entire career and if he comes to Boston he would be the main ball hander for the Celtics too. He's a score first point guard, much like Kyrie, but he is a point guard. Difference with Kyrie is that Kemba is actually a good teammate/locker room guy. 

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On 6/20/2019 at 10:31 AM, Seeking6 said:

My limited understanding is they've been clearing cap space all week to make it happen for either Kawhi or possibly Kyrie. 

Seems like the Lakers followed up on what we were discussing last week. They cleared space to now have another max guy. 

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30 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Seems like the Lakers followed up on what we were discussing last week. They cleared space to now have another max guy. 

Was saying above they were working on it, but when I did the reaction was not possible, lol. AD waived his $4M. Will be interesting to see who they add, another big name guy or breaking up the extra money to bring in a few or a couple talented vets. 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

He's played the point his entire career? He's not a guy that's going to average 11apg, but he has been Charlotte's main ball handler pretty much his entire career and if he comes to Boston he would be the main ball hander for the Celtics too. He's a score first point guard, much like Kyrie, but he is a point guard. Difference with Kyrie is that Kemba is actually a good teammate/locker room guy. 

If Kemba goes to Boston, do the Celtics still keep Carsen Edwards?

 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

He's played the point his entire career? He's not a guy that's going to average 11apg, but he has been Charlotte's main ball handler pretty much his entire career and if he comes to Boston he would be the main ball hander for the Celtics too. He's a score first point guard, much like Kyrie, but he is a point guard. Difference with Kyrie is that Kemba is actually a good teammate/locker room guy. 

Ooh.  Ooh Ooh.  Typo alert.  You typed 'Hander' instead of 'Handler'.   Got to stick up for those boys in Accounting, you know.  :coffee:

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6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If Kemba goes to Boston, do the Celtics still keep Carsen Edwards?

 

Yes, signing Kemba is unrelated. The Celtics were never going to start a second round pick rookie at point guard. Even they can't get Kemba for some reason, then they'd probably retain Rozier and Edwards would be behind him and Smart. 

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7 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Ooh.  Ooh Ooh.  Typo alert.  You typed 'Hander' instead of 'Handler'.   Got to stick up for those boys in Accounting, you know.  :coffee:

Oh man, please don't go through all of my posts. 

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8 hours ago, BGleas said:

He's played the point his entire career? He's not a guy that's going to average 11apg, but he has been Charlotte's main ball handler pretty much his entire career and if he comes to Boston he would be the main ball hander for the Celtics too. He's a score first point guard, much like Kyrie, but he is a point guard. Difference with Kyrie is that Kemba is actually a good teammate/locker room guy. 

Really...haven’t watched them play a lot because they are so bad...looking at his numbers it would scare me to have him as my full time point guard. To me he would be a perfect compliment next to a Ben Simmons or Lonzo Ball who are non shooting or non tradition ball handlers or like Lebron...where point guard plays off another primary ball handler but could still guard the opposing point. I just would have to have another distributor in that offense...too many mouths to feed imo for a point guard that primarily looks for his own shot...offense gets stagnant guys stand around and a team with that much talent should play similar to GS where they move the ball from side to side and screen and move and take the first good shot...not Iso ball that doesn’t get everyone involved. Guess I would use Kemba differently.

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11 hours ago, dgambill said:

Really...haven’t watched them play a lot because they are so bad...looking at his numbers it would scare me to have him as my full time point guard. To me he would be a perfect compliment next to a Ben Simmons or Lonzo Ball who are non shooting or non tradition ball handlers or like Lebron...where point guard plays off another primary ball handler but could still guard the opposing point. I just would have to have another distributor in that offense...too many mouths to feed imo for a point guard that primarily looks for his own shot...offense gets stagnant guys stand around and a team with that much talent should play similar to GS where they move the ball from side to side and screen and move and take the first good shot...not Iso ball that doesn’t get everyone involved. Guess I would use Kemba differently.

He's been a point guard his entire career. Yes, he's more of a scoring point guard, no doubt about that, but at the same time his best teammates in his career have been Nicholas Batum and Jeremy Lamb. He's excelled and played for one of the worst run organizations in the NBA. Let's see what he can do when he's with a real organization with teammates that can shoot and create on their own. He's definitely a bit in the Kyrie mold in terms of style of play, but this is more about being a good teammate and being coachable, which Kemba is and a guy like Dame Lilliard is, as opposed to Kyrie who has basically caused problems everywhere he's been.

But Kemba is a ballhandler and a shot creator, not a shooting guard. He's a good-to-great teammate and leader which should help him excel in Boston. I definitely have some concerns about his efficiency and the big concern is that you're not just swapping Kyrie for Kemba, you also have to renounce Al Horford to make this work, but my hope is that with a better organization, better coaching and better teammates Kemba is less Kyrie and more Dame Lillard. 

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I find it funny that ESPN is already reporting some of these deals for players are almost finalized even though you can't start negotiate until Sunday at 6PM

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20 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Well, Collison isn't coming back since he just retired.  

https://theundefeated.com/features/darren-collison-i-have-decided-to-retire-from-the-nba/

That’s weird. I’m proud to be a Christian and completely understand serving him but what bigger stage and platform could there be to do that then the NBA? An opportunity to not only glorify God but make a substantial living that you could then use as well to do his will. Then again Gods calling often doesn’t make sense to the outside....so who knows...still peculiar. 

Pacers related it seems everywhere I go it’s Rubio is our primary focus. Not very exciting when we have max available money but this seems to be a Pacer move...let’s gather decent affordable talent and take no big swings at success.

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So much for the theory that the NBA is not about the big market teams.  All of the big time free agents are only considering big market teams and don't see the names like the Jazz or the Pacers mentioned. On ESPN  radio they were talking what would a perfect off season would be for the NBA and they talked about how the Lakers getting another top player plus having teams like New York and Brooklyn getting a couple of the top free agents.  They talked about how this would be the best for the NBA with having all the top markets having top players and competing for the titles.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

That’s weird. I’m proud to be a Christian and completely understand serving him but what bigger stage and platform could there be to do that then the NBA? An opportunity to not only glorify God but make a substantial living that you could then use as well to do his will. Then again Gods calling often doesn’t make sense to the outside....so who knows...still peculiar. 

Pacers related it seems everywhere I go it’s Rubio is our primary focus. Not very exciting when we have max available money but this seems to be a Pacer move...let’s gather decent affordable talent and take no big swings at success.

They were talking on local radio the other day with Doyel of the Star and talking about why top free agents  have no interest in coming to Indiana.  One of the reasons seemed way off and don't believe it but he said the politics in Indiana has turned off young NBA players.  Also stated the fact that there is very little night life and the weather is not desirable.  There are no beaches or mountains or that much to do in Indiana.

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Just saw the Bucks are waiving Hill.  Could he come back and fill the Pacers recent PG opening??  I'd take him over Rubio.

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2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

So much for the theory that the NBA is not about the big market teams.  All of the big time free agents are only considering big market teams and don't see the names like the Jazz or the Pacers mentioned. On ESPN  radio they were talking what would a perfect off season would be for the NBA and they talked about how the Lakers getting another top player plus having teams like New York and Brooklyn getting a couple of the top free agents.  They talked about how this would be the best for the NBA with having all the top markets having top players and competing for the titles.

Just my opinion, but ESPN's opinion on anything hasn't been worth a f#$& for a decade. They're the equivalent of clickbait across multiple methods of distribution. They don't project what would be best for the NBA. They project what would be best for ESPN covering the NBA.

ESPN isn't going to mention those teams because there are fewer people in those areas that they can sell advertising to.

Plus, as you mentioned, negotiating hasn't started yet. So don't take their word as fact when it's an opinion, and a biased opinion at that. It's all Shakespearean: It is a tale, told by an idiot. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Edited by Zlinedavid

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11 hours ago, IU Scott said:

So much for the theory that the NBA is not about the big market teams.  All of the big time free agents are only considering big market teams and don't see the names like the Jazz or the Pacers mentioned. On ESPN  radio they were talking what would a perfect off season would be for the NBA and they talked about how the Lakers getting another top player plus having teams like New York and Brooklyn getting a couple of the top free agents.  They talked about how this would be the best for the NBA with having all the top markets having top players and competing for the titles.

Again though, I go back to having an organization that's willing to be aggressive. You are right, Kawhi is not going to come to Indiana, neither is LeBron or Durant, they're just not. But, that doesn't mean the Pacers can't get a star to pair with VO. Look at Houston, granted a bigger market, but they have no cap space and are pretty salary strapped, but they're not letting that stop them from getting into the Jimmy Butler sweepstakes.

I see Pacers fans on here constantly talking about how great Sabonis is, and yes he's a really nice developing young player. Well, you want to compete now with VO, which the Pacers could, go get into the Butler sweepstakes and offer something like Sabonis and a first with some other filler. 

Yes, you'd have to convince Butler to want to come to Indiana, but outside of the injury, I don't see why Indiana wouldn't be a destination for a guy that wants to pair with VO and be a contender in the East. There's no reason the Pacers can't do it. Between Sabonis, Turner, Holiday and picks, the Pacers have some desirable assets.

Again, I agree that the top 5 free agents aren't likely coming to Indiana, they're going to bigger markets, no disagreement there, but there's still no reason the Pacers can't build a contender. 

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13 hours ago, dgambill said:

That’s weird. I’m proud to be a Christian and completely understand serving him but what bigger stage and platform could there be to do that then the NBA? An opportunity to not only glorify God but make a substantial living that you could then use as well to do his will. Then again Gods calling often doesn’t make sense to the outside....so who knows...still peculiar. 

Pacers related it seems everywhere I go it’s Rubio is our primary focus. Not very exciting when we have max available money but this seems to be a Pacer move...let’s gather decent affordable talent and take no big swings at success.

Regarding Collison. My guess is come December Lebron will lob a call and say we need you and he'll be a Laker before end of the season.

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11 hours ago, IU Scott said:

They were talking on local radio the other day with Doyel of the Star and talking about why top free agents  have no interest in coming to Indiana.  One of the reasons seemed way off and don't believe it but he said the politics in Indiana has turned off young NBA players.  Also stated the fact that there is very little night life and the weather is not desirable.  There are no beaches or mountains or that much to do in Indiana.

I know it's not your opinion but Doyel saying that might be the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile i.e. politics. (I know we can't discuss so I'll just leave it there). Regarding night life. I'm still amazed at people who think Indy is boring. Maybe 20 years ago but literally something for everyone all over the city. Mass Ave, Fountain Square, Canal, Ripple, Keystone, Carmel,etc.....people suggesting Indy is boring obviously haven't been out in a couple of decades. 

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Again though, I go back to having an organization that's willing to be aggressive. You are right, Kawhi is not going to come to Indiana, neither is LeBron or Durant, they're just not. But, that doesn't mean the Pacers can't get a star to pair with VO. Look at Houston, granted a bigger market, but they have no cap space and are pretty salary strapped, but they're not letting that stop them from getting into the Jimmy Butler sweepstakes.

I see Pacers fans on here constantly talking about how great Sabonis is, and yes he's a really nice developing young player. Well, you want to compete now with VO, which the Pacers could, go get into the Butler sweepstakes and offer something like Sabonis and a first with some other filler. 

Yes, you'd have to convince Butler to want to come to Indiana, but outside of the injury, I don't see why Indiana wouldn't be a destination for a guy that wants to pair with VO and be a contender in the East. There's no reason the Pacers can't do it. Between Sabonis, Turner, Holiday and picks, the Pacers have some desirable assets.

Again, I agree that the top 5 free agents aren't likely coming to Indiana, they're going to bigger markets, no disagreement there, but there's still no reason the Pacers can't build a contender. 

Stars do not up and go to IN, or Portland, etc. That they don’t in fairness is clear. 

Yes you can build through smart acquisitions and trades along with the draft, to build a contender — the Pacers have already done that. They were the Beast of the East for some time, and yes what the owners are willing to do with the luxury tax etc. makes a difference (IN’s and Rockets’ ownership could not be more different), but Gleas, the differences between major metropolitan - destination cities and mid- or small market cities just can’t be discounted. It’s a major hurdle to building a real contender through trades. 

Houston is the 4th largest city in the country, is a major destination city for players (no state income tax, a long-time destination city for athletes, rappers, etc., a reputation for food and strip clubs), couldn’t be more different than IN, and Moray? There’s just no comparison there.

IN, Portland etc. build through the draft and getting guys who are up and coming but not yet elite stars, or are more or less equal to who is being traded. The Artest-Jermain O’Neal to Pacers is an example. 

Btw, no one in IN wants Butler lol. Major locker room cancer. If Houston gets him how that works out with Harden and CP is going to be interesting to watch.

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It appears that the Pacers will be singing Ricky Rubio come 6pm tonight. Hs is a good ball handler and passer but can't really shot so I don't know about this signing.  Also read where Utah is looking at Bojan so if we lose him then we will have a hole at the 2 and the 3.  I guess Warren would be the 3 but we need to get a great shooter to play the 2.

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47 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

It appears that the Pacers will be singing Ricky Rubio come 6pm tonight. Hs is a good ball handler and passer but can't really shot so I don't know about this signing.  Also read where Utah is looking at Bojan so if we lose him then we will have a hole at the 2 and the 3.  I guess Warren would be the 3 but we need to get a great shooter to play the 2.

So basically the pacers aren't improving this year.  That makes 2 off seasons in a row of little to no improvement.   Losing Bojan and adding Warren may be a stroke of genius or another step back.  We shall see.  

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

It appears that the Pacers will be singing Ricky Rubio come 6pm tonight. Hs is a good ball handler and passer but can't really shot so I don't know about this signing.  Also read where Utah is looking at Bojan so if we lose him then we will have a hole at the 2 and the 3.  I guess Warren would be the 3 but we need to get a great shooter to play the 2.

I think it’s great that they’re singing to him. That’s a unique approach for sure. And Vic’s a great singer. 

😀

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