NotIThatLives Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Well the pacers have salvaged this off season but I'll never forget the wasted opportunity. I was told Cory Joseph had no trade value - 3 year 37 mil, what does that mean for Yogi? Thad Young could have fetched a 1st rounder, gone - 3 years 41 million. Bojan, gone -4 year 75 million. A decent cache, instead nothing. Collison, no one saw it coming but at least worth a few 2nd rounders, which we have seen become decent trade assets. OQuinn would have brought a 2nd rounder as well as Wesley and maybe even Evans. Could you image the pacers sitting on 2 more 1st rounders and 3 second rounders. Smh. For a 1st round predictable exit. May gone down as the biggest mistake in franchise history outside of the malice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Well the pacers have salvaged this off season but I'll never forget the wasted opportunity. I was told Cory Joseph had no trade value - 3 year 37 mil, what does that mean for Yogi? Thad Young could have fetched a 1st rounder, gone - 3 years 41 million. Bojan, gone -4 year 75 million. A decent cache, instead nothing. Collison, no one saw it coming but at least worth a few 2nd rounders, which we have seen become decent trade assets. OQuinn would have brought a 2nd rounder as well as Wesley and maybe even Evans. Could you image the pacers sitting on 2 more 1st rounders and 3 second rounders. Smh. For a 1st round predictable exit. May gone down as the biggest mistake in franchise history outside of the malice. Evans is suspended from the NBA for two years. T Young, Bog, and CJ were unrestricted? No ones giving us a 2nd rd for Oquinn. Collison isnt going to bring in anything, but he was unrestricted too. No way anyone is trading a 1st for Thad. Are you saying we should have done all this at the trade deadline? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 I'm sorry but I can't go along with the idea that we should just quit because we dont have VO. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Well the pacers have salvaged this off season but I'll never forget the wasted opportunity. I was told Cory Joseph had no trade value - 3 year 37 mil, what does that mean for Yogi? Thad Young could have fetched a 1st rounder, gone - 3 years 41 million. Bojan, gone -4 year 75 million. A decent cache, instead nothing. Collison, no one saw it coming but at least worth a few 2nd rounders, which we have seen become decent trade assets. OQuinn would have brought a 2nd rounder as well as Wesley and maybe even Evans. Could you image the pacers sitting on 2 more 1st rounders and 3 second rounders. Smh. For a 1st round predictable exit. May gone down as the biggest mistake in franchise history outside of the malice. Well for one thing we couldn't have traded Mathew's since we did not sign him until after the trade deadline. I doubt Thad would have gotten you a 1st round pick at his age and teams are more willing to pay players than give up assets for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 58 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Butler is a strong player, but he's not a top 10 guy, he's not a franchise player who leads a team to a championship or even to the conference finals. I think that Butler is a Top 10 guy, BUT as mentioned he's stubborn and can disrupt the locker room and most importantly he played for Thibs. He's borderline top ten now, but for how long? I think that teams may be frightened of the wear and tear on his body. I think he lead the league in minutes played in 3 of the last 5 years he played for Thibs - and was in the top 5 for the other 2 years. That said, I think giving up that 5th year is pretty surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, btownqb said: Evans is suspended from the NBA for two years. T Young, Bog, and CJ were unrestricted? No ones giving us a 2nd rd for Oquinn. Collison isnt going to bring in anything, but he was unrestricted too. No way anyone is trading a 1st for Thad. Are you saying we should have done all this at the trade deadline? Yes. 3 of those guys just proved they had value. Why are people denying that? And during the season Collison was more valuable than Joseph so he could have been traded as well. You're probably right nobody is giving anything for O'Quinn. Evans got suspended in the offseason not during the season whether or not somebody would have given something for him who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 57 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Well for one thing we couldn't have traded Mathew's since we did not sign him until after the trade deadline. I doubt Thad would have gotten you a 1st round pick at his age and teams are more willing to pay players than give up assets for them. You are correct on Matthews. It's hard to say that thad has no value when he just got 3 years 41 million. That argument has just Fallen completely on deaf ears with me. I'll just agree to disagree with everyone, except @BGleas who has been in my corner on this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Yes. 3 of those guys just proved they had value. Why are people denying that? And during the season Collison was more valuable than Joseph so he could have been traded as well. You're probably right nobody is giving anything for O'Quinn. Evans got suspended in the offseason not during the season whether or not somebody would have given something for him who knows Since none would have gotten you a 1st round pick I don't see the purpose in trading them when we were still in the top 5 in the playoff picture. At the time of the trade deadline I think we were 3rd in the conference and the fans would have been in an uproar if you broke up the team at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Since none would have gotten you a 1st round pick I don't see the purpose in trading them when we were still in the top 5 in the playoff picture. At the time of the trade deadline I think we were 3rd in the conference and the fans would have been in an uproar if you broke up the team at that time. The Pacers play Checkers plain and simple. If you or I were the GM we could have put together this exact same offseason. this was not chess moves this was checkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Seth Curry vs Jeremy Lamb. Discuss. The Mavs just picked Curry up for 4 years 32 million. Lamp 3 years 31 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) The Lakers obviously have high hopes for Khawi since they haven't taken one guy. I hope he stays with Raptors if not goes to the Clippers that would be hilarious with the Lakers striking out there one injury away from Lottery. Edited July 1, 2019 by NotIThatLives 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Seth Curry vs Jeremy Lamb. Discuss. The Mavs just picked Curry up for 4 years 32 million. Lamp 3 years 31 mil. Curry 6'2", last 3 seasons played(15-16, 16-17, 18-19) 9.3 PPG, 1.9 RPG, 1.7 APG, 43% 3pt(on 684 attempts), 46% FG%, 28 years old Lamb 6'5", last 3 seasons played(16-17,17-18,18-19) 12.6 PPG, 4.6 RBP, 1.9 APG, 34% 3pt( on 730 attempts), 45% FG%, 26 years old Lamb can play SG or SF. Curry limited to SG(not a primary ball handler although he can play small minutes as a PG). Curry the better 3 pt shooter. Lamb better defender. Curry def has a better deal, however Lamb can play more positions of need and is a little more versatile IMO. @NotIThatLives Thoughts? Edited July 1, 2019 by dwtaylor1055 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Seth Curry vs Jeremy Lamb. Discuss. The Mavs just picked Curry up for 4 years 32 million. Lamp 3 years 31 mil. Lamb gives us more until Vic gets back. In the Pacers eyes.. that's an easy choice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said: Curry 6'2", last 3 seasons played(15-16, 16-17, 18-19) 9.3 PPG, 1.9 RPG, 1.7 APG, 43% 3pt(on 684 attempts), 46% FG%, 28 years old Lamb 6'5", last 3 seasons played(16-17,17-18,18-19) 12.6 PPG, 4.6 RBP, 1.9 APG, 34% 3pt( on 730 attempts), 45% FG%, 26 years old Lamb can play SG or SF. Curry limited to SG(not a primary ball handler although he can play small minutes as a PG). Curry the better 3 pt shooter. Lamb better defender. Curry def has a better deal, however Lamb can play more positions of need and is a little more versatile IMO. @NotIThatLives Thoughts? Thank you. Great info. I like lamb's versatility and don't think he's peaked. Just didn't want to be a homer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said: Thank you. Great info. I like lamb's versatility and don't think he's peaked. Just didn't want to be a homer. Best thing about Warren, Brog, and Lamb.. they're just now getting into their prime. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Thank you. Great info. I like lamb's versatility and don't think he's peaked. Just didn't want to be a homer. No worries, glad to help. Love these discussions. Also you can look at it this way that: Best to worst on team(Guards) - Oladipo/Brogdon/Holiday(Potential)/Curry/Sumner Depth Chart(SF) - Warren/Lamb/McDerrmott Curry would be the 4th best guard on our team whereas Lamb would be the 2nd best SF on the team. RIght now Lamb is probably better than Holiday if you wanted to group him as a guard but after this season Holiday will be better than Lamb IMO. 3 minutes ago, btownqb said: Best thing about Warren, Brog, and Lamb.. they're just now getting into their prime. This.... All entering their prime for sure with Brogdon having the highest ceiling of the 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 hours ago, tdhoosier said: I think that Butler is a Top 10 guy, BUT as mentioned he's stubborn and can disrupt the locker room and most importantly he played for Thibs. He's borderline top ten now, but for how long? I think that teams may be frightened of the wear and tear on his body. I think he lead the league in minutes played in 3 of the last 5 years he played for Thibs - and was in the top 5 for the other 2 years. That said, I think giving up that 5th year is pretty surprising. Everyone can have their own top 10, to an extent it's subjective. He's definitely top 20, but most would have him outside the top 10, fwiw. Generally all of these guys, at least, would be ahead of Butler Kawhi LBJ Curry Durant Greek Freak Anthony Davis Harden Westbrook Embiid Paul George Jokic Lillard Klay Thompson -- Butler won't be tied to the 4-year deal, he'll just re-negotiate it / work it out later. The way the top players / their agents are approaching contracts recently these deals are not set in stone. He gives himself more flexibility with a 4-year deal. He will go for more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27097382/sources-blazers-acquire-whiteside-heat Heat trading Whiteside to Blazers for Leonard and Harckless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Everyone can have their own top 10, to an extent it's subjective. He's definitely top 20, but most would have him outside the top 10, fwiw. Generally all of these guys, at least, would be ahead of Butler Kawhi LBJ Curry Durant Greek Freak Anthony Davis Harden Westbrook Embiid Paul George Jokic Lillard Klay Thompson Butler may be cancer, he's also a 4 time all defensive team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just now, NotIThatLives said: Butler may be cancer, he's also a 4 time all defensive team. Definitely a good 2-way player, but all of the above are better players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said: You lost me. He'll be going on 35 at the end of this 4 year. If he doesn't retire he can probably get the veterans minimum if he's still healthy. I dont understand your argument because factually he left money on the table. I think the answer is that he left some money on the table, but it's not as if he gave Miami a discount either. $35.5M/year in Miami vs $38M/year in Philly. That's about 6.5% less per year. However, Florida has 0 state income tax. The state of Pennsylvania has a flat 3% tax on all income, and the city of Philadelphia is an additional 3.8%. So for those 4 years, he's even or slightly ahead. The 5th year is what he left. But, this isn't his first big payday. At the end of this 4 year contract, he'll have made well over $200M. Maybe he values the flexibility for the last year or two in his career, if he wants to go after a ring should he not win one in Miami. Maybe it's worth $30M to him to spend 2/3rds of the year in Miami vs Philly; he can afford to pay for a choice like that. Maybe he's still playing at a level to warrant more than just the minimum. If he's a year younger, maybe he gets a team to go for a few years longer instead of just the vet minimum. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said: 4 years vs. 5 is not leaving money on the table. Just one factor and I know it's only $5-$6M (still a chunk of change) is no state income tax in Florida vs whatever the rate is in Pennsylvania. Not just contract, but endorsement $, shoe deals,etc....would love to know the total savings for guys when they choose Florida, Texas, Arizona over other states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Just one factor and I know it's only $5-$6M (still a chunk of change) is no state income tax in Florida vs whatever the rate is in Pennsylvania. Not just contract, but endorsement $, shoe deals,etc....would love to know the total savings for guys when they choose Florida, Texas, Arizona over other states. Right. I can't really speak to the difference, living in Texas I can tell you that Texas goes nuts on property taxes (often held unconstitutional) to make up as much as it can of not having a state income tax (kind of a bait and switch), but it is generally a chunk of change and a factor in assessing total contract value, along with the other stuff. And he won't be bound by a 4-year deal anyway, he and his agent will work that out later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 From what I understand, Philly never offered and weren't planning on offering a 5th year. So, Butler actually didn't leave any money on the table. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Gleas, how you feeling about the C's moves so far? Expectation for other Boston moves this summer - going into the season? Seems like it's getting crazy every off season now. One thing remains constant though -- the Knicks are self-destructing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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