NBA Thread

[btownqb]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The timing doesn't work out right now for Towns, but if the Pacers can acquire some draft picks, I honestly don't know what their pick situation is, and if Holiday is a stud as you say, then the Pacers would have the assets to be competitive for the next star that becomes available on the trade market. 

Again if Holiday shows signs of development a package of Sabonis, Holiday, contract filler and picks would be competitive in the trade market for a star. 

Not for Towns though. Wolves would be ignorant to trade him. 

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

You are the one that said holiday is such a stud

I know, he will be off the bench. Congrats. 

[dwtaylor1055]

With dealing a 1st to the Bucks to seal the deal in terms of getting Brogdon to Indy, I really do not see the Pacers trading another future 1st rd pick in the near future unless they acquire a 1st somehow.  They have yet to release what year the draft picks we sent to the Bucks will be. 

[BGleas]

9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Not for Towns though. Wolves would be ignorant to trade him. 

Yeah, there's no way they're trading him anytime soon, but as his rookie extension approaches about 2 years left Minnesota will be in the same situation New Orleans was with Davis, unless they can build a competitive team around him. As Scott said, Towns is just an example, maybe not the best one, but the bigger point is that if Sabonis and Holiday develop and the Pacers can make some moves to stash picks, they'll be well position over the next 18-24 months to be in the trade market for a star to pair with VO. 

[BobSaccamanno]

23 minutes ago, cybergates said:

Not exactly even or slightly ahead due to the fact that half of the games are played on the road and taxed by that location/state's. Gets even more complicated since they don't play the same schedule (more games vs. ORL helps MIA, more games vs. NY teams hurts PHI), but your overall is valid that the 6.5% difference is pretty dramatically reduced living in FL. I threw it together quickly on a SS and found that the tax rate would have to be 97% in the road games with the same schedule for it to break even.

PHI	Tax %	Tax	MIA	Tax %	Tax
19.00	10.00%	1.90	17.75	10.00%	1.78
19.00	6.80%	1.29	17.75	0.00%	-
38.00		3.19	35.50		1.78
	After tax	34.81			33.73
	Dif	1.08
PHI	Tax %	Tax	MIA	Tax %	Tax
19.00	97.00%	18.43	17.75	97.00%	17.22
19.00	6.80%	1.29	17.75	0.00%	-
38.00		19.72	35.50		17.22
	After tax	18.28			18.28
	Dif	(0.00)

 

Interesting.  I’m hardly an accounting person, but it seems like a nightmare for a pro athlete to file state income in 20 plus states?  That seems like something fixable.  Sure you play for Indiana and half your games take place in another state.  But you still are employed in Indiana.  It’d be like an Indy lawyer on a litigation and he takes a deposition in Delaware.  He is still employed in Indiana. His employer is in Indiana.  

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, there's no way they're trading him anytime soon, but as his rookie extension approaches about 2 years left Minnesota will be in the same situation New Orleans was with Davis, unless they can build a competitive team around him. As Scott said, Towns is just an example, maybe not the best one, but the bigger point is that if Sabonis and Holiday develop and the Pacers can make some moves to stash picks, they'll be well position over the next 18-24 months to be in the trade market for a star to pair with VO. 

I hope we keep Sab and trade Turner. 

[dwtaylor1055]

If Sabonis plus something else(McDermott and a 2nd rd pick) can net you something similar to a guy like Aaron Gordon then I say do it all damn day.  You improve by getting a starting PF that can guard the perimeter, put the ball on the floor, shoot, score and be aggressive, now of course this comes with the assumption that say Goga really turns heads this season assuming he gets decent minutes.  If Goga plays solid his rookie year, I am ALL for finding that starting PF.   A lineup something similar to Brogdon/Victor/Warren/Aaron Gordon/Turner would be really fun and really good. Add in Holiday/Lamb/Leaf/Goga off the bench and mix n match some starters with them that's a very well rounded yet very good team

Edited July 3, 2019 by dwtaylor1055

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

With dealing a 1st to the Bucks to seal the deal in terms of getting Brogdon to Indy, I really do not see the Pacers trading another future 1st rd pick in the near future unless they acquire a 1st somehow.  They have yet to release what year the draft picks we sent to the Bucks will be. 

It came out yesterday that the 1st round pick is lottery protected from 2020-2025 so I guess if the Pacers make the playoffs it will be next years 1st round pick.

[NotIThatLives]

12 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

With dealing a 1st to the Bucks to seal the deal in terms of getting Brogdon to Indy, I really do not see the Pacers trading another future 1st rd pick in the near future unless they acquire a 1st somehow.  They have yet to release what year the draft picks we sent to the Bucks will be. 

Actually they said Lottery protected until like 25 or 26 and then after that it's unprotected

[NotIThatLives]

My post went widely ignored yesterday. If holiday is a future All-Star why does he get a 75% minutes reduction in a playoff series we knew we were losing? he played 4.3 minutes. it's ridiculous

[dwtaylor1055]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

It came out yesterday that the 1st round pick is lottery protected from 2020-2025 so I guess if the Pacers make the playoffs it will be next years 1st round pick.

 

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Actually they said Lottery protected until like 25 or 26 and then after that it's unprotected

So say we make playoffs for next 5 years and end up with picks 18-23, no guarantee you get something good there.  Can always buy a draft pick later in 1st rd if pacers really like someone

[dwtaylor1055]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

My post went widely ignored yesterday. If holiday is a future All-Star why does he get a 75% minutes reduction in a playoff series we knew we were losing? he played 4.3 minutes. it's ridiculous

who knows, not sure why.  My guess is he was buried behind collison, cojo, evans and coach felt those three gave him a better opportunity to win.  Nate IMO is on the hot seat this year if they don't put points on the board, two years tops if Nate continues to struggle with scoring points.  Yes should Aaron of played you bet your rear end.  My guess is Pacers are regretting it now.  Shoulda coulda woulda

Edited July 3, 2019 by dwtaylor1055

[NotIThatLives]

2 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

 

So say we make playoffs for next 5 years and end up with picks 18-23, no guarantee you get something good there.  Can always buy a draft pick later in 1st rd if pacers really like someone

Yes we definitely won this trade. The Pacers aren't looking like a lottery team for a while. 

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

who knows, not sure why.  My guess is he was buried behind collison, cojo, evans.  Yes should he of played you bet your rear end.  My guess is Pacers are regretting it now.  Shoulda coulda woulda

That or all this hype they were talking about wouldn't trade him for nothing, he's going to be a future All-Star is just that hype. Trying to drive up a trade market for him that doesn't exist. 

[NotIThatLives]

I get it that Brogdon is versatile but to go and spend all that money for a comboish point guard when you have your supposed All-Star point guard in waiting.  I'm definitely in believe it when I see it mode.

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I get it that Brogdon is versatile but to go and spend all that money for a comboish point guard when you have your supposed All-Star point guard in waiting.  I'm definitely in believe it when I see it mode.

Who said he'll be an all star? I still cannot believe you would quit on a team mid season. Not really how you should operate a competitive sports team. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by btownqb

[btownqb]

11 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

My post went widely ignored yesterday. If holiday is a future All-Star why does he get a 75% minutes reduction in a playoff series we knew we were losing? he played 4.3 minutes. it's ridiculous

It really not that big of a deal.. I don't know why you can't get past that. 

[NotIThatLives]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Who said he'll be an all star? I still cannot believe you would quit on a team mid season. Not really how you should operate a competitive sports team. 

The Pacers somebody said he'll be a future All-Star not sure who it's been repeated many many times now on local radio

[IU Scott]

12 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

My post went widely ignored yesterday. If holiday is a future All-Star why does he get a 75% minutes reduction in a playoff series we knew we were losing? he played 4.3 minutes. it's ridiculous

Because last year he was not ready and I have  seen very few who really think he will be an all star caliber player.  Most playoff teams does not play rookies during the playoffs if they don't need to and this year the Pacers did not need him to play.

[cybergates]

15 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Interesting.  I’m hardly an accounting person, but it seems like a nightmare for a pro athlete to file state income in 20 plus states?  That seems like something fixable.  Sure you play for Indiana and half your games take place in another state.  But you still are employed in Indiana.  It’d be like an Indy lawyer on a litigation and he takes a deposition in Delaware.  He is still employed in Indiana. His employer is in Indiana.  

It is a nightmare, but given that states operate with their own rules that's the way it currently is.

Regarding your lawyer example, I'm not sure, but as a CPA in Indiana, when I worked for EY in the Indianapolis office, but spent time (sometimes up to 3 weeks working the NYC office), EY withheld taxes for NY and I had to file a return there. Not making anywhere close to NBA $ either so you can imagine how much the states want their piece of that action. Applies to musicians as well, so wherever they perform they would pay taxes.

To take it one step further before I drop it and/or put most people to sleep, if you invest in an investment partnership, where the income generated from that partnership comes from flows to you as the investor and could end up requirinig you to file state returns in multiple states as well. The nice/"fixable" part of that though, is there are composite returns in some states where the partnership can file a return for all the investors opting in, and then pay the taxes directly to the state for you (unfortunately usually at a higher rate). 

[dwtaylor1055]

28 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

The Pacers somebody said he'll be a future All-Star not sure who it's been repeated many many times now on local radio

Management within the organization

[Zlinedavid]

2 hours ago, cybergates said:

Not exactly even or slightly ahead due to the fact that half of the games are played on the road and taxed by that location/state's. Gets even more complicated since they don't play the same schedule (more games vs. ORL helps MIA, more games vs. NY teams hurts PHI), but your overall is valid that the 6.5% difference is pretty dramatically reduced living in FL. I threw it together quickly on a SS and found that the tax rate would have to be 97% in the road games with the same schedule for it to break even.

They're under contract to their employer, which is presumably based in the city that the team is based in. They wouldn't be liable for out of state taxes.  I'm not sure if NBA players are considered W2 or 1099 employees, but if normal withholdings apply, they would either be withheld for the state that their employer exists in or their primary state of residence, provided that their state of residence has a reciprocal agreement with the state they are employed in.  If withholdings don't apply, then they would be taxed purely on their state of residence.

Perfect, real life example: I live in Northern Kentucky, and work in Ohio.  I spend at least two weeks (one pay period) per year working in Texas, and probably a 2 weeks worth in various other states (CT, PA, among others).  I don't owe taxes based on 4% (roughly one pay period) of my income to Texas or any other state.  I also don't have any Ohio withholdings, due to a reciprocal agreement between the two states.  The only state income taxes I pay are to Kentucky, my primary state of residence.

The one point that may be correct is on the municipality/city taxes.  100% of my state income taxes go to Kentucky, but I do have withholdings for the city of Cincinnati.  Local taxes are often based on the physical location of the job.  However, I'm not liable for those taxes on days that I'm out of the office.  So if I'm out of the office for 30 days throughout the year, I can get 10% of those taxes back.  The 3.x% to the city may only apply for days where they have home games or practices within the city. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Zlinedavid

[cybergates]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

They're under contract to their employer, which is presumably based in the city that the team is based in. They wouldn't be liable for out of state taxes.  I'm not sure if NBA players are considered W2 or 1099 employees, but if normal withholdings apply, they would either be withheld for the state that their employer exists in or their primary state of residence, provided that their state of residence has a reciprocal agreement with the state they are employed in.  If withholdings don't apply, then they would be taxed purely on their state of residence.

Perfect, real life example: I live in Northern Kentucky, and work in Ohio.  I spend at least two weeks (one pay period) per year working in Texas, and probably a 2 weeks worth in various other states (CT, PA, among others).  I don't owe taxes based on 4% (roughly one pay period) of my income to Texas or any other state.  I also don't have any Ohio withholdings, due to a reciprocal agreement between the two states.  The only state income taxes I pay are to Kentucky, my primary state of residence.

The one point that may be correct is on the municipality/city taxes.  100% of my state income taxes go to Kentucky, but I do have withholdings for the city of Cincinnati.  Local taxes are often based on the physical location of the job.  However, I'm not liable for those taxes on days that I'm out of the office.  So if I'm out of the office for 30 days throughout the year, I can get 10% of those taxes back.  The 3.x% to the city may only apply for days where they have home games or practices within the city. 

They absolutely are taxed out of state. Google Jock Tax. There are plenty of articles about it. States only go after people who make enough money in a public fashion that it is easy to track and go after. They don't how many days people like you and me work in their state/city, so they don't bother. 

As you illustrate, all states are different. I had to pay taxes/file in NY after only working there for 3 weeks max (usually 2 wks). I probably wouldn't have filed if EY didn't w/h on me and I wasn't a Tax Professional since it cost me more to file 4 separate returns than it was worth (Fed, IN, NYS, NYC). I wasn't aware of reciprocal agreements between states, so I learned something new today. It makes sense since plenty of people who live on state lines will tend to live in one state and work in another across the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_tax

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/04/18/income-taxes-for-pro-athletes-are-reminder-of-how-complicated-u-s-tax-code/#18d9a651411e

Edited July 3, 2019 by cybergates

[NotIThatLives]

3 hours ago, btownqb said:

It really not that big of a deal.. I don't know why you can't get past that. 

Well to me it's relevant to the discussion that we're having which is the legitimacy of our bench depth.  Maybe over the long-term it's not that big of a deal but we gained nothing by given Collison and Joseph minutes over him because they're not here anymore.  

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Well to me it's relevant to the discussion that we're having which is the legitimacy of our bench depth.  Maybe over the long-term it's not that big of a deal but we gained nothing by given Collison and Joseph minutes over him because they're not here anymore.  

They earned the right to play. Simple.