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Brogdon nailed the welcome press conference this morning.  Wants to make everyone around him better, Brogdon mentioned how he wanted to play for the Indiana Pacers, wanted to play for Nate, wants to make Victor, Sabonis, Myles all better and wanted to be apart of a culture that isn't about I, but about WE as a TEAM.  Brogdon stated that he wanted to sign with Indiana during free agency, so the interest was there from both sides.  Mentioned he's going to Vegas to train and workout with Victor as he had very high praise for Victor.  I cannot wait to watch these two play side by side.  Also mentioned how much he is involved in the community and plans to be involved here in Indy.

 

Pacers have engaged Sabonis and his agent about a contract extension.   

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Brogdon nailed the welcome press conference this morning.  Wants to make everyone around him better, Brogdon mentioned how he wanted to play for the Indiana Pacers, wanted to play for Nate, wants to m

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35 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Brogdon nailed the welcome press conference this morning.  Wants to make everyone around him better, Brogdon mentioned how he wanted to play for the Indiana Pacers, wanted to play for Nate, wants to make Victor, Sabonis, Myles all better and wanted to be apart of a culture that isn't about I, but about WE as a TEAM.  Brogdon stated that he wanted to sign with Indiana during free agency, so the interest was there from both sides.  Mentioned he's going to Vegas to train and workout with Victor as he had very high praise for Victor.  I cannot wait to watch these two play side by side.  Also mentioned how much he is involved in the community and plans to be involved here in Indy.

 

Pacers have engaged Sabonis and his agent about a contract extension.   

Additional notes from the press conference today with Brogdon:

  • Simon helped seal the deal with the Bucks.  Pritchard thought they had a 10% chance to get him, once Simon jumped on the phone that went up to about 90% chance to get Brogdon.
  • Brogdon was on atop the board for Pacers Free Agency plans/want list from basically when their season ended.
  • Kevin Pritchard considers the Brogdon addition as a "EPIC" day for the Indiana Pacers and a franchise
  • Brogdon deal was a last minute deal, audible as Pritchard referred to as
  • Foundation of many good players in Indy not just having two superstars
  • Brogdon was excited about how Simon went above to help get him to Indy
  • Brogdon thinks Indy has great building blocks in Vic/Sabonis/Myles
  • Brogdons agent wanted him to go to Indy when he entered the draft.  Felt this was his best location and best fit
  • Brogdon said during his workout with Pacers prior to his predraft workout that he wanted to come to Indy due to best fit
  • Nate envisioned the PG spot the most critical spot to fill in free agency this offseason
  • Nate raves about Vic and Brogdon backcourt together
  • Brogdon checks all the boxes that the Pacers expect as a player
  • Brogdon has won Rookie of the Year, Defensive Rookie of the year and ACC player of the year
  • When Nate found out Brogdon was coming to Indy, Nate yelled and screamed excitement as he exited an airplane lol(Most excited Pritchard has seen Nate since he's been here)
  • Brogdon very very big into community work, especially 3rd world countries like Africa.  Wants to move into non-profit sector after NBA 
  • Hoops 2.0 foundation which Brogdon has created to help fund less privileged
  • Brogdon looks as Indiana as the original basketball state, mentions Bob Knight and IU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Wants to help the community as much as possible
  • The draft picks were a must to get Brogdon, those extra 2nd round picks we traded for were enough to get the deal sealed
  • Pritchard views Brogdon as another foundational player to go along with Victor/Myles/Sabonis
  • Pritchard has been proud of last two years, more excited about this upcoming season than past two years
  • Nicknamed "The President"
  • Brogdon feels PG is his best position to influence decisions on the floor and lead.  Views his primary strength is high IQ and versatility
  • Vic reached out to Brogdon right after deal was completed.  Brogdon wants to help Vic be an all star every year, make him a superstar. 
  • Brogdons goal is to give the teammates for freedom and help them reach their potential
  • Once they determined they had Brogdon, it allowed them to sign Lamb. 
  • Warren trade enabled this them to deal for Brogdon.  Trickle affect for later moves(Lamb and McConnell)

 

This guy will flourish here with the Pacers.  Very excited to have him here for 4 seasons and hopefully more. 

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On Westbrook, I'm wondering more about the Knicks or Toronto, maybe the T-Wolves.

The Knicks of course blew it, again, this time in trading away their young star thinking they'd get Kyrie and/or Durant and even the #1 draft pick, and of course got none of the above. They had all kinds of cap room, but then went out and tied up over $50M on such players as Taj Gibson, Randle and Portis. Good but not make-you-competitive now players. If the Thunder wait until December, though, the Knicks could be a player for Westbrook. Not sure how they could be before December. 

Toronto could get creative -- they were trying to get involved with the Thunder and PG when the possibility of PG/Kawhi to the Clips came up. Not sure if they have realistic pieces to include for Westbrook (no way they're trading Siakim), but I wouldn't count them out.

Or maybe the Wolves with a trade including Wiggins. 

Related, the Thunder are now clearly in full re-build mode. They just traded Jerami Grant -- a key piece and an excellent developing player, to the Nuggets for a '20 first-round pick, saving tax money.

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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

From a strictly on the court discussion... do they actually compliment each other that well though? Neither can shoot at all... both below 30% from 3 last year. Now they are both insanely athletic.. idk I guess I would need more proof than to say they'd compliment each other well. 

I don't know, maybe.  Just starting a discussion.  I just feel like it has been proven that another guard or wing is not Westbrook's compliment, but maybe a paint presence that could run the floor could work.  Obviously, this all remains to be seen, but...

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Trading for Westbrook would be such a Knick's things to do. Let's trade for a star player that most other stars don't want to play with, tie up our cap space and win 44 games the next 3 years and lose in the first round every year. It would be like Carmelo deal part II.  

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^^ Exactly why the Knicks will do it. :) 

Comically, the Rockets are trying to get involved with Westbrook.

Let's see, Harden leaves Westbrook/the Thunder to make himself a (extremely ball dominant) star, Rockets are still paying CPIII, and now they want to add Westbrook to play with Harden?? Comical.

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3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Westbrook is a chemistry killer.  I see a desparate team taking him versus one that is already knocking on the door.

Put him with Jimmy Butler and they could burn down a franchise...

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I think Westbrook fits best with an elite pick n roll big and surround them with shooters. Westbrook is a Slasher. His shooting is not good. Honestly I think it would be hard to win a championship with him unless you surround him with even bigger stars and that’s hard to find. If Minnesota could put him with KAT that might work. Not many stars want to play with a ball dominant pg...I think Minnesota will lose KAT soon anyways so they should go all in and try something. I could see Knicks trying something and honestly that would make sense. They are forever away from rebuilding and they need to sell tickets...put a star there and try to find some shooting to put along side him and a pick n roll partner. I really don’t know what OKC plans to do with him...his contract is next to Paul’s worst in the NBA and yet he is a star who you want to get something for. He definitely won’t land them what George did.

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6 hours ago, rico said:

I use this "cliche" all the time...but to me Westbrook is a cancer.  Appears to me that OKC kept the wrong "star".

How did they have Serge Ibaka, Westbrook, Durant, Harden, Sefalosha, Collison, Reggie Jackson, and Derek Fisher and have basically let them all go at this point and nothing to show for it. It’s like a perfect example of how a small market can build a title contender and also how to squander one.

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59 minutes ago, dgambill said:

How did they have Serge Ibaka, Westbrook, Durant, Harden, Sefalosha, Collison, Reggie Jackson, and Derek Fisher and have basically let them all go at this point and nothing to show for it. It’s like a perfect example of how a small market can build a title contender and also how to squander one.

When Harden left he wasn’t the star he later became, he was largely in Westbrook’s shadow and OKC couldn’t then afford to pay him what he wanted while paying Westbrook and Durant. 

When Durant left - running away to the GS team that beat him after choking away the lead in the WC Finals - there was nothing OKC could do. That was Durant. In fairness to him maybe he saw he couldn’t win with Westbrook — but that was immediately after they were up 3-1 in the WC finals. 

OKC then got PG through the trade with the Pacers and convinced him to opt in the next year - and refuse to even meet with LBJ and the Lakers despite that PG wanted to return home to LA and everyone thought he would. 

PG just left after being recruited by Kawhi and the Clips - returning home to LA - after another first- round exit with Westbrook taking all those bad shots - and a salary - tax situation in which OKC was strapped and couldn’t get better. 

Meanwhile Roberson - one of the best wing defenders in the game and key to OKC - just lost all of last season. 

Not saying OKC didn’t make mistakes and is blameless, but looking at it objectively, things happen and there’s only so far you can go into the tax penalty and only so many chances you get, and you know, it’s Oklahoma City 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

When Harden left he wasn’t the star he later became, he was largely in Westbrook’s shadow and OKC couldn’t then afford to pay him what he wanted while paying Westbrook and Durant. 

When Durant left - running away to the GS team that beat him after choking away the lead in the WC Finals - there was nothing OKC could do. That was Durant. In fairness to him maybe he saw he couldn’t win with Westbrook — but that was immediately after they were up 3-1 in the WC finals. 

OKC then got PG through the trade with the Pacers and convinced him to opt in the next year - and refuse to even meet with LBJ and the Lakers despite that PG wanted to return home to LA and everyone thought he would. 

PG just left after being recruited by Kawhi and the Clips - returning home to LA - after another first- round exit with Westbrook taking all those bad shots - and a salary - tax situation in which OKC was strapped and couldn’t get better. 

Meanwhile Roberson - one of the best wing defenders in the game and key to OKC - just lost all of last season. 

Not saying OKC didn’t make mistakes and is blameless, but looking at it objectively, things happen and there’s only so far you can go into the tax penalty and only so many chances you get, and you know, it’s Oklahoma City 

Ummm, Harden didn't leave OKC...they traded him.  The Thunder obviously screwed the pooch on that one.

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9 hours ago, rico said:

Ummm, Harden didn't leave OKC...they traded him.  The Thunder obviously screwed the pooch on that one.

I'd have to go back and review specifics Rico but you're oversimplifying things. What I know --

They couldn't reach agreement with him on a contract extension -- he wanted a full max deal, they couldn't do that because they had to pay Westbrook and Durant -- this is Oklahoma City, not the Lakers. Btw, they offered him, after just his third year, $55 Million over 4 years, but he wanted more. The Rockets gave him the max deal. Harden was coming off 6th man of the year, but  again was just a three-year player. "Screwed the pooch" assumes a great deal, like they should've known he would turn into League MVP, that they could have paid him along with Westbrook and Durant another $4.5 M a year. The "Umm" doesn't really apply here.

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1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I'd have to go back and review specifics Rico but you're oversimplifying things. What I know --

They couldn't reach agreement with him on a contract extension -- he wanted a full max deal, they couldn't do that because they had to pay Westbrook and Durant -- this is Oklahoma City, not the Lakers. Btw, they offered him, after just his third year, $55 Million over 4 years, but he wanted more. The Rockets gave him the max deal. Harden was coming off 6th man of the year, but  again was just a three-year player. "Screwed the pooch" assumes a great deal, like they should've known he would turn into League MVP, that they could have paid him along with Westbrook and Durant another $4.5 M a year. The "Umm" doesn't really apply here.

"Umm" applies to what I am thinking.  OKC had 3 superstars.  They got rid of the wrong one.  Hmmmmmmm.

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Pulled up a story on the trade for specifics, Harden had just come off averaging 16.8 points and 3.7 assists. That doesn't scream max player -- and absolutely is not a "Super Star". It's easy to look back with hindsight. Also, they brought in K Martin, who was coming off averaging 17.1 and 2.8, along with Jeremy Lamb (12th pick in draft). That was after they tried to get Harden to commit to the $55M, but he wanted the max deal.

"We wanted to sign James to an extension, but at the end of the day, these situations have to work for all those involved. Our ownership group again showed their commitment to the organization with several significant offers," Thunder general manager Sam Presti said in a statement.

"We were unable to reach a mutual agreement, and therefore executed a trade that capitalized on the opportunity to bring in a player of Kevin's caliber, a young talent like Jeremy and draft picks, which will be important to our organizational goal of a sustainable team."

The small-market Thunder had already signed Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka to long-term deals, and apparently realized Harden was going to want a bigger salary than they would offer.

Btw the Rockets traded Kyle Lowry to Toronto for a first round pick, you know, the guy who just won a championship with Toronto.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/8562868/oklahoma-city-thunder-trade-james-harden-houston-rockets

Hmmmm. Lol. 

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5 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Pulled up a story on the trade for specifics, Harden had just come off averaging 16.8 points and 3.7 assists. That doesn't scream max player -- and absolutely is not a "Super Star". It's easy to look back with hindsight. Also, they brought in K Martin, who was coming off averaging 17.1 and 2.8, along with Jeremy Lamb (12th pick in draft). That was after they tried to get Harden to commit to the $55M, but he wanted the max deal.

"We wanted to sign James to an extension, but at the end of the day, these situations have to work for all those involved. Our ownership group again showed their commitment to the organization with several significant offers," Thunder general manager Sam Presti said in a statement.

"We were unable to reach a mutual agreement, and therefore executed a trade that capitalized on the opportunity to bring in a player of Kevin's caliber, a young talent like Jeremy and draft picks, which will be important to our organizational goal of a sustainable team."

The small-market Thunder had already signed Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka to long-term deals, and apparently realized Harden was going to want a bigger salary than they would offer.

Btw the Rockets traded Kyle Lowry to Toronto for a first round pick, you know, the guy who just won a championship with Toronto.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/8562868/oklahoma-city-thunder-trade-james-harden-houston-rockets

Hmmmm. Lol. 

If anybody should have known what Harden was capable of it was OKC. They had him of course it’s their fault. They should have moved Ibaka and other expensive pieces and built around the 3 stars with vet minimums etc. That is why I hare people saying oh we have to trade Myles or Sabonis. You keep your stars when you are small market and build around them. Too hard to acquire them. This was before the time of guys forcing their way out. Worst case scenario is you move Westbrook...they just didn’t have the vision that say GSW had...who held on to their shooters no matter what. GS had to pay the same tax that OKC has...they just got more bang for their buck and spent wisely. OKC was signing guys like Ibaka and Adams to huge contracts instead of putting that money to winning basketball. Everyone could see Harden was special...certainly Houston could. He was being misused as a 6th man because Westbrook was so ball dominant. Rico probably would even say keep the shooter playmaker in Harden and move Westbrook and he would be right....because even Durant had issues with Westbrook leading to him moving on and now so did Paul George. Stars think they want to play with him...then they realize the ball doesn’t move in OKC. Westbrook is the problem.

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4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If anybody should have known what Harden was capable of it was OKC. They had him of course it’s their fault. They should have moved Ibaka and other expensive pieces and built around the 3 stars with vet minimums etc. That is why I hare people saying oh we have to trade Myles or Sabonis. You keep your stars when you are small market and build around them. Too hard to acquire them. This was before the time of guys forcing their way out. Worst case scenario is you move Westbrook...they just didn’t have the vision that say GSW had...who held on to their shooters no matter what. GS had to pay the same tax that OKC has...they just got more bang for their buck and spent wisely. OKC was signing guys like Ibaka and Adams to huge contracts instead of putting that money to winning basketball. Everyone could see Harden was special...certainly Houston could. He was being misused as a 6th man because Westbrook was so ball dominant. Rico probably would even say keep the shooter playmaker in Harden and move Westbrook and he would be right....because even Durant had issues with Westbrook leading to him moving on and now so did Paul George. Stars think they want to play with him...then they realize the ball doesn’t move in OKC. Westbrook is the problem.

Thank you.  And spot on.

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35 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If anybody should have known what Harden was capable of it was OKC. They had him of course it’s their fault. They should have moved Ibaka and other expensive pieces and built around the 3 stars with vet minimums etc. That is why I hare people saying oh we have to trade Myles or Sabonis. You keep your stars when you are small market and build around them. Too hard to acquire them. This was before the time of guys forcing their way out. Worst case scenario is you move Westbrook...they just didn’t have the vision that say GSW had...who held on to their shooters no matter what. GS had to pay the same tax that OKC has...they just got more bang for their buck and spent wisely. OKC was signing guys like Ibaka and Adams to huge contracts instead of putting that money to winning basketball. Everyone could see Harden was special...certainly Houston could. He was being misused as a 6th man because Westbrook was so ball dominant. Rico probably would even say keep the shooter playmaker in Harden and move Westbrook and he would be right....because even Durant had issues with Westbrook leading to him moving on and now so did Paul George. Stars think they want to play with him...then they realize the ball doesn’t move in OKC. Westbrook is the problem.

Again, it was his third season, he was averaging under 17 PPG, and they had to pay Westbrook, Durant and Ibaka. It's their fault?? OK. Absolutely no reason in the world they should have moved Westbrook then. 

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11 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Again, it was his third season, he was averaging under 17 PPG, and they had to pay Westbrook, Durant and Ibaka. It's their fault?? OK. Absolutely no reason in the world they should have moved Westbrook then. 

You're not completely wrong here by any means, but I gotta go with Rico and dgambill on this one. Nobody thought Harden was going to be an MVP level player, but even at that time many thought he had a chance to be an all-star caliber player, and OKC did too. The only real reason his scoring was under 17 PPG was because he wasn't getting the time/touches behind Durant and Westbrook, and they didn't really try to play them all together very much. OKC went with bringing Harden off the bench so he could 'run' the second team, but everyone knew at the time that Harden was a stud. 

OKC was hamstrung by the Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka contracts, and they chose balance (Ibaka being a forward) and trade market (Harden fetching more on the market compared to Ibaka) over keeping the three best players and just figuring the rest out later. 

I'm not sure it was a terrible move though. While the super team thing is hot right now, there hasn't been a ton of success with that model when you have three extremely ball dominant guys (Durant, Westbrook and Harden) together. I don't really see how those three could have coexisted long term. You could argue they should have traded Westbrook maybe. 

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52 minutes ago, BGleas said:

You're not completely wrong here by any means, but I gotta go with Rico and dgambill on this one. Nobody thought Harden was going to be an MVP level player, but even at that time many thought he had a chance to be an all-star caliber player, and OKC did too. The only real reason his scoring was under 17 PPG was because he wasn't getting the time/touches behind Durant and Westbrook, and they didn't really try to play them all together very much. OKC went with bringing Harden off the bench so he could 'run' the second team, but everyone knew at the time that Harden was a stud. 

OKC was hamstrung by the Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka contracts, and they chose balance (Ibaka being a forward) and trade market (Harden fetching more on the market compared to Ibaka) over keeping the three best players and just figuring the rest out later. 

I'm not sure it was a terrible move though. While the super team thing is hot right now, there hasn't been a ton of success with that model when you have three extremely ball dominant guys (Durant, Westbrook and Harden) together. I don't really see how those three could have coexisted long term. You could argue they should have traded Westbrook maybe. 

I don't think we're really in disagreement here? This is hindsight.

It was pretty clear Harden was a stud, but, a third-year player coming off under 17 PPG, by no means clear he'd be a future League MVP. The real point I made above though was that -- right -- OKC was hamstrung by having to pay Westbrook (who there was absolutely no reason to say OKC "should have" traded at that point) and Durant and Ibaka (who also was a stud at that time) and they offered Harden $50M over 4 years. The post I responded to stated OKC "squandered" a title contender. Come on now. The next one was that OKC should have known what Harden was capable of and they should have moved Westbrook. Come on again. Pure hindsight and of course Westbrook and Durant had GS down 3-1 and choked, then Durant bolted. 

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8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't think we're really in disagreement here? This is hindsight.

It was pretty clear Harden was a stud, but, a third-year player coming off under 17 PPG, by no means clear he'd be a future League MVP. The real point I made above though was that -- right -- OKC was hamstrung by having to pay Westbrook (who there was absolutely no reason to say OKC "should have" traded at that point) and Durant and Ibaka (who also was a stud at that time) and they offered Harden $50M over 4 years. The post I responded to stated OKC "squandered" a title contender. Come on now. The next one was that OKC should have known what Harden was capable of and they should have moved Westbrook. Come on again. Pure hindsight and of course Westbrook and Durant had GS down 3-1 and choked, then Durant bolted. 

We're not really in much disagreement, though I don't agree that what people are saying is all hindsight. 

People didn't think Harden was going to be a future MVP, I said that exact thing in my post, but he was projected at that time as a potential future all-star. It was commonly held belief even at that time that Harden was going to be a star and that the system (coming off the bench to play behind Durant and Westbrook) was holding him back. The view on Harden at the time was that almost anywhere else he'd be a featured player, not just a solid 17 ppg player Sixth Man. That's why he was commanding the max as a bench player, and while OKC did offer him $52M, other teams were already lining up to offer him the max. 

OKC basically had to pick three of Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden, and they chose the first three. Again, maybe not the wrong move given that Durant, Westbrook and Harden all need the ball and there's only so much to go around, but I do wonder if the Thunder were in the same situation today (in the super team era) if they maybe choose to try and move Ibaka and another contract and just roll the dice with the three stars. 

 

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