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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

It was pretty clear he did not mesh well with LeBron, though it seems they didn't really give him a chance. I feel bad for IT, he was fantastic for Boston, though he did bring some of this on himself. Maybe understandably given his success, but it started with his comments last offseason about Boston "backing up the Brinks truck" for him, and then just this week he called out the Cavs coaches, and has also been really outspoken about the Cavs chemistry issues.  

While you have to respect the player he's turned himself into, there aren't a lot of teams that want to lineup to give a 29/30 year old, 5'9" (being generous) scoring point guard that is literally the worst defensive player in the NBA, a max contract. It's just a shame that he felt he had a home in Boston, and in just a matter of months he's back to being a journeyman. 

Meanwhile, while I don't hate it as a Celtics fan, it's a shame that LeBron is literally holding the entire Cavs organization hostage. There is nothing they can do about it, as LeBron won't commit to them and also won't waive his no trade clause. It's all within his rights of course, but it's pretty bush league IMO. 

Yes I can see all of that re IT, and yes, I feel bad for him. He was a stud last season, maybe it's still unclear what the long term outlook is on his injury.

Cavs have been trading like crazy today, now they have George Hill and Rodney Hood, while trading Wade (back to Heat), Shumpert, and Crowder (another high level player who is getting shipped around), and Rose (to Utah). 

Cavs are probably a decent bit better now. Hill (if he stays healthy) adds both very good D to go with excellent outside shooting, and another ball handler, and Hood can score. 

So looks like LeBron holding the Cavs' organization to the fire forced them to get better, fwiw. Whether it's good enough, I don't know. That's a lot of change to accommodate at this point in the season, but the Cavs were really struggling, obviously, and especially on D. 

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1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes I can see all of that re IT, and yes, I feel bad for him. He was a stud last season, maybe it's still unclear what the long term outlook is on his injury.

Cavs have been trading like crazy today, now they have George Hill and Rodney Hood, while trading Wade (back to Heat), Shumpert, and Crowder (another high level player who is getting shipped around), and Rose (to Utah). 

Cavs are probably a decent bit better now. Hill (if he stays healthy) adds both very good D to go with excellent outside shooting, and another ball handler, and Hood can score. 

So looks like LeBron holding the Cavs' organization to the fire forced them to get better, fwiw. Whether it's good enough, I don't know. That's a lot of change to accommodate at this point in the season, but the Cavs were really struggling, obviously, and especially on D. 

I actually think the Cavs did about as well as they could today. Seemed like a long shot, but I think they managed to get better today, but also get younger and more athletic for a post-LeBron future. IMO, Clarkson, Nance, Hill and Hood are a better fit for Cleveland/LeBron than the guys they shipped out. I love IT and Crowder, but Crowder had struggled this year for whatever reason, and IT is too injured and too much of a defensive liability. 

Hill is certainly a drop-off from IT offensivelty, but he puts a shooter alongside LeBron and as you mentioned he's a much better defensive player than IT. Clarkson can straight get buckets, and Hood and Nance are promising young, athletic players. That's also a decent (not great or anything like Boston, Philly or Milwaukee) core along with the Brooklyn pick and Cleveland's own 1st rounder to begin rebuilding when LeBron leaves. 

I'd say Boston and Toronto are now the clear favorites, but I do like what Cleveland did here. 

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10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I actually think the Cavs did about as well as they could today. Seemed like a long shot, but I think they managed to get better today, but also get younger and more athletic for a post-LeBron future. IMO, Clarkson, Nance, Hill and Hood are a better fit for Cleveland/LeBron than the guys they shipped out. I love IT and Crowder, but Crowder had struggled this year for whatever reason, and IT is too injured and too much of a defensive liability. 

Hill is certainly a drop-off from IT offensivelty, but he puts a shooter alongside LeBron and as you mentioned he's a much better defensive player than IT. Clarkson can straight get buckets, and Hood and Nance are promising young, athletic players. That's also a decent (not great or anything like Boston, Philly or Milwaukee) core along with the Brooklyn pick and Cleveland's own 1st rounder to begin rebuilding when LeBron leaves. 

I'd say Boston and Toronto are now the clear favorites, but I do like what Cleveland did here. 

Totally agree with everything you said.  Seems pretty clear LeBron is gonna be getting out of Cleveland as fast as possible after they lose in the playoffs.  Question is, where does he go?  I don’t really see many situations that are going to allow him to compete for a title.  Maybe Houston, San Antonio, Philly?

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7 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Totally agree with everything you said.  Seems pretty clear LeBron is gonna be getting out of Cleveland as fast as possible after they lose in the playoffs.  Question is, where does he go?  I don’t really see many situations that are going to allow him to compete for a title.  Maybe Houston, San Antonio, Philly?

Philly would be my guess

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17 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Totally agree with everything you said.  Seems pretty clear LeBron is gonna be getting out of Cleveland as fast as possible after they lose in the playoffs.  Question is, where does he go?  I don’t really see many situations that are going to allow him to compete for a title.  Maybe Houston, San Antonio, Philly?

I think Houston and SA will make big pushes. LeBron and Paul are close as we all know, and Daryl Morey is a GM that is creative enough to find a way to make it happen. I wouldn't discount SA either, which could be a better fit than Houston, just because Kawai doesn't have to have the ball all the time and while he's supremely talented, would probably be more open to playing second fiddle than Harden. There's probably a team that will come out of nowhere and content as well. Don't discount Miami?

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18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think Houston and SA will make big pushes. LeBron and Paul are close as we all know, and Daryl Morey is a GM that is creative enough to find a way to make it happen. I wouldn't discount SA either, which could be a better fit than Houston, just because Kawai doesn't have to have the ball all the time and while he's supremely talented, would probably be more open to playing second fiddle than Harden. There's probably a team that will come out of nowhere and content as well. Don't discount Miami?

But is Miami really a championship contender with Lebron?  I don’t see it.  Washington would be interesting. 

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Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

But is Miami really a championship contender with Lebron?  I don’t see it.  Washington would be interesting. 

Washington won't have the cap space. They're tied up into Wall, Beal and Porter. Miami isn't a title contender right now, but Riley can be a magician at times, you never know.

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1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Totally agree with everything you said.  Seems pretty clear LeBron is gonna be getting out of Cleveland as fast as possible after they lose in the playoffs.  Question is, where does he go?  I don’t really see many situations that are going to allow him to compete for a title.  Maybe Houston, San Antonio, Philly?

My bet is the Spurs. He loves Pop, the Spurs were already looking at trading Green today, and a LeBron/Kawhi team will compete.

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3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

My bet is the Spurs. He loves Pop, the Spurs were already looking at trading Green today, and a LeBron/Kawhi team will compete.

Add to it, I think LeBron has always wanted to play for a really great coach. I think playing for Pop would really appeal to LeBron. Spoelstra is good, but was really young in his career when LeBron was there. I think LeBron sometimes envy's that Jordan and Kobe had a guy like Phil and he's had Silas, Brown, Blatt and Lue. 

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28 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Add to it, I think LeBron has always wanted to play for a really great coach. I think playing for Pop would really appeal to LeBron. Spoelstra is good, but was really young in his career when LeBron was there. I think LeBron sometimes envy's that Jordan and Kobe had a guy like Phil and he's had Silas, Brown, Blatt and Lue. 

But would Pop want to put up with LeBron’s primadonna act?  Doesn’t really seem like his personality would mesh very well with the Spurs’ culture.  And I’m not sure a great player like Kawhi (about whom there’s already been rumblings of a disconnect) would be all that thrilled to play second fiddle to LeBron.  As great as he is, I feel like the way things have unraveled in Cleveland make him seem like a pretty toxic teammate, and he doesn’t have many more years of playing at a peak level left.  Kyrie looks like a total genius for getting out from under his shadow now. 

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5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

But would Pop want to put up with LeBron’s primadonna act?  Doesn’t really seem like his personality would mesh very well with the Spurs’ culture.  And I’m not sure a great player like Kawhi (about whom there’s already been rumblings of a disconnect) would be all that thrilled to play second fiddle to LeBron.  As great as he is, I feel like the way things have unraveled in Cleveland make him seem like a pretty toxic teammate, and he doesn’t have many more years of playing at a peak level left.  Kyrie looks like a total genius for getting out from under his shadow now. 

I think Pop would take him in a heartbeat, but agree about the Kawai factor you never know how he would receive it. Since he's already been to two Finals and obviously won one with the Duncan/Parker crew, he may be in the phase of his career where he's more concerned with proving he can be "the man" than actually winning titles. Not sure how that fly's in SA though. 

On LeBron in generally, I think he comes off terrible in how he's treated Cleveland. I know they're supposed to be forever grateful that he delivered a title, but he's really jerked that franchise around for most of his career. In his defense, they surrounded him with crap his first tenure there, but this time they've done almost everything he's asked and that fact that he won't commit or waive his trade clause if he is planning on leaving, has completely handcuffed them. 

I also have to due my homer routine and give a shout-out to Ainge and Stevens. I mean, Ainge took a 50+ win team that won the East (regular season) last year and traded 3 of it's starters (Bradley, IT, Crowder) and made the team better. The 3 starters he traded have now all, within 7 months, been traded again by the teams Boston traded them too. The Kyrie trade was brilliant. IT was damaged goods, Brown/Taytum are better than Crowder, and the Brooklyn pick is going to be worse than the pick Ainge got from trading Fultz (who is mysteriously not playing) for Taytum. 

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I don't know, Gilbert is an idiot, and he and LeBron have not been on good terms for a bit now, while the Cavs have largely failed to put a good team around LeBron, this year, while he took them and every other team he's played on for multiple years now to the Finals. And yes, he brought the Cavs their championship, which is as much as any Clevelander could ask for.  I'm not trying to come off like a big LeBron fan, but he's pretty deserving and Dan Gilbert is a nimrod. Just look at how this season started, the 'front office' moves he makes are moronic.

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16 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't know, Gilbert is an idiot, and he and LeBron have not been on good terms for a bit now, while the Cavs have largely failed to put a good team around LeBron, this year, while he took them and every other team he's played on for multiple years now to the Finals. And yes, he brought the Cavs their championship, which is as much as any Clevelander could ask for.  I'm not trying to come off like a big LeBron fan, but he's pretty deserving and Dan Gilbert is a nimrod. Just look at how this season started, the 'front office' moves he makes are moronic.

LeBron is basically the GM of that team.  He’s the one essentially forcing them to leverage their future by signing a bunch of aging vets to ridiculous contracts so they can “win now,” while giving them no assurances about what he’s doing beyond the current season.  If he had committed to the franchise beyond this season, they likely would have kept Kyrie.  I don’t really think a player is obligated to be loyal to a franchise, but like BGleas said, he’s pretty much held the Cavs hostage.  He has no one to blame but himself for how that roster is currently constructed.

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3 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

LeBron is basically the GM of that team.  He’s the one essentially forcing them to leverage their future by signing a bunch of aging vets to ridiculous contracts so they can “win now,” while giving them no assurances about what he’s doing beyond the current season.  If he had committed to the franchise beyond this season, they likely would have kept Kyrie.  I don’t really think a player is obligated to be loyal to a franchise, but like BGleas said, he’s pretty much held the Cavs hostage.  He has no one to blame but himself for how that roster is currently constructed.

Kyrie wanted out at the beginning of the summer and it had nothing to do with LeBron committing -- he wanted away from LeBron so he could pave his own path. And why do you think LeBron constructed that team? He has been fighting with Gilbert for a while now, including about Gilbert's failure to make good moves -- and then who did Gilbert fire earlier this year, and why, and how did that go over with the players, or for that matter everyone in the NBA? I don't think you're really following the Cavs. 

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1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Kyrie wanted out at the beginning of the summer and it had nothing to do with LeBron committing -- he wanted away from LeBron so he could pave his own path. And why do you think LeBron constructed that team? He has been fighting with Gilbert for a while now, including about Gilbert's failure to make good moves -- and then who did Gilbert fire earlier this year, and why, and how did that go over with the players, or for that matter everyone in the NBA? I don't think you're really following the Cavs. 

Gilbert holds a huge amount of blame as well, no doubt. He’s never given a second contract to any GM the Cavs have had since he owned the team. LeBron holds a huge amount of blame as well for never truely committing back to Cleveland, he basically been on a 1-year deal for four years, and he holds some blame for how the Kyrie relationship detoriated. 

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24 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Gilbert holds a huge amount of blame as well, no doubt. He’s never given a second contract to any GM the Cavs have had since he owned the team. LeBron holds a huge amount of blame as well for never truely committing back to Cleveland, he basically been on a 1-year deal for four years, and he holds some blame for how the Kyrie relationship detoriated. 

That's fair, no doubt. It's true that LeBron has been holding Cleveland hostage, but then again with Gilbert, maybe he should. Still, there are those stories about how he brings his guys on the plane, etc. and how Kyrie didn't like that -- his teams are very much about him, and as great a player as he is, and as well as he sees the game, maybe the all-about-LeBron thing is catching up with him. Anyway, will be interesting to see if all these moves (I've never seen a team make this many trade-deadline moves) can work this deep into the season. Some "experts" see Cleveland as the team to beat now in the East, others see Cleveland as a big question mark on chemistry and fit, should make for an interesting next couple of months.

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