NBA Thread

[DC2345]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes I understand. I'm not generally big on hiring first-time player coaches. Jackson may or may not get along with the P's front office, and again my understanding is it had something to do with his religious fervor, that was reported loosely at some point. Beyond that I'm not sure. First time player coaches sometimes work and sometimes don't, e.g., Jason Kidd, etc. The P's are whiffing lately on coaches, going with a completely unproven guy at this point is not my first choice.

This time arounf gives me more hope since they are actually doing a real coaching search. They aren't just hiring someone because it's convenient. 

[KoB2011]

41 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

So now it's the better team based on one game that they won in double OT with all kinds of questionable calls?? How are they the better team after getting demolished in Game 5? How is Game 5, and the full series, irrelevant?? Who the better team is, is clearly a subjective assessment. I can't say the C's ARE the better team, but that's how I see it. Game 7 will decide it, and that's  how it should be.

I thought they were the better team in yesterdays game, that was all I said. I didn't say they are the better team in every game the two teams have played. I didn't make a comment about who has been better in the series or who I think will win Game 7.

On those issues, though, I think the Celtics have been the better team overall in the series, but I actually like the Raptors in Game 7. 

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

There were some pretty bad calls both ways down the stretch of the Celts - Raptors game. I felt like the better team won at the end, though. 

Game 7 should be great.

I can agree that the Raptors looked/played better last night. They really did. But, I don't agree that it was a "bad calls both ways" situation down the stretch. I listed 5 to 6 clearly awful calls all within the last minute of regulation or in OT that if just one goes the right way the Celtics are in the ECF already. 

Kemba clearly got fouled on the Celtics last possession in regulation. That alone ends the game. 

[BGleas]

3 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Marcus Smart's flop earlier in the series was way worse. 

As HH said, there's a clear difference between a player flopping and a coach purposely interfering with a play, especially a play with 50 seconds left in a tied game. 

On the flopping, I can't disagree with you on Smart. Even as a Celtics fan, I know and understand Smart flops. With that said, the flopping and flailing that Kyle Lowery does out there makes Smart blush. Lowery could teach LeBron a class on flopping, its ridiculous. 

 

[KoB2011]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I can agree that the Raptors looked/played better last night. They really did. But, I don't agree that it was a "bad calls both ways" situation down the stretch. I listed 5 to 6 clearly awful calls all within the last minute of regulation or in OT that if just one goes the right way the Celtics are in the ECF already. 

Kemba clearly got fouled on the Celtics last possession in regulation. That alone ends the game. 

And they called the foul on OG on the floor, I actually thought the overturn of the Theis call was correct and I thought if anything on the last play Smart fouled Gasol, but it was probably a good no-call. Smart also blatantly traveled before his last shot.

I'm not saying the calls were 1:1 in terms of bad calls, just that there were plenty both ways. It'll be interested to see the two-minute report. 

[TheWatShot]

The Nurse incident reminds me of when Bruce Weber was at Illinois and we always complained about how he was Illinois's 6th man on defense. 

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Geesh it's like you're disagreeing with me on everything I post lately, lol.

 

Make better posts 🤷‍♂️

 

But in all seriousness, I only disagreed with you the other day because you made a follow up post asking for people to weigh in. 

[ATX_sig]

3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't think the better team won. Toronto played a terrific game, but imo Boston is the better team. They dominated Game 5 and Toronto came back and beat them in Game 6 in double OT. Game 7 will decide who is better, and that's what it's all about, gotta love the level both teams have played at.

Toronto was reallly looking good when COVID shutdown hit.  Before the playoffs started, I had picked Toronto in the East.  Since bubble started I've felt Boston has looked slightly better.  It is certainly a toss up game.  Really like how OG is playing.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, ATX_sig said:

Toronto was reallly looking good when COVID shutdown hit.  Before the playoffs started, I had picked Toronto in the East.  Since bubble started I've felt Boston has looked slightly better.  It is certainly a toss up game.  Really like how OG is playing.  

Absolutely agree, and I don't mean to discount Toronto. Said earlier I expected this to be a long and hard fought series. Toronto is extremely good. I think Boston gets the nod -- I think they win Game 7, but it came down to a best of 3 games and right now it's split, a Toronto win wouldn't shock me, at all.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Make better posts 🤷‍♂️

 

But in all seriousness, I only disagreed with you the other day because you made a follow up post asking for people to weigh in. 

I was just messing with you -- disagree with me whenever and however you want man!

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

The Nurse incident reminds me of when Bruce Weber was at Illinois and we always complained about how he was Illinois's 6th man on defense. 

Somehow forgot about that knucklehead. Ah the days of Weber....

[KoB2011]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I was just messing with you -- disagree with me whenever and however you want man!

It's mostly about your car choices 

[ATX_sig]

Nick Nurse when the coaches are wearing a suit and tie reminds me of Matt Foley.

 

[BGleas]

7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

And they called the foul on OG on the floor, I actually thought the overturn of the Theis call was correct and I thought if anything on the last play Smart fouled Gasol, but it was probably a good no-call. Smart also blatantly traveled before his last shot.

I'm not saying the calls were 1:1 in terms of bad calls, just that there were plenty both ways. It'll be interested to see the two-minute report. 

The NBA's last two minute report backed up that the foul on OG was called correctly. He was not going up to score, he was going up to catch the ball. Unlike the call for Jaylen Brown later, who was trying to opp the pass he recieved. 

The 2-minute report also stated Kemba Walker got fouled at the end of regulation and that the refs missed Normal Powell traveling in overtime on a play where he then drew a foul and made two free throws. 

I'm certainly a homer when it comes to the Celtics and am biased, I'm aware of that and willing to admit the bias, but with that said this series should be over and while the Celtics of course hold blame, the atrocious officiating (and it was atrocious) is also to blame. With the correct calls on several plays, or even just one of the several plays, this series is over.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/09/boston-celtics-kemba-walker-was-fouled-on-final-play-of-regulation-according-to-nbas-last-two-minute-report.html

[Hoosierhoopster]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The NBA's last two minute report backed up that the foul on OG was called correctly. He was not going up to score, he was going up to catch the ball. Unlike the call for Jaylen Brown later, who was trying to opp the pass he recieved. 

The 2-minute report also stated Kemba Walker got fouled at the end of regulation and that the refs missed Normal Powell traveling in overtime on a play where he then drew a foul and made two free throws. 

I'm certainly a homer when it comes to the Celtics and am biased, I'm aware of that and willing to admit the bias, but with that said this series should be over and while the Celtics of course hold blame, the atrocious officiating (and it was atrocious) is also to blame. With the correct calls on several plays, or even just one of the several plays, this series is over.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/09/boston-celtics-kemba-walker-was-fouled-on-final-play-of-regulation-according-to-nbas-last-two-minute-report.html

This is entirely fair imo. Sometimes the refs just stink and it can change the outcome. At least it wasn’t Game 7, now it’s up to the players 

[BobSaccamanno]

23 hours ago, BGleas said:

I hate to do this, but I'm going to do it. Toronto is a tough, championship team and they were never going to go down without a fight, much respect to them and how they played, and the Celtics certainly had chances to put them away, but the officiating the last 3 or so minutes of that game and in both overtimes was absolutely ATROCIOUS!! 

What in god's name does Kemba Walker have to do to get to the foul line. He got hammered on the last possession of regulation and multiple times in the overtimes. That flagrant T on Tatum (I think in the 1st overtime?) was a horrendous call and gave the Raptors a free throw in what ended up being a tied overtime. The overturned call in 2OT when Thies got an offensive rebound was horrible On that last play with .05 left Gasol just ran over Smart, and those are just the ones I remember. 

Edit: I forgot the play down the stretch where Nick Nurse was literally standing on the court and baited Tatum into throwing him the ball which forced a bad pass/turnover. 

The Nurse move was purely disgusting. I lost respect for him after that.  

[BGleas]

Just now, BobSaccamanno said:

The Nurse move was purely disgusting. I lost respect for him after that.  

He's a great coach, no doubt. But between Nurse and Lowery I don't know that I've seen a coach/player combo that are whiny, crybabies. 

Nurse is an NBA combination of Izzo and McCaffery. He literally complains and cries non stop, even when he gets the calls. 

[BobSaccamanno]

8 hours ago, BGleas said:

As HH said, there's a clear difference between a player flopping and a coach purposely interfering with a play, especially a play with 50 seconds left in a tied game. 

On the flopping, I can't disagree with you on Smart. Even as a Celtics fan, I know and understand Smart flops. With that said, the flopping and flailing that Kyle Lowery does out there makes Smart blush. Lowery could teach LeBron a class on flopping, its ridiculous. 

 

I’m not a Celtics fan although Larry Bird is my favorite basketball player of all time so there’s an internal conflict there.  

And I’m a big Brad Stevens fan, so that’s another thing.  

As far as their players, I like Jaylen Brown.  But the guy I easily like the most is Marcus Smart.  He embodies what I like in a ballplayer.  Tough, competitive, defends, intense, team oriented, crazy high motor.  If an observer is stats oriented, they will never get a guy like Smart and how critical he is to the Celtics ability to win. 

If I were recruiting for IU, I’d look for as many players as I could with as many of those traits as possible.  I don’t need the prima donna Kentucky type of kid.  I want @$$ kickers.  

Edited September 11, 2020 by BobSaccamanno

[BGleas]

12 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I’m not a Celtics fan although Larry Bird is my favorite basketball player of all time so there’s an internal conflict there.  

And I’m a big Brad Stevens fan, so that’s another thing.  

As far as their players, I like Jaylen Brown.  But the guy I easily like the most is Marcus Smart.  He embodies what I like in a ballplayer.  Tough, competitive, defends, intense, team oriented, crazy high motor.  If an observer is stats oriented, they will never get a guy like Smart and how critical he is to the Celtics ability to win. 

If I were recruiting for IU, I’d look for as many players as I could with as many of those traits as possible.  I don’t need the prima donna Kentucky type of kid.  I want @$$ kickers.  

Without fail, pretty much every Celtics says Marcus Smart is the most critical Celtic. 

With that said, it is a little funny you mention looking for players like Smart and not UK type of guys, because I believe Smart was the #1 recruit in his class. If not #1, I'm pretty sure he was top 5. 

[BobSaccamanno]

11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Without fail, pretty much every Celtics says Marcus Smart is the most critical Celtic. 

With that said, it is a little funny you mention looking for players like Smart and not UK type of guys, because I believe Smart was the #1 recruit in his class. If not #1, I'm pretty sure he was top 5. 

Yes, and he was the number six pick in the draft.  I just meant applying the concept of a player like that with the traits I mentioned and not the “look at me” guys Kentucky focuses on.  Somebody needs to shoot and score, I get that, but I’d love to see us run with a roster of tough, team oriented guys.  The pros take care of themselves if you play the right way.  That’s the fallacy in many kids’ minds, that you have to “get yours.”  Kentucky ball gives me a headache.  Their roster flips so often that the players can’t have any traction in terms of a legacy.  To each their own if that works for Kentucky fans.

If Archie gets this established in all four classes, the continuity year over year will fall into place and we can become formidable.  I like Archie’s mentality, but he’s going to have to prove he can win tough games and get over the hump.  Say what you want about Crean, but in a couple of seasons, he had the guys playing at a level where they won, home or road, in tough situations, consistently.  I like Archie’s approach to recruiting, but he still has to prove this.  

Edited September 11, 2020 by BobSaccamanno

[KoB2011]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

The NBA's last two minute report backed up that the foul on OG was called correctly. He was not going up to score, he was going up to catch the ball. Unlike the call for Jaylen Brown later, who was trying to opp the pass he recieved. 

The 2-minute report also stated Kemba Walker got fouled at the end of regulation and that the refs missed Normal Powell traveling in overtime on a play where he then drew a foul and made two free throws. 

I'm certainly a homer when it comes to the Celtics and am biased, I'm aware of that and willing to admit the bias, but with that said this series should be over and while the Celtics of course hold blame, the atrocious officiating (and it was atrocious) is also to blame. With the correct calls on several plays, or even just one of the several plays, this series is over.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/09/boston-celtics-kemba-walker-was-fouled-on-final-play-of-regulation-according-to-nbas-last-two-minute-report.html

Here is the two minute report without Celtics commentary: https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0041900216

It doesn't say OG wasn't in the act of shooting on the lob, it says he was fouled. The not in the act of shooting commentary is Celtics commentary. I'm not sure how anyone could judge a lob to the rim with ~2 seconds remaining to not be shooting, then look at the Brown play and say he was. The two minute report doesn't get into the weeds (correct me if I'm wrong here) of saying a foul on the floor should have been shooting, there should have been more time, etc. Both of which were clearly wrong on that play and there is a video linked. I refuse to believe that anyone on this board would accept OG got fouled on the floor there, though. I've actually never seen an end of game lob like that not end in free throws, even though they often are a similar play to that. 

Here is the OG lob: http://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0041900216&eventNum=2350

Here is the Brown lob: https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0041900216&eventNum=2368

OG wasn't shooting because the C's fouled him harder while he was airborne? 

I'm just not seeing how the Celt's got screwed. I see some questionable calls both ways. 

 

 

 

[BGleas]

4 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Here is the two minute report without Celtics commentary: https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0041900216

It doesn't say OG wasn't in the act of shooting on the lob, it says he was fouled. The not in the act of shooting commentary is Celtics commentary. I'm not sure how anyone could judge a lob to the rim with ~2 seconds remaining to not be shooting, then look at the Brown play and say he was. The two minute report doesn't get into the weeds (correct me if I'm wrong here) of saying a foul on the floor should have been shooting, there should have been more time, etc. Both of which were clearly wrong on that play and there is a video linked. I refuse to believe that anyone on this board would accept OG got fouled on the floor there, though. I've actually never seen an end of game lob like that not end in free throws, even though they often are a similar play to that. 

Here is the OG lob: http://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0041900216&eventNum=2350

Here is the Brown lob: https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0041900216&eventNum=2368

OG wasn't shooting because the C's fouled him harder while he was airborne? 

I'm just not seeing how the Celt's got screwed. I see some questionable calls both ways. 

 

 

 

You can’t be shooting if you don’t have the ball. OG never had possession of the ball and was fouled before he even touched it. Tatum has every right to try and jump and catch that pass and the foul occurred as they were both jumping to catch the pass. 

Brown was fouled with the balk in his hands as he was attempting to shoot while in the air. He actually attempted a shot. 

Either way, the NBA agrees OG’s play was not a shooting foul. Also, if the Kemba play is called right, which was a massive missed call, that maybe never happens. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

^^ Good discussion. Highlights how hectic things got and the quick decisions the refs have to make.

I'm not one to defend officiating generally when it looks bad (and all in all in looked pretty bad in that game), but in fairness the discussion reflects how within the speed of the game, getting calls right requires good officiating and that often just isn't easy. 

I am though, somewhat surprised that there isn't more commentary and public discussion of what Nurse did, basically pretending to be a player. Maybe there's more behind the scenes discussion. I've never seen a coach do that.

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

^^ Good discussion. Highlights how hectic things got and the quick decisions the refs have to make.

I'm not one to defend officiating generally when it looks bad (and all in all in looked pretty bad in that game), but in fairness the discussion reflects how within the speed of the game, getting calls right requires good officiating and that often just isn't easy. 

I am though, somewhat surprised that there isn't more commentary and public discussion of what Nurse did, basically pretending to be a player. Maybe there's more behind the scenes discussion. I've never seen a coach do that.

The Nurse thing is tough - I'm definitely not a fan of what he did, but what rule did he break? I'm not sure how you can punish him. 

[KoB2011]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

You can’t be shooting if you don’t have the ball. OG never had possession of the ball and was fouled before he even touched it. Tatum has every right to try and jump and catch that pass and the foul occurred as they were both jumping to catch the pass. 

Brown was fouled with the balk in his hands as he was attempting to shoot while in the air. He actually attempted a shot. 

Either way, the NBA agrees OG’s play was not a shooting foul. Also, if the Kemba play is called right, which was a massive missed call, that maybe never happens. 

So if he never had the ball, how do they take that much time off the clock? Clock shouldn't have moved if the foul was before the ball got there, which would have led to a potentially much better look than they got.

And if the Kemba play is called correctly, the Raptors would have had over 4 seconds with a chance to tie or win. 

The reality is the officiating impacted both teams ability to win at the end, the Celtics probably more so and it happened first, but the Celtics certainly got help from the officials on the Raptors last possession of regulation. 

It was just bad all around.