NBA Thread

[5fouls]

5 minutes ago, cybergates said:

If Vic would just come out and say he's leaving because Pritchard drafted TJ Leaf over OG, I'd be cool with it.

If Vic would come out and say he's leaving because Pritchard drafted TJ Leaf over Tim Priller, I would understand that as well.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Admittedly, I am going to be pro-management most of the time.  it's just who I am and how I see things.

In this particular, case, I don't see Vic's actions to be a betrayal of the Pacers, or even Pacers fans.  This bothers me more as a Hoosiers fan than it does a Pacers fan.

It feels a little more personal than something like the PG13 situation because Vic was a Hoosier before becoming a Pacer

I keep asking myself, would Cody do this.  Or, would Yogi do this.  I realize they haven't achieved what Vic has achieved, but at the same time, I like to believe (and maybe I'm wrong) that each of those guys would take some sort of hometown discount to get to play in Indiana long term.  I always though Vic would as well.  And, yes, hometown discounts do occur on occasion.  

Yogi left Dallas after Dallas treated him great and he was loved there, for more money in Sacto. He may have killed his career doing so. Pretty obvious he would, he already did, with Dallas. Cody? Who knows. Again, you're not considering the management side issues. No one is questioning the P's front office, owners / management. That's my point.

[cybergates]

56 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If Vic would come out and say he's leaving because Pritchard drafted TJ Leaf over Tim Priller, I would understand that as well.  

True. Priller had years of college experience doing what Leaf is doing now.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

What does VO playing at IU had to do with what he is doing now in the NBA.  I loved IT at IU but with the Pistons not do much because I was not a Pistons fan.  Once they leave IU and playing in the NBA and the act like VO is right now I will call him out.

I think you will see a trade like VO to the Nets for a Levert it to the Mavs for a Hardaway.

Also why are players today above being criticized and are they so soft that they can't handle being coached

You didn't answer any of my questions Scott. Why aren't you looking at what the P's owners, front office and management are doing? Why would stars come to the Pacers? What is ownership et al doing to get stars to stay with and join the P's? What are they doing to make stars think twice?

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

You didn't answer any of my questions Scott. Why aren't you looking at what the P's owners, front office and management are doing? Why would stars come to the Pacers? What is ownership et al doing to get stars to stay with and join the P's? What are they doing to make stars think twice?

I have told you plenty of times i had no problem with Bird asking PG to play PF because the players need to do what is asked of them.  I think it has a lot more to do with players not wanting to play in Indiana than the management.  the owner does not want to go into the luxury tax so they will be limited on what they can do in free agency.

Edited September 30, 2020 by IU Scott

[Hoosierhoopster]

46 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I have told you plenty of times i had no problem with Bird asking PG to play PF because the players need to do what is asked of them.  I think it has a lot more to do with players not wanting to play in Indiana than the management.  the owner does not want to go into the luxury tax so they will be limited on what they can do in free agency.

Well I couldn't disagree with you more, and frankly you can't name a single NBA player, let alone star, who would put up with that complete BS. Frankly Scott, your thinking is exactly the kind of thinking that turns players off from the Pacers. That's kind of the point here. If you want to build a team to compete at for a championship, you can't have a player-unfriendly attitude. That's a a problem.

[milehiiu]

Frankly.  I find it repulsive that you people refer to the Indiana NBA franchise as the "P's"   LOL

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Well I couldn't disagree with you more, and frankly you can't name a single NBA player, let alone star, who would put up with that complete BS. Frankly Scott, your thinking is exactly the kind of thinking that turns players off from the Pacers. That's kind of the point here. If you want to build a team to compete at for a championship, you can't have a player-unfriendly attitude. That's a a problem.

That is probably because I am old school and don't like to new school players mentailty

[Hoosierhoopster]

51 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

That is probably because I am old school and don't like to new school players mentailty

Yeah I understand -- I'm not trying to give you a hard time, it's just the reality of the NBA, it's largely a player's league, the stars have more pull than coaches (with exceptions such as Pop), and as franchises live and die depending on the quality of the players, management and coaches generally will take care of them. The P's maybe need to get with the times, or continue to be mediocre. 

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yeah I understand -- I'm not trying to give you a hard time, it's just the reality of the NBA, it's largely a player's league, the stars have more pull than coaches (with exceptions such as Pop), and as franchises live and die depending on the quality of the players, management and coaches generally will take care of them. The P's maybe need to get with the times, or continue to be mediocre. 

And that is the main reason why I have lost a lot of interest in the NBA game.  It appears a lot of fans are losing interest based on the rating that the playoffs has gotten.

[Hoosierhoopster]

15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

And that is the main reason why I have lost a lot of interest in the NBA game.  It appears a lot of fans are losing interest based on the rating that the playoffs has gotten.

the ratings just reflect the times, playoffs in an empty stadium, the bubble. 

[IU Scott]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

the ratings just reflect the times, playoffs in an empty stadium, the bubble. 

You would think more would be watching since you can't see the game in person.  Also there is not much else that has been going on especially early on in the playoffs.  I just have read where a lot of people ar ejust plain tired ot he players attitudes and how they think they are bigger than the game.

[FKIM01]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

the ratings just reflect the times, playoffs in an empty stadium, the bubble. 

 

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

You would think more would be watching since you can't see the game in person.  Also there is not much else that has been going on especially early on in the playoffs.  I just have read where a lot of people are just plain tired of the players attitudes and how they think they are bigger than the game.

These are all factors, IMO.  I disagree with Scott on a lot of things, but what he says here has absolutely played a factor in a substantial part of the potential fanbase.  The NBA will always have a hardcore fanbase that will watch and support almost no matter what, but the players themselves have turned off a significant number of fans.

[BGleas]

4 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yogi left Dallas after Dallas treated him great and he was loved there, for more money in Sacto. He may have killed his career doing so. Pretty obvious he would, he already did, with Dallas. Cody? Who knows. Again, you're not considering the management side issues. No one is questioning the P's front office, owners / management. That's my point.

I was coming here to post the same thing. At what point do you blame the Pacers management? 

There have been plenty of smaller market teams over the years where star players stayed for long periods of time, and this seems to be the beginning of a new trend for the Pacers where guys are leaving. 

[5fouls]

For me, basketball has been the most difficult to watch without fans among the major sports (sorry, hockey, you never connected with me).  Basketball just seems to lose more than baseball and football. That could be contributing to low ratings, because I know it makes a difference with me.  There just is no energy at all.  And, basketball needs energy.

 I've found football to be the easiest to watch.  Honestly, I'm not really missing the fans there at all.  With baseball, you get the constant reminder there are no fans because with every pitch you're seeing the seats behind home plate.  Throw in foul balls and you are fully aware the stands are empty.  With football, you never see the fans during the action, unless it's something like a Lambeau Leap after a touchdown.    

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

For me, basketball has been the most difficult to watch without fans among the major sports (sorry, hockey, you never connected with me).  Basketball just seems to lose more than baseball and football. That could be contributing to low ratings, because I know it makes a difference with me.  There just is no energy at all.  And, basketball needs energy.

 I've found football to be the easiest to watch.  Honestly, I'm not really missing the fans there at all.  With baseball, you get the constant reminder there are no fans because with every pitch you're seeing the seats behind home plate.  Throw in foul balls and you are fully aware the stands are empty.  With football, you never see the fans during the action, unless it's something like a Lambeau Leap after a touchdown.    

It has been a little weird watching the baseball playoffs without fans.  Like in the Reds game where late in the game with a lot of drama but it was not the same without fans.

[BGleas]

30 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

For me, basketball has been the most difficult to watch without fans among the major sports (sorry, hockey, you never connected with me).  Basketball just seems to lose more than baseball and football. That could be contributing to low ratings, because I know it makes a difference with me.  There just is no energy at all.  And, basketball needs energy.

 I've found football to be the easiest to watch.  Honestly, I'm not really missing the fans there at all.  With baseball, you get the constant reminder there are no fans because with every pitch you're seeing the seats behind home plate.  Throw in foul balls and you are fully aware the stands are empty.  With football, you never see the fans during the action, unless it's something like a Lambeau Leap after a touchdown.    

It depends on how you're looking at it. I agree that basketball probably suffers the most from not having fans, but at the same time I think the actual level and quality of play in the NBA bubble has been fantastic. The players are rested from not having to travel, they're sleeping in the same bed every night and the distractions are limited, and that's been reflected in the play.

With that said, again I do agree that not having sold out home arenas does impact basketball the most. Honestly, I think Miami is a really good team. I said as much in that as a Celtics fan they scared me the most before the playoff started, but I also think the makeup of their team (1 real star and then role players) has benefitted the most from not having to play road playoff games. 

I also agree that I barely notice that there aren't fans while watching football. 

[DC2345]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:03 PM, BGleas said:

The Celtics would throw picks in for Vic/Turner, not for Turner and McDerrmot or Lamb. Hayward is an expiring deal next summer, so the Celtics would actually be taking back more years and long term money. 

Ainge would throw one in simply because the Celtics have so many picks and don’t need more rookies though. 

You’re wrong about that. They would because they need the cap space and they want Turner. 

[DC2345]

Sounds like Doc Rivers will be the coach in Philadelphia. Possibly as soon as tonight.

[BGleas]

19 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

You’re wrong about that. They would because they need the cap space and they want Turner. 

The picks don’t impact the cap space in the trade. 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

It depends on how you're looking at it. I agree that basketball probably suffers the most from not having fans, but at the same time I think the actual level and quality of play in the NBA bubble has been fantastic. The players are rested from not having to travel, they're sleeping in the same bed every night and the distractions are limited, and that's been reflected in the play.

With that said, again I do agree that not having sold out home arenas does impact basketball the most. Honestly, I think Miami is a really good team. I said as much in that as a Celtics fan they scared me the most before the playoff started, but I also think the makeup of their team (1 real star and then role players) has benefitted the most from not having to play road playoff games. 

I also agree that I barely notice that there aren't fans while watching football. 

I think football suffers the most without fans. I mean no crowd noise to make it not nearly as difficult for opposing offenses. It makes a huge difference. Can you imagine Peyton playing with no crowd noise being able to audible easily at will?? Viewing wise baseball suffers a ton. Playoff baseball you can feel the crowd on the edge of their seat, roaring for a hit, strike out, you can almost feel like you are there. Basketball has always been pretty sterile as far as the nba goes for me. Half the time the music is so loud I couldn’t even talk with my friend/wife at the game. It gets loud too don’t get me wrong but I don’t think it really effects the game much...probably officials more than players.
Viewing wise most basketball and football shots are close/tight shots on the action. Baseball you see empty behind the catcher, the dugout, every foul ball, home run...so all in all I think basketball loses the least...and yet people don’t want to tune in...I think we all know why...it’s the most vocal of all of the professional sports with messaging.

Edited October 1, 2020 by dgambill

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

I was coming here to post the same thing. At what point do you blame the Pacers management? 

There have been plenty of smaller market teams over the years where star players stayed for long periods of time, and this seems to be the beginning of a new trend for the Pacers where guys are leaving. 

I feel like the Pacers have opened up the check book for their stars over the years. I think they were their best bringing in guys when Donnie Walsh was there (imo). They also always fielded competitive teams and guys like playing for that.
Then the nba landscape changed....players instead of wanting to carry a team or be the man switched to wanted to play with their friends/join up. Well the Pacers first off didn’t have that “guy” to get people to want to come...(PG ain’t Lebron or Steph or Kobe or Wade etc) second off as a small market couldn’t pay enough stars (going over the cap) to afford multiple stars anyways. Finally Indy is pretty much considered the boringness NBA city by players. It’s not exactly black friendly in nightlife, food faire, or social scene. Getting a star to relocate to live there is difficult...it isn’t a destination much less one you can convince multiple people to come to. 
All that and now the players are the way they are now...not wanting to stick it out on their own and all want to be buddy buddy with each other instead of like Butler who is like “f yall” I hate you and I want to kill ya and I want to play with guys that have guts (feels like he is the only one like that at least). Players are so different. Entitled and Indy just don’t mix. We will have to get lucky with good draft picks and a couple good trades and piece something together....but I won’t hold my breath....Milwaulkie has a once in a generation talent and they aren’t even getting to the finals...as small markets go they have everything you can want. I won’t sweat losing Vic. Loved him but he ain’t Gianis. Losing him won’t sink us.

Edited October 1, 2020 by dgambill

[dwtaylor1055]

With how the Pacers front office and owners are operating, the only way to get big name guys(PG/Victor/Sabonis) is either through the draft or get lucky in a trade(See PG trade).  We all know the Pacers history with drafts, mostly the last oh I dunno say 10 years have been short of average in terms of a return each year IMO with the exception of Myles Turner, Aaron Holiday(after 3 years IMO we can safely determine if this pick was good or not), etc.  

 

Now you need to spend money to win, plain and simple.  OR get lucky and hit on a draft class and get great talent on cheap contracts and sprinkle around some very good veterans and an all star or two, aka Miami.  The Simons need to spend some extra money then be content a few million short of entering the luxury tax or salary cap limit and being content with consistent playoff appearances year in and year out while having 1st rd exits every year.  

 

I do not think the Pacers should offer Vic a max contract.  I love Vic and always will, however, more times than not he's a volume scorer, 4 or 5 boards per game and 3 or 4 assists per game at best.  Yes he brings heart, energy and solid defense, however, factoring all of that into the equation plus a max contract at say $33 mil or whatever it is, that is setting a team/franchise up for failure.  If Vic goes, I think you need to build around Sabonis, Warren, Brogdon and Aaron Holiday.  You'll get decent assets in return for Vic, heck maybe even a 1st rd pick.  

 

All I am saying, as a 7 going on 8 year season ticket holder for the pacers it's the same thing every year.  1st rd exits come playoff time.  Roll with Brogdon/Warren/Sabonis/Holiday, sprinkle in your returns from flipping Vic and Myles(oh I dunno 2 1st rd picks) and add some solid vets to the squad and I think we are right back at a 4 seed.    

[rico]

I miss those Reggie Miller led Pacer teams....

[DC2345]

9 hours ago, BGleas said:

The picks don’t impact the cap space in the trade. 

I get that and pretty much ever person who has said the Celtics have interest in trading for Turner and giving up Hayword has said the Celtics would have to include draft capital or young assets. That said it's all speculation at this point and as many as 10 teams or more are interested in Turner alone.