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1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I thought that too.  I think the analytics guys have studied draft picks.  After a handful of guys in each draft, they tend to be overvalued. The minute you drive the kid off the lot, his value dips.  I think the math guys have figured that out.  I think what you’re seeing is the devaluing of draft picks.  

Especially this years draft where it is not very good.

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37 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I’m not buying what you’re selling.  Last year, teams built the wall defense to stop Giannis.  But other than Middleton, nobody could come through and get buckets.  Bledsoe is complicated. He’s first team all defense and a good regular season player.  But when Giannis needed guys to take pressure off him in the playoffs, everyone tightened up.  Now they got Bogdan who is his buddy from Europe along with a tough two way player in Holiday.   Those guys address elements that were severely lacking.  

As far as finishing out the roster, they will get guys who want to win.  That happened last year and you would expect it again.  There are guys who want to contend and there’s opportunity to play there.  I’d much rather see Milwaukee be competitive and get some more fresh blood like Toronto.  

I agree with KoB, as usual, as they will need a wing defender who is tough.  Maybe somebody in the mold of one of the Morris twins.  

It sounds like Giannis is staying. I saw that on Twitter so it must be true.  They were playing it coy to make Miami and Dallas hesitate to spend this year.  

I just saw the Bojan thing went through.  So that replaces the shooting loss of G Hill.  That's a really solid all the way around starting 5 that really perfectly compliments Giannis.  They have to stay healthy.  They have zero depth.  

There isn't really anything to discuss about as far as cap.  Guess the question is how close are they going to push to hard cap?

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9 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I just saw the Bojan thing went through.  So that replaces the shooting loss of G Hill.  That's a really solid all the way around starting 5 that really perfectly compliments Giannis.  They have to stay healthy.  They have zero depth.  

There isn't really anything to discuss about as far as cap.  Guess the question is how close are they going to push to hard cap?

I see that the Bucks will have a great starting 5 but not much depth.  They will be losing Hill, Bledsoe, Devo, Isylvania, Mathews, Wilson, Lopez so who is left

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Don't understand some of these trades and the compensation for them.  Houston is trading Robert Covington to Portland for Trevor Ariza and a 21 and 22 first round picks.  How in the world is Robert Covington worth two first round picks and a player.

Sounds like with clarification it's either or with those picks.  Still don't get it though. 

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47 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I see that the Bucks will have a great starting 5 but not much depth.  They will be losing Hill, Bledsoe, Devo, Isylvania, Mathews, Wilson, Lopez so who is left

I don't think you need much depth. With load management, you play your stars enough to make the playoffs and then there are a couple of days between playoff games so you get enough rest.

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2 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

I just saw the Bojan thing went through.  So that replaces the shooting loss of G Hill.  That's a really solid all the way around starting 5 that really perfectly compliments Giannis.  They have to stay healthy.  They have zero depth.  

There isn't really anything to discuss about as far as cap.  Guess the question is how close are they going to push to hard cap?

I agree with you on their depth.  Let’s see who they round off the roster with before we make a judgment.  Bogan is a far better asset than Hill by the way.  He was a hot commodity.  I saw one listing where was rated the fourth best player available.  

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2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I agree with you on their depth.  Let’s see who they round off the roster with before we make a judgment.  Bogan is a far better asset than Hill by the way.  He was a hot commodity.  I saw one listing where was rated the fourth best player available.  

I did see him as the 2nd best forward available behind Brow who isn't actually available.  

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8 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Yes I think a starting lineup of Brogdon, Vic, Hayward, Warren and Sabonis is a better fit in todays game.  4 guys that can step behind the arc and stroke the 3 ball(Sabonis worst out of the starting 5).  

Bench is a major wild card entering this offseason

That’s an awful defensive unit. Best scenario for Pacers is a sign and trade...not sure how we land him otherwise. I don’t like salary dump.

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I like the Jrue trade for the Bucks for a few reasons: 1.) He's a terrific two way player 2.) He knows his role on and off the court 3.) Can score at all three levels.  I think the Bucks have done enough to show Giannis why he should sign a super max and stay but we shall see.  

 

A starting 5 of Jrue/Middleton/Bogdon/Giannis/Lopez is lethal and scary.  Now there bench is another story.  They'll need to get some solid vet mins to fill the bench.  

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30 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

I like the Jrue trade for the Bucks for a few reasons: 1.) He's a terrific two way player 2.) He knows his role on and off the court 3.) Can score at all three levels.  I think the Bucks have done enough to show Giannis why he should sign a super max and stay but we shall see.  

 

A starting 5 of Jrue/Middleton/Bogdon/Giannis/Lopez is lethal and scary.  Now there bench is another story.  They'll need to get some solid vet mins to fill the bench.  

So how is their cap space?

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11 hours ago, dgambill said:

That’s an awful defensive unit. Best scenario for Pacers is a sign and trade...not sure how we land him otherwise. I don’t like salary dump.

only way to work for pacers would be a sign and trade.  Brogdon is a good defender as is Vic, Warren is a good underrated defender.  Sabonis is average or below average on defense.  Hayward is worse than Sabonis on defense.  Not sure its an awful unit for defense, its at least average at worst.  

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I love the Pacers and love most Indiana born kids and want them back home.  

What I don't understand is paying, grossly over paying, Gordon Hayward.

And.  And helping the Celtics not only get off the hook of his salary, some of you are talking about a sign and trade.  Why would the Pacers do either of those things which would both massively give the Celtics an advantage.  Prediction.  I don't think Pritchard makes moves like that.  Maybe it becomes a renegotiated extension, sign and trade and the Pacers get Hayward around 18 mil for 4 years.  

Somebody help me out on the rationale here because I see a guy that's a mid level player now. 

Edited by NotIThatLives
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18 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I love the Pacers and love most Indiana born kids and want them back home.  

What I don't understand is paying, grossly over paying, Gordon Hayward.

And.  And helping the Celtics not only get off the hook of his salary, some of you are talking about a sign and trade.  Why would the Pacers do either of those things which would both massively give the Celtics an advantage.  Prediction.  I don't think Pritchard makes moves like that.  Maybe it becomes a renegotiated extension, sign and trade and the Pacers get Hayward around 18 mil for 4 years.  

Somebody help me out on the rationale here because I see a guy that's a mid level player now. 

I'm guessing you didn't watch a lot of the Celtics last year? Hayward was pretty much back to his old self post-injury. 

He had a really strong year, its just he was playing with Kemba, Tatum, Brown and Smart, so his usage wasn't what he's used too, but he had a really good year. 

If he opts out with the Celtics, it will be to get a raise on more years, not to take a pay cut. 

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19 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm guessing you didn't watch a lot of the Celtics last year? Hayward was pretty much back to his old self post-injury. 

He had a really strong year, its just he was playing with Kemba, Tatum, Brown and Smart, so his usage wasn't what he's used too, but he had a really good year. 

If he opts out with the Celtics, it will be to get a raise on more years, not to take a pay cut. 

Yall can keep him.  Respectfully.  I know you watch way more of him than me.  Me calling him a mid level player may be shorting him but I doubt he will ever be an all star again.  Certainly not worth $34,187,085.  He's 29, injury prone?  Maybe he's looking for 4 years 100 range?  I guess we will find out by Thursday afternoon.

Thanks but no thanks.  Ainge is notorious for fleecing the hell out of teams on trades.  I don't think Pritchard is the fleece-able type.  

Edit:  I couldn't get into the playoffs.  What happened there?  10.8 pts.  

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3 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

only way to work for pacers would be a sign and trade.  Brogdon is a good defender as is Vic, Warren is a good underrated defender.  Sabonis is average or below average on defense.  Hayward is worse than Sabonis on defense.  Not sure its an awful unit for defense, its at least average at worst.  

I agree - good defense in the backcourt. I think Warren is a better defender at the 4 than the 3. 

Hayward and Sabonis are the weak links but they're both smart players that I think can play good team defense even if they're less physically capable on that end. I think that 5 could be a case of the sum be great than the parts on defense. 

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1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

 

Edit:  I couldn't get into the playoffs.  What happened there?  10.8 pts.  

He missed a significant chunk of time and had to leave the bubble. I think it's fair to be concerned about his injuries, but I wouldn't read anything into his playoff numbers. When healthy, Hayward is a really good player.

Given that the Pacers are unlikely to have a superstar in the near future their best bet is to be able to put 5 very good players on the court and beat you based on matchups, which is exactly what they could do with Hayward. 

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18 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree - good defense in the backcourt. I think Warren is a better defender at the 4 than the 3. 

Hayward and Sabonis are the weak links but they're both smart players that I think can play good team defense even if they're less physically capable on that end. I think that 5 could be a case of the sum be great than the parts on defense. 

Hayward is a good defender. 

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10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

He missed a significant chunk of time and had to leave the bubble. I think it's fair to be concerned about his injuries, but I wouldn't read anything into his playoff numbers. When healthy, Hayward is a really good player.

Given that the Pacers are unlikely to have a superstar in the near future their best bet is to be able to put 5 very good players on the court and beat you based on matchups, which is exactly what they could do with Hayward. 

Definitely don't disagree with the strategy.  We have to build it like the Billups Pistons.  If it becomes a bidding war, I predict the Pacers are out.  Just not their MO.  I've seen, Pacers, kings, hawks, Jazz, and knicks rumored to be interested.  I would imagine more teams are.  Pacers won't outspend someone dumb like kings, hawks, or knicks.  Not sure Jazz can with Conley's monster money.  

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2 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Yall can keep him.  Respectfully.  I know you watch way more of him than me.  Me calling him a mid level player may be shorting him but I doubt he will ever be an all star again.  Certainly not worth $34,187,085.  He's 29, injury prone?  Maybe he's looking for 4 years 100 range?  I guess we will find out by Thursday afternoon.

Thanks but no thanks.  Ainge is notorious for fleecing the hell out of teams on trades.  I don't think Pritchard is the fleece-able type.  

Edit:  I couldn't get into the playoffs.  What happened there?  10.8 pts.  

Respectfully as well, but you're talking about a player you admittedly haven't really watched. He was playing at an all-star level last season, especially the early part of the season. 

He then got hurt and that took him out of all-star contention. But, Hayward was basically back to his old self, just on a team with more weapons so his usage was down. 

The injuries are a concern, im not going to act like they aren't. But with that said, his injuries have been more of the freak accident type, not the chronic type. 

The injury that took him out early in the season was getting his finger stuck in another players jersey and dislocating a finger. Obviously the ankle injury whole horrific, was a freak thing. His injuries aren't like chronic hamstring pulls and knee issues, etc.

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Just now, BGleas said:

Respectfully as well, but you're talking about a player you admittedly haven't really watched. He was playing at an all-star level last season, especially the early part of the season. 

He then got hurt and that took him out of all-star contention. But, Hayward was basically back to his old self, just on a team with more weapons so his usage was down. 

The injuries are a concern, im not going to act like they aren't. But with that said, his injuries have been more of the freak accident type, not the chronic type. 

The injury that took him out early in the season was getting his finger stuck in another players jersey and dislocating a finger. Obviously the ankle injury whole horrific, was a freak thing. His injuries aren't like chronic hamstring pulls and knee issues, etc.

I know he got rolling.  I have forgotten about the ins and outs of recent injuries.  

It's just my opinion that if the price is 30 mil or so a year, Pacers are out and most of us Pacer fans on this board are wasting our breath or typing fingers, whatever.  

Just like Pacers were out when Mike Conley was discussed.  30+ mil a year for guys that can't carry you to a championship, have either injury or age up against them.  Sounds like deals the knicks and kings are professionals at.  Surprised a conservative team like Utah pushed the chips in for Conley last year.  Didn't move the needle at all.  Usually doesn't.  Take CP3.  Heck of a player but he isn't taking you anywhere and the salary handicaps your supporting cast.  

 

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19 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I know he got rolling.  I have forgotten about the ins and outs of recent injuries.  

It's just my opinion that if the price is 30 mil or so a year, Pacers are out and most of us Pacer fans on this board are wasting our breath or typing fingers, whatever.  

Just like Pacers were out when Mike Conley was discussed.  30+ mil a year for guys that can't carry you to a championship, have either injury or age up against them.  Sounds like deals the knicks and kings are professionals at.  Surprised a conservative team like Utah pushed the chips in for Conley last year.  Didn't move the needle at all.  Usually doesn't.  Take CP3.  Heck of a player but he isn't taking you anywhere and the salary handicaps your supporting cast.  

 

That I agree with. Completely. Was just pushing back on the idea that Hayward is now just an average player. He's still an upper echelon player, but I agree that he isn't a guy that makes you a title contender. But, he is pretty much back to his old self. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That I agree with. Completely. Was just pushing back on the idea that Hayward is now just an average player. He's still an upper echelon player, but I agree that he isn't a guy that makes you a title contender. But, he is pretty much back to his old self. 

I hope so he never gives you a reason not to cheer for him so I do continue to root for him just wish that shot against Duke would have fallen.

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