dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, BGleas said: There's a difference between an elite superstar and a #1. As mentioned above, you could potentially move Sabonis for Colin Sextion. Sexton isn't an elite superstar, but he has the potential to be a #1 scorer on a contending playoff team that is similar to Utah, Atlanta, Phoenix, and teams like that. He has the potential to turn into a Trae Young, a Donovan Mitchell, a Jamal Murray, etc. You put him around Lavert, Brogdon, Warren, Turner, etc., and you have a nice core there with a lead scoring guard, a legit wing scorer in Lavert, a strong secondary ball handler in Brogdon, an elite 3 and D guy in Warren, and a rim protecting/floor spacing big in Turner. That is a lineup that can compete in the Eastern Conference playoffs if you fill the bench out the right way. Sexton is interesting...but I think Cleveland would prefer picks....their window is pretty far off. We would need to flip somebody...Turner/Sabonis for several draft picks as his salary is pretty low...but yes targeting young guys with high upside is what I'd like to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 The Pacers path to contending now is the same it has always been and the same as three of the last four teams left(really all four, MIL just got a little lucky with how good Giannis is). We need a solid number one, but not necessarily one of the top 5-10 guys in the league which a bunch of guys that can be the second or third best player on a contender. That type of team, with the right breaks is the only way I can see us winning a title. When you look historically at when we have been successful and had teams that could have won a title, that's generally our formula. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Just now, dgambill said: Sexton is interesting...but I think Cleveland would prefer picks....their window is pretty far off. We would need to flip somebody...Turner/Sabonis for several draft picks as his salary is pretty low...but yes targeting young guys with high upside is what I'd like to do. I don't know that Cleveland is going to get picks for him. The Pacers seem like the type of team he could be a fit for. I would be surprised if another bottom feeder team traded their picks for him. Maybe Toronto for the 4th pick, but not sure what Toronto would send back player wise. I think Sabonis is still young enough where Cleveland could pair him with Garland and whoever they draft at #3. A young core of Garland, Sabonis and say Jalen Green is an interesting mix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, dgambill said: Sexton is interesting...but I think Cleveland would prefer picks....their window is pretty far off. We would need to flip somebody...Turner/Sabonis for several draft picks as his salary is pretty low...but yes targeting young guys with high upside is what I'd like to do. I don't think Cleveland thinks they are far off. I think they look at Atlanta and Phoenix and think with one or two of the right moves and they can be a good team next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 minute ago, BGleas said: I don't know that Cleveland is going to get picks for him. The Pacers seem like the type of team he could be a fit for. I would be surprised if another bottom feeder team traded their picks for him. Maybe Toronto for the 4th pick, but not sure what Toronto would send back player wise. I think Sabonis is still young enough where Cleveland could pair him with Garland and whoever they draft at #3. A young core of Garland, Sabonis and say Jalen Green is an interesting mix. Plus Okoro and Jarret Allen. That could be a really intriguing team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I think you could potentially move Sabonis and our pick for Wiseman, but it's the inclusion of another lottery pick that really throws it off IMO. But at that point I don't think it's a good move for the Pacers. We need someone a little more ready to be the one now, even if the upside isn't the same as what Wiseman has. We aren't far enough off to completely punt on the next few years which is what we would be doing if we move Sabonis for Wiseman IMO. We will see what GS does....you know they want another all-star...who has them and who is willing to move them are two different things. All-star talent aren't easy to acquire...they usually cost multiple 1st rd picks. Wiseman is a #2 pick but he is a known commodity now...he is not worth the same as picking anyone #2. I mean GS could have had Melo...might even argue Patrick Williams might be more intriguing player to have. Not only that can you make the $$ work.....how many all-star players can slide in your cap too. Sabonis could fit and they would still have Wiggins. Most all stars require max salary to come back...there are a lot of facets that can make Sabonis even more attractive then another equally good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Just now, KoB2011 said: Plus Okoro and Jarret Allen. That could be a really intriguing team. That would be a solid core when you add in a Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs too. I forgot about Okoro and Allen. Sabonis would actually fit really well there, assuming they can also move off the Kevin Love contract for some more assets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, BGleas said: I don't know that Cleveland is going to get picks for him. The Pacers seem like the type of team he could be a fit for. I would be surprised if another bottom feeder team traded their picks for him. Maybe Toronto for the 4th pick, but not sure what Toronto would send back player wise. I think Sabonis is still young enough where Cleveland could pair him with Garland and whoever they draft at #3. A young core of Garland, Sabonis and say Jalen Green is an interesting mix. He is a conundrum....definitely intriguing. I get the feeling if they move off him...they'd like to move Love too....and that is a mammoth contract to swallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 I'll just shut up and wait and see...I know what I'm expecting but who knows...maybe I will be pleasantly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 17 minutes ago, dgambill said: We will see what GS does....you know they want another all-star...who has them and who is willing to move them are two different things. All-star talent aren't easy to acquire...they usually cost multiple 1st rd picks. Wiseman is a #2 pick but he is a known commodity now...he is not worth the same as picking anyone #2. I mean GS could have had Melo...might even argue Patrick Williams might be more intriguing player to have. Not only that can you make the $$ work.....how many all-star players can slide in your cap too. Sabonis could fit and they would still have Wiggins. Most all stars require max salary to come back...there are a lot of facets that can make Sabonis even more attractive then another equally good player. I think we are overstating Sabonis by a lot. Yes, he made an ASG in the East on a team that's other options missed lot of time. He's actually made the same number of All-Star teams as Jaylen Brown and has a similarly team friendly contract. Do you think those two guys are valued the same? I sure don't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I think we are overstating Sabonis by a lot. Yes, he made an ASG in the East on a team that's other options missed lot of time. He's actually made the same number of All-Star teams as Jaylen Brown and has a similarly team friendly contract. Do you think those two guys are valued the same? I sure don't. No...of course not. But Boston isn't going to give up Brown for anything but Beal, Lillard, KAT level superstar player deal. Brown is untouchable. Sabonis is obtainable given his contract, age, status...and he adds a ton of value to a title contender. Celtics wouldnt trade Brown for Wiseman and #7. Who knows...maybe the Pacers think he is untouchable to. I look at most two time all-stars who are 20-12-6 and there aren't many....and the ones that are out there....probably aren't available. Edited June 25, 2021 by dgambill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I think we are overstating Sabonis by a lot. Yes, he made an ASG in the East on a team that's other options missed lot of time. He's actually made the same number of All-Star teams as Jaylen Brown and has a similarly team friendly contract. Do you think those two guys are valued the same? I sure don't. Not trying to be a homer, but I have to agree. Brown's trade value is definitely higher than Sabonis'. It's not like it's a huge, huge gap or anything, but there is a gap. Some of it just comes down to how wings/guards are valued in today's NBA versus bigs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 30 minutes ago, dgambill said: He is a conundrum....definitely intriguing. I get the feeling if they move off him...they'd like to move Love too....and that is a mammoth contract to swallow. They'll definitely want to move Love, especially if they got someone like Sabonis in return for Sexton. But, moving Sexton and Love can be done in separate deals. The more I think about it, moving Sabonis for Sexton would be a huge move for the Pacers, though it does seem like an "un-Pacers" like thing to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BGleas said: They'll definitely want to move Love, especially if they got someone like Sabonis in return for Sexton. But, moving Sexton and Love can be done in separate deals. The more I think about it, moving Sabonis for Sexton would be a huge move for the Pacers, though it does seem like an "un-Pacers" like thing to do. They'd get killed if they did by the fanbase. I mean who knows...we end up with Mitchell in the draft and it would make the move for Sexton seem unnecessary. I'm wondering would Portland move Mccollum for Sabonis & Lamb? Maybe some other pieces each way to satisfy? I mean I'm not sure what other player of Sabonis caliber is out there that we would be interested in if we are just looking at winning this year/next? Mccollum is a little older and starting to break down more than I would like if giving up Sabonis but I'm not sure what more we could expect in a win now trade. Edited June 25, 2021 by dgambill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 minute ago, dgambill said: They'd get killed if they did by the fanbase. I mean who knows...we end up with Mitchell in the draft and it would make the move for Sexton seem unnecessary. I'm wondering would Portland move Mccollum for Sabonis & Lamb? Maybe some other pieces each way to satisfy? I mean I'm not sure what other player of Sabonis caliber is out there that we would be interested in if we are just looking at winning this year/next? The Pacers would get killed for trading for Sexton? Why? I'd say those are dumb fans, and I don't know that Mitchell is going to be a 24ppg lead guard in the NBA, which Sexton is. I don't see Davion Mitchell as being a star in the NBA, Sexton has that kind of potential. Honestly, I'd maybe rather have Sexton than McCollum. Sexton is younger and has been the primary guard on a team. McCollum is solid, but I don't know how he'd thrive as the primary ball handler. He's always played off of Lillard. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATX_sig Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Seems Tyler Herro will be available. Was he a bubble wonder? https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/edge/basketball/nba/player/51044/tyler-herro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, ATX_sig said: Seems Tyler Herro will be available. Was he a bubble wonder? https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/edge/basketball/nba/player/51044/tyler-herro Yeah, he did not have a good season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, BGleas said: The Pacers would get killed for trading for Sexton? Why? I'd say those are dumb fans, and I don't know that Mitchell is going to be a 24ppg lead guard in the NBA, which Sexton is. I don't see Davion Mitchell as being a star in the NBA, Sexton has that kind of potential. Honestly, I'd maybe rather have Sexton than McCollum. Sexton is younger and has been the primary guard on a team. McCollum is solid, but I don't know how he'd thrive as the primary ball handler. He's always played off of Lillard. A lot of people aren't impressed with Sexton's play. Guy is talking over 18 shots a game. Doesn't really pass much...high turnover to assist ratio. Basically one of those good player on a really bad team so those stats are bloated. Shoots 37% from 3....good but not great. I'm not saying in the right scenerio I woudn't want him...just I'm not sure how much of that production is selfishness/transferable. Why would Cavs want to trade him since there is all these rumors? Why not trade Garland? Something is a little off there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, dgambill said: They'd get killed if they did by the fanbase. I mean who knows...we end up with Mitchell in the draft and it would make the move for Sexton seem unnecessary. I'm wondering would Portland move Mccollum for Sabonis & Lamb? Maybe some other pieces each way to satisfy? I mean I'm not sure what other player of Sabonis caliber is out there that we would be interested in if we are just looking at winning this year/next? Mccollum is a little older and starting to break down more than I would like if giving up Sabonis but I'm not sure what more we could expect in a win now trade. I don't think any Pacer fans would be uspet about getting Sexton. He would be the go to scorer we desperately need and I don't know any Pacers fans that don't realize Sabonis is a flawed player. Don't get me wrong, I love Sabonis but there is a reason we all seen to agree you can't build a team around him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, BGleas said: Yeah, he did not have a good season. Yeah they should have sold high last offseason for sure. I'm not saying he isn't still a good player but his value is definitely not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: I don't think any Pacer fans would be uspet about getting Sexton. He would be the go to scorer we desperately need and I don't know any Pacers fans that don't realize Sabonis is a flawed player. Don't get me wrong, I love Sabonis but there is a reason we all seen to agree you can't build a team around him. Hard to build around a 4 that can't stretch the floor or a 5 that can't protect the rim....he is very difficult. Had this been 1991....we'd have something REALLY special. He still has his value surrounded with excellent shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, dgambill said: A lot of people aren't impressed with Sexton's play. Guy is talking over 18 shots a game. Doesn't really pass much...high turnover to assist ratio. Basically one of those good player on a really bad team so those stats are bloated. Shoots 37% from 3....good but not great. I'm not saying in the right scenerio I woudn't want him...just I'm not sure how much of that production is selfishness/transferable. Why would Cavs want to trade him since there is all these rumors? Why not trade Garland? Something is a little off there. He's a better 3pt shooter than Trae Young. Shockingly, Young only shoots about 34% from 3. Those are some valid concerns, but I think Cleveland's biggest reason for moving him is salary. Sexton wants a max deal, and Cleveland has a lot of guys to pay coming up soon (Jarrett Allen will be getting a big deal soon). Garland showed similar potential as well, so they don't need two guys in the same role, and Garland has an extra year on a rookie deal. It is gamble, because Sexton hasn't shown to be a great facilitator, but also how much of that is because his team and coaching situations have been crap? I'd say getting a player like Sexton to elevate his skills, but in a team environment that is ready to win, is why you hire a coach like Rick Carlisle. You sell Sexton on what is happening to Trae Young right now in terms of the love he is getting nationally. Play in the team concept with other really good players, lead us in scoring but also facilitate more and we can win big. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BGleas said: He's a better 3pt shooter than Trae Young. Shockingly, Young only shoots about 34% from 3. Those are some valid concerns, but I think Cleveland's biggest reason for moving him is salary. Sexton wants a max deal, and Cleveland has a lot of guys to pay coming up soon (Jarrett Allen will be getting a big deal soon). Garland showed similar potential as well, so they don't need two guys in the same role, and Garland has an extra year on a rookie deal. It is gamble, because Sexton hasn't shown to be a great facilitator, but also how much of that is because his team and coaching situations have been crap? I'd say getting a player like Sexton to elevate his skills, but in a team environment that is ready to win, is why you hire a coach like Rick Carlisle. You sell Sexton on what is happening to Trae Young right now in terms of the love he is getting nationally. Play in the team concept with other really good players, lead us in scoring but also facilitate more and we can win big. You are selling me on him lol. I guess you would have the full year to evaluate him and decide if you want to give him a max deal next offseason or possibly do a sign and trade etc. I guess I just didn't think Cleveland was ready to compete now...but Sabonis at 25 isn't so much older that he won't fit their window. Now...does he fit next to Allen? Hard to say. Edited June 25, 2021 by dgambill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: With no roster changes other than through the draft, what kind of impact does Carlisle have? Plus 5 games? More? Less? I think if this team is healthy at best this team is a 5 seed on the east. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: I think if this team is healthy at best this team is a 5 seed on the east. If things fell right for the Pacers and not right for a couple other teams, I could see them as high as 3rd or 4th. Again, that if health and things fell right for the Pacers. Look at Atlanta this year. I'm not saying they aren't a good team, but they benefitted greatly by injuries and covid issues to teams like Boston, Miami, Indiana, Brooklyn, etc. Even just getting lucky that the Knicks were the 4 seed they got to face in the first round and not a healthy Boston, Indiana, or Miami. So if Indiana comes back and has a healthy season with a better coach, and some other teams falter with issues, I could see a scenario where Indiana benefits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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