dgambill Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, BGleas said: Agree. A Portland team built around Paul George and McCollum along with Nurkic, Mann, Collins, Covington, etc., is a playoff team. It's not a title contender, but it's a playoff team. That deal would also give Portland options. The Trailblazers are the only show in town, so it keeps the team competitive but also gives them legit veterans (PG, McCollum, Nurkic) that they can flip to contenders for youth/picks later. If I’m Portland I am no better off then a 7 seed…I just do a 3 way and have PG go somewhere for picks and young assets and I completely rebuild. That team is not getting past GS, LAC, LAL, PHX, Utah, Den. You trade Lillard you blow it up. Only reason why you probably would be right is they are trying to sell the team…which is another reason I don’t think they will give up Lillard. Edited July 17, 2021 by dgambill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, dgambill said: If I’m Portland I am no better off then a 7 seed…I just do a 3 way and have PG go somewhere for picks and young assets and I completely rebuild. That team is not getting past GS, LAC, LAL, PHX, Utah, Den. You trade Lillard you blow it up. Only reason why you probably would be right is they are trying to sell the team…which is another reason I don’t think they will give up Lillard. Portland is a little different than other franchises though. There is a bit of a Green Packers element. They're the only game in town and have almost always (keyword almost) tried to retool or rebuild while still remaining competitive. A trade for PG and Mann allows them to do that. They can always still flip PG, McCollum and Nurkic for young guys and picks later. Of course, it would all come down to what other teams are offering for Lillard. Simmons from Philly or Jaylen Brown from Boston, for example, sort of kills both birds with one stone. It just comes down to what is being offered and what Portland is looking to accomplish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, dgambill said: I think they will target guys like Lillard, Beal, KAT but in the end I don’t think 14 gets them anything. Actually I could see them keeping it. 7 is not in that top tier of players. The guys 7-12 are basically equal. It’s Wiseman they are giving up…and yes Wiggins but what Wiggins used to be is irrelevant. He is a known commodity. He isn’t an all star caliber player and doesn’t project to be. He isn’t a dud either but let’s not act like he is looked like a #1 in any trade…it’s way past that now. Wiseman is the asset…Wiggins is the starting caliber player as salary filler and the pick is the juice. I didn’t remember putting 14 in the deal I think I left it over from the Minny deal I did for KAT. There aren’t many front court all stars I think they can add…I was surprised they didn’t move for Vucevic before the Bulls did last year. Probably could have been had for Wiseman plus Oubre and salary alone. But at this point I think Pacers have some interesting pieces to offer several championship caliber teams if they want to rebuild/retool. What I don't understand is why the Pacers would retool if they have all of these guys who are worth so much? I think Sabonis and Levert are the only guys we have with real value, maybe Brogdon too. Part of the Pacers problem with every single guy they have sans Turner is they're poor to average defenders. When you look at both teams on the Finals the guys I would consider their third options on offense (what any Pacer would be on a title team) they are all plus defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 46 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: What I don't understand is why the Pacers would retool if they have all of these guys who are worth so much? I think Sabonis and Levert are the only guys we have with real value, maybe Brogdon too. Part of the Pacers problem with every single guy they have sans Turner is they're poor to average defenders. When you look at both teams on the Finals the guys I would consider their third options on offense (what any Pacer would be on a title team) they are all plus defenders. You said it. They are a poor fit together. They don’t compliment one another. The Pacers have been simply been forced into the best trades they can get and still be competitive scenarios. First PG and then Vic. They also have basically signed the best talent they can get in free agency since they can’t get a star. What they have are good to a couple great pieces they don’t compliment one another. They’ve basically defaulted to acquiring best player available but without a coherent fit to one another. They honestly need a complete retool or rebuild. They aren’t going to just be able to trade one or two guys and suddenly have a ECF team. They have probably the deepest team 1-10 in the East but the parts don’t equal the sum. All their guys are really good at one or two things but not great all around players too. They have a team full of trade potential because teams that are missing that one or two pieces can go to the Pacers who have a plethora of good talent on good contracts. To me this is a team that could net themselves a ton of draft picks and set themselves up like OKC in a few years if they wanted. But that just isn’t how the Pacers opperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 hour ago, BGleas said: Portland is a little different than other franchises though. There is a bit of a Green Packers element. They're the only game in town and have almost always (keyword almost) tried to retool or rebuild while still remaining competitive. A trade for PG and Mann allows them to do that. They can always still flip PG, McCollum and Nurkic for young guys and picks later. Of course, it would all come down to what other teams are offering for Lillard. Simmons from Philly or Jaylen Brown from Boston, for example, sort of kills both birds with one stone. It just comes down to what is being offered and what Portland is looking to accomplish. If I’m Portland I don’t trade Lillard for anything. Especially if I want to keep the team value high to sell. If I have to move him I want as many young star potential players now and draft picks. Maybe I’m just soured on PG but I just don’t think he is going to cut it. He doesn’t really extend my window in that he is also 31…and honestly has peaked already. I think you have to move him in a 3 team deal. Maybe Miami makes some moves to get some draft capital and then you ship him there. Maybe Houston would want him. All I know is I just got worse and Clippers have no draft capital since they sent it all to OKC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, dgambill said: You said it. They are a poor fit together. They don’t compliment one another. The Pacers have been simply been forced into the best trades they can get and still be competitive scenarios. First PG and then Vic. They also have basically signed the best talent they can get in free agency since they can’t get a star. What they have are good to a couple great pieces they don’t compliment one another. They’ve basically defaulted to acquiring best player available but without a coherent fit to one another. They honestly need a complete retool or rebuild. They aren’t going to just be able to trade one or two guys and suddenly have a ECF team. They have probably the deepest team 1-10 in the East but the parts don’t equal the sum. All their guys are really good at one or two things but not great all around players too. They have a team full of trade potential because teams that are missing that one or two pieces can go to the Pacers who have a plethora of good talent on good contracts. To me this is a team that could net themselves a ton of draft picks and set themselves up like OKC in a few years if they wanted. But that just isn’t how the Pacers opperate. I don’t think we totally disagree or anything, i just think you're overrating or overvaluing what the Pacers can get with their assets. OKC was flipping Russell Westbrook and Paul George for assets, the Pacers don't have anyone remotely on that level. I don't think Sabonis and Warren is going to net the Pacers Wiseman and 1-2 additional lottery picks. Wiseman is like a lottery ticket that GS is holding onto and they'll cash it in for the most value possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 minute ago, BGleas said: I don’t think we totally disagree or anything, i just think you're overrating or overvaluing what the Pacers can get with their assets. OKC was flipping Russell Westbrook and Paul George for assets, the Pacers don't have anyone remotely on that level. I don't think Sabonis and Warren is going to net the Pacers Wiseman and 1-2 additional lottery picks. Wiseman is like a lottery ticket that GS is holding onto and they'll cash it in for the most value possible. I think GS will hold on for a star player. Maybe Lillard. maybe Kawhi opts out or forces a trade and they do a sign & trade with the Clippers. They have a better offer than anyone else could make. I’d be more interested in a Boston package then Clippers If I’m Portland. Robert Williams plus Brown plus a boat load of picks sounds better than a 31 year old PG. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 54 minutes ago, dgambill said: I think GS will hold on for a star player. Maybe Lillard. maybe Kawhi opts out or forces a trade and they do a sign & trade with the Clippers. They have a better offer than anyone else could make. I’d be more interested in a Boston package then Clippers If I’m Portland. Robert Williams plus Brown plus a boat load of picks sounds better than a 31 year old PG. Agree on both. GS is looking for another star. I'd take a deal with Boston if I'm Portland too, just depends on what Portland is looking to accomish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 I saw an article about the Celtics trying to trade for a 6th man. It was all complete speculation and made up trades, not informed intel. With that said since most here are Pacers fans and I'm a Celtics fan, one of the proposed trades is below.. Celtics get: TJ Warren Pacers get: Tristan Thompson, Romeo Langford and a 2024 1st round pick Not sure I love that for either team. I guess for the Celtics you get a cheaper replacement for Evan Fournier, but you have to give up Langford and a 1st rounder for it. It could be interesting if Boston then worked out a sign and trade with Fournier to add even more depth with a couple players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 When this Bucks team gets going they are unbelievably lethal. They don't have the consistency that we see from the great championship teams, but they're best game is amazing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 hours ago, BGleas said: I saw an article about the Celtics trying to trade for a 6th man. It was all complete speculation and made up trades, not informed intel. With that said since most here are Pacers fans and I'm a Celtics fan, one of the proposed trades is below.. Celtics get: TJ Warren Pacers get: Tristan Thompson, Romeo Langford and a 2024 1st round pick Not sure I love that for either team. I guess for the Celtics you get a cheaper replacement for Evan Fournier, but you have to give up Langford and a 1st rounder for it. It could be interesting if Boston then worked out a sign and trade with Fournier to add even more depth with a couple players. As a Pacer I take it reluctantly if I can’t make a better move. Warren has the ability to fill it up but I don’t think we can afford him after this year anyways. I also think we need to upgrade our defense. I think Romeo could help us at the defensive end and while I’m not sure if he is going to get his game together he is still very young and has potential. The pick will be in the 20s likely but can always be used in trade capital later. Warren is by far the best player in the trade and at the moment you get the better of the deal. Until you get a point guard I’m not sure your trade capital would be best spent towards upgrading your bench. I don’t think the Pacers would do it though…they want to compete now…but I would be looking long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 23 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: When this Bucks team gets going they are unbelievably lethal. They don't have the consistency that we see from the great championship teams, but they're best game is amazing. I don’t know how you stop Giannis when he is getting downhill. The bucks just feel like they are inevitable…like this has been coming for awhile…and they finally arrived. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Wow!! He’s a freak! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Wow, Jrue Holiday. Heck of a defensive play and then great pass to Giannis for the oop dunk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Then Holiday tips the Giannis missed free throw for Milwaukee to get the offensive rebound. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Bucks free throws are killing them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, BGleas said: Wow, Jrue Holiday. Heck of a defensive play and then great pass to Giannis for the oop dunk. Yep first the block last game and now the Holiday strip and oop…those are championship plays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 minute ago, dgambill said: Yep first the block last game and now the Holiday strip and oop…those are championship plays. Yup, and a horrible foul by Chris Paul. Even with the oop, its still a one possession game. But he fouls and then they give up the offensive rebound on the missed free throw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Holiday, Middleton, and Giannis…When they all play well for the Bucks not sure who beats them. Impressive Suns even had a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 minute ago, BGleas said: Yup, and a horrible foul by Chris Paul. Even with the oop, its still a one possession game. But he fouls and then they give up the offensive rebound on the missed free throw. Agreed. Honestly to me that’s a flagrant foul. Not a play on the ball. Doesn’t matter someone doesn’t get hurt…they could have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Hard time seeing Bucks not closing this one out. Seems like they have the rock rolling downhill now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 24 minutes ago, dgambill said: Agreed. Honestly to me that’s a flagrant foul. Not a play on the ball. Doesn’t matter someone doesn’t get hurt…they could have. I thought the same. Really should have been flagrant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 10 hours ago, BGleas said: I thought the same. Really should have been flagrant. It really was awful. I'm sure that it won't happen, but if I were in charge, I would have to think long and hard about suspending him for game 6. There is no more vulnerable player in basketball than a guy going up like that, you can't purposely shove him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 54 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: It really was awful. I'm sure that it won't happen, but if I were in charge, I would have to think long and hard about suspending him for game 6. There is no more vulnerable player in basketball than a guy going up like that, you can't purposely shove him. No way. It was possibly a flagrant 1 but you don't get suspended for that. Are you going to suspend Giannis for hitting Booker while he was airborn in the first quarter during a dead ball? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 I do not care for current NBA uniform designs. Kinda cartoonish imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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