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8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Location definitely plays a factor, but I also view the Pacers as a franchise that is going to pretty much play it safe financially and not willing to go "all in" when it comes to the luxury tax when they have a chance to go for it. 

The Pacers "joined" the NBA for the '76-'77 season.  I wonder if they have the most play-off appearances in that time frame without winning a title?

Edited by rico
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11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Location definitely plays a factor, but I also view the Pacers as a franchise that is going to pretty much play it safe financially and not willing to go "all in" when it comes to the luxury tax when they have a chance to go for it. 

agree, they missed their chance when they went to the ECF against Miami and Lebron

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11 hours ago, IU Scott said:

PJ Tucker at 2/15 and signed Butler to a max extension.

I guess it is just frustrating as a Pacers fan this time of the year.  When you know they won't go over the salary cap and see all of these other teams making huge signings is just frustrating

 

Pacers don't have any max contracts but they have almost all their money tied up into "good" level starters. Turner-19 mill, Sabonis-18, Brogdon-22, Levert-17, Warren-12, Lamb-10, McConnell-9, Holiday-6, Craig-5 ....that's 118 million right there not counting rookie scale guys and vet mins. Miami is said to be sitting at 133 million (luxury kicks in at 138?) everyone included so that's probably pretty close to us.  They have just put most their salary into a few players...Butler, Lowry, Bam and Robinson.....Herro is on a rookie salary but basically everyone else is 7 or less. We have just spread out ours over 7 guys as opposed to them basically 4 but there isn't much difference. Problem is we have Lamb giving us nothing....Warren gave us nothing last year...Levert was out most the year last year and so did Myles. Our back up pg is getting paid handsomely. We have good players but not really great ones....so you could say we are getting what we pay for....but we just have no one that can take over a game and take us to victory. A team that would hope to kill you with a thousand paper cuts. Very scary team indeed! Without a true star (and I don't consider Sabonis that) this team is just not going to be a top tier team.

In conclusion the Pacers need to move off Lamb contract if possible and likely move one or two of their starters if they want to add a real difference maker.

Edited by dgambill
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3 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Like the pacers news.  TJ brings defense intensity.  He can't shoot threes, however, surrounding him with guys that are respectable 3pt shooters such as Justin Holiday/Torrey Craig/Duarte/Oshae is good.  Pacers def wanted to re-establish some sort of defense presence and they did that with their moves yesterday evening.  

Brogdon/LeVert/Warren/Sabonis/Turner

McConnell/Holiday/Duarte/Craig/Oshae/Goga

None of those guys scare me if I'm a playoff team. Good sure....but nothing scary at all.

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44 minutes ago, rico said:

The Pacers "joined" the NBA for the '76-'77 season.  I wonder if they have the most play-off appearances in that time frame without winning a title?

Since 98 the Bulls, Bucks, Pistons, and Cavs have all won an NBA title......Pacers have not.

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41 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

agree, they missed their chance when they went to the ECF against Miami and Lebron

Pacers have gone over the luxury tax 3 times....last time in 05-06. Funny enough under Rick Carlisle.....of course that was in the Malice years and it went wasted.

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My biggest issue with the Pacers is they have value guys like McDermott and say TJ Warren this year that they will let play out their contract and get nothing for them even when they know they won't be able to afford to keep them. They don't really do many sign/trades....they just ride the contract out and think they will get people to come play here in free agency. Nobody wants to come to the Pacers...the couple times they might have had a chance when PG was here and they had a star they did nothing with it. Now we haven't won a playoff series in 7 years...we aren't even a winning franchise in guys eyes anymore....we once could say we competed come playoff time. 

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7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Since 98 the Bulls, Bucks, Pistons, and Cavs have all won an NBA title......Pacers have not.

According to what I am "seeing" the Pacers have appeared in the play-offs 27 times in 45 seasons in the NBA.  

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2 minutes ago, rico said:

According to what I am "seeing" the Pacers have appeared in the play-offs 27 times in 45 seasons in the NBA.  

They are a very successful (winning) organization. They just haven't been able to win it all. I think they have had some golden opportunities and for whatever reason some bad karma (Artest). Mostly it is just running into legends of the game. First Jordan, then Shaq, then Lebron....in the end there is likely always going to be a star studded team to get through. When you have a really really good team...you have to do everything to maximize it and go all in. Pacers rarely do that.

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Considering the screwing the ABA teams that "merged" with the NBA took in the transition, it's a wonder any of them have been successful...

The ABA folks that made out were the owners of The Spirits of St Louis...

They received $2.2 million dollars and 1/7 of a share of each of the four remaining ABA (now NBA) teams’ television rights in perpetuity to fold their franchise...

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I'll say this about Miami, I think they'll regret these deals in a year or two. They have a lot of money tied up in aging 2nd tier stars. 

Jimmy Butler has already shown signs of slowing down (his 3pt % has been going back down) and Kyle Lowry is certainly on his back 9. 

As mentioned, I don't think this is a group that gets by Brooklyn or Milwaukee, and potentially even Philly or Atlanta, etc. 

So by this time next summer or the following year they may be desperately looking to offload these contracts. 

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4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'll say this about Miami, I think they'll regret these deals in a year or two. They have a lot of money tied up in aging 2nd tier stars. 

Jimmy Butler has already shown signs of slowing down (his 3pt % has been going back down) and Kyle Lowry is certainly on his back 9. 

As mentioned, I don't think this is a group that gets by Brooklyn or Milwaukee, and potentially even Philly or Atlanta, etc. 

So by this time next summer or the following year they may be desperately looking to offload these contracts. 

Don't fret, there will be teams out there that gobble them up.

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40 minutes ago, dgambill said:

They are a very successful (winning) organization. They just haven't been able to win it all. I think they have had some golden opportunities and for whatever reason some bad karma (Artest). Mostly it is just running into legends of the game. First Jordan, then Shaq, then Lebron....in the end there is likely always going to be a star studded team to get through. When you have a really really good team...you have to do everything to maximize it and go all in. Pacers rarely do that.

There was a time when I would have bet the farm that Tisdale was gonna be a NBA legend.  Good thing I didn't bet the farm...

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35 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Considering the screwing the ABA teams that "merged" with the NBA took in the transition, it's a wonder any of them have been successful...

The ABA folks that made out were the owners of The Spirits of St Louis...

They received $2.2 million dollars and 1/7 of a share of each of the four remaining ABA (now NBA) teams’ television rights in perpetuity to fold their franchise...

That was one of the greatest deals/heists of all time. There were 3 ABA teams left out of the NBA. The Virginia Squires abruptly folded at the end of the last ABA season and received nothing, Kentucky Colonels received 3.3 million from the NBA but the Silna brothers, owners of the St Louis Spirits, negotiated the TV rights (which weren’t much back then) in perpetuity deal.  Through roughly 2014 they had been paid 300 million per the agreement. In 2014 the NBA negotiated a buyout to end the deal and the brothers were paid an additional 500 million for a total of 800,000,000 !

Scorecard:

Virginia - 0

Kensucky - 3,300,000

St Louis - 800,000,000

Edited by IU878176
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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Location definitely plays a factor, but I also view the Pacers as a franchise that is going to pretty much play it safe financially and not willing to go "all in" when it comes to the luxury tax when they have a chance to go for it. 

I don't think even if they were willing to over pay that they would get top free agents to come.

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23 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'll say this about Miami, I think they'll regret these deals in a year or two. They have a lot of money tied up in aging 2nd tier stars. 

Jimmy Butler has already shown signs of slowing down (his 3pt % has been going back down) and Kyle Lowry is certainly on his back 9. 

As mentioned, I don't think this is a group that gets by Brooklyn or Milwaukee, and potentially even Philly or Atlanta, etc. 

So by this time next summer or the following year they may be desperately looking to offload these contracts. 

They have a very small window for sure! Unfortunately to get people to come you have to be willing to pay out the big $$$ and roll that dice that when the window closes...you are going to suck for several years and have to tear it down and rebuild with draft picks if you have them. That is what small market teams can usually not afford to do...because so much revenue comes from filling the seats. Interesting that OKC is going that route....but I suspect they are about done in the pick acquisition face and after this year they will begin to try to build up a winner again.

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5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I don't think even if they were willing to over pay that they would get top free agents to come.

Who was the biggest free agent we have acquired? Look at this list and tell me how you expect to win a title when this is the best you can get.  1. David West 2. Bojan Bogdanovic 3. CJ Miles 4. Darren Collinson 5. Tyreke Evans  Let's be real...that is pretty dang sad those are the top free agent signings in the past 15 years.

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15 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

That was one of the greatest deals/heists of all time. There were 3 ABA teams left out of the NBA. The Virginia Squires abruptly folded at the end of the last ABA season and received nothing, Kentucky Colonels received 3.3 million from the NBA but the Silna brothers, owners of the St Louis Spirits, negotiated the TV rights (which weren’t much back then) in perpetuity deal.  Through roughly 2014 they had been paid 300 million per the agreement. In 2014 the NBA negotiated a buyout to end the deal and the brothers were paid an additional 500 million for a total of 800,000,000 !

Scorecard:

Virginia - 0

Kensucky - 3,300,000

St Louis - 800,000,000

Never knew that! That was an awesome story! Love the little guy winning over a deal with the big dawgs lol.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Who was the biggest free agent we have acquired? Look at this list and tell me how you expect to win a title when this is the best you can get.  1. David West 2. Bojan Bogdanovic 3. CJ Miles 4. Darren Collinson 5. Tyreke Evans  Let's be real...that is pretty dang sad those are the top free agent signings in the past 15 years.

Did a sign and trade for Brogdon

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Just now, IU Scott said:

Did a sign and trade for Brogdon

Still a trade....but I guess that might be the best one...which is still pretty sad. Brogdon is a solid player but not close to even an all star...and took the deal because he wanted the big pay day we offered for him. I guarantee if we opened up 40 million for a max level player to come here if they wanted no Kawhi, no Durant, no Anthony Davis etc etc would do it. Even when we have a star player they want to leave. PG....then we had an injured Victor Oladipo that we offered 4 yr 113 million and he still moved on....and now he will likely not even get signed. Maybe looking at 1 yr 4 million is the word. Guy passed up a 100 million to get away from us.

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Location definitely plays a factor, but I also view the Pacers as a franchise that is going to pretty much play it safe financially and not willing to go "all in" when it comes to the luxury tax when they have a chance to go for it. 

They have shown this to be their MO for quite some time now. Sad thing is that if this is how they're going to do it, their draft strategy should be looking at the highest ceiling/risky prospects trying to find the next Giannis/PG/Jokic/etc instead of continuing to take the most ready now guys like Duarte/Hansborough/etc. 

I don't care who the coach/GM/etc is, they're not going to win a championship without hitting on a star draft pick (or more). If they just want to make the playoffs every year and advance once in awhile then keep doing what they're doing.

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Inside the Hall reported that Cody signed for the veteran minimum of 2.33 million bucks.  Hope Portland has a good season as he really wanted to be with a good team.

On a side note…..He took a huge pay cut but still not too shabby to be in your 20’s making over 2,000,000!! If he has a good season I’ll bet he will be able to cash in with a 3 year, at 8-10mm annually, type of deal. In any case, best of luck to him.

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52 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I don't think even if they were willing to over pay that they would get top free agents to come.

It's not all about free agents, it's about spending when you have the opportunity to make a trade or do a sign and trade. It's about using all of the exceptions you have at your deposit, etc. 

Also, if the Pacers were all in on contending then free agents would come. Free agents have gone to Cleveland, OKC, Utah, Denver, etc., when those franchises have been dedicated to winning. 

 

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3 hours ago, dgambill said:

Since 98 the Bulls, Bucks, Pistons, and Cavs have all won an NBA title......Pacers have not.

Well to be fair three of those teams won them with an all time great player. If Lebron wasn't from Akron, Cleveland wouldn't have one, and if the Bulls didn't luck into Jordan they wouldn't have any. Also the Greek Freak looks like he is on the way to an all time great. If the Pacers had a chance at any of those players they would have multple titles also.

Edited by Hoosier51
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58 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's not all about free agents, it's about spending when you have the opportunity to make a trade or do a sign and trade. It's about using all of the exceptions you have at your deposit, etc. 

Also, if the Pacers were all in on contending then free agents would come. Free agents have gone to Cleveland, OKC, Utah, Denver, etc., when those franchises have been dedicated to winning. 

 

Guys go where they feel a championship is on the horizon...history shows that.

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