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1 minute ago, Hoosier51 said:

Well to be fair three of those teams won them with an all time great player. If Lebron wasn't from Akron Cleveland wouldn't have one, and if the Trailblazers weren't so stupid and drafted Jordan instead Chicago wouldn't have any. Also the Greek Freak looks like he is on the way to an all time great. If the Pacers had a chance at any of those players they would have multple titles also.

If Portland was stupid then so was Houston...

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1 minute ago, rico said:

Guys go where they feel a championship is on the horizon...history shows that.

Exactly. While market certainly plays a part, when/if the Pacers are contenders then they'll get free agents or the veteran guys willing to take less to be a part of the team type of guys, etc. 

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7 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

Well to be fair three of those teams won them with an all time great player. If Lebron wasn't from Akron Cleveland wouldn't have one, and if the Trailblazers weren't so stupid and drafted Jordan instead Chicago wouldn't have any. Also the Greek Freak looks like he is on the way to an all time great. If the Pacers had a chance at any of those players they would have multple titles also.

I think the point being...we have to find ways to get such players. It ain't happening in free agency. You need mulitple bites at the apple to get on of these players and when you are fortunate enough to find one (PG) you do everything you can to get them help (see the Bucks). When you see a guy that you think might have "it" you move up in the draft and get him. We do a very poor job drafting imo. It isn't just who can you get at your pick....sometimes it is who can you move up to and sell some of your veteran starting players to go get one. I really think the Bender thing scared us off....when we should be trying to do MORE of that not less. Donovan Mitchell is there at 13...Devin Booker there at 13....guys maybe that fall out of the top 3 or 4 or even if a guy is there maybe you come off starting talent to indentify and go get them. I don't expect we know EVERY star in the making but we got to start doing a better job at moving up and getting one if we aren't going to just tear it all down and rebuild. You can acquire talent in other ways...but for a small market cold weather team...you are probably going to have to draft them if you are going to get them....or at very least make trade your ready to win now guys for very young players with upside. I just don't see going the way we are going and thinking the stars are just all going to align someday and we luck into a championship.

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22 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think the point being...we have to find ways to get such players. It ain't happening in free agency. You need mulitple bites at the apple to get on of these players and when you are fortunate enough to find one (PG) you do everything you can to get them help (see the Bucks). When you see a guy that you think might have "it" you move up in the draft and get him. We do a very poor job drafting imo. It isn't just who can you get at your pick....sometimes it is who can you move up to and sell some of your veteran starting players to go get one. I really think the Bender thing scared us off....when we should be trying to do MORE of that not less. Donovan Mitchell is there at 13...Devin Booker there at 13....guys maybe that fall out of the top 3 or 4 or even if a guy is there maybe you come off starting talent to indentify and go get them. I don't expect we know EVERY star in the making but we got to start doing a better job at moving up and getting one if we aren't going to just tear it all down and rebuild. You can acquire talent in other ways...but for a small market cold weather team...you are probably going to have to draft them if you are going to get them....or at very least make trade your ready to win now guys for very young players with upside. I just don't see going the way we are going and thinking the stars are just all going to align someday and we luck into a championship.

Amen...the Pacers need to grow some balls and throw the dice.  Better to try and fail than never try at all.

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34 minutes ago, rico said:

Amen...the Pacers need to grow some balls and throw the dice.  Better to try and fail than never try at all.

Is growing balls really a prerequisite for throwing dice.  I have seen some pretty hot ladies at the Craps table who I'm pretty sure were not packing.

Edited by 5fouls
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2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Is growing balls really a prerequisite for throwing dice.  I have seen some pretty hot ladies at the Craps table who I'm pretty sure were not packing.

Now dammit, you knew what I was saying.  And tell your son to leave me a piece of pizza.

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36 minutes ago, rico said:

Amen...the Pacers need to grow some balls and throw the dice.  Better to try and fail than never try at all.

Right. Say for instance we really thought Jalen Suggs will be a star some day. Well then maybe we should have made attempts to move up with Orlando when he slipped past Toronto. Maybe you move Brogdon or Warren or some combo to move up the board or for draft picks we can flip to Orlando....just using this as an example. When you identify a player that you think possesses this special talent and can be one of those franchise players I think you got to get creative to go and get one...then hope you can build a team around them such another would want to come join them or they get enough help to do it on their own. We just either don't identify these talents very well or we don't have the balls as you say to go after them.

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7 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Is growing balls really a prerequisite for throwing dice.  I have seen some pretty hot ladies at the Craps table who I'm pretty sure were not packing.

Maybe we are starting to figure out why you have so many marriage issues. Finding women at the Casino when money and drinks are flowing might explain a bit why so many wives lol. It probably beats meeting them at the club though lol!

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49 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think the point being...we have to find ways to get such players. It ain't happening in free agency. You need mulitple bites at the apple to get on of these players and when you are fortunate enough to find one (PG) you do everything you can to get them help (see the Bucks). When you see a guy that you think might have "it" you move up in the draft and get him. We do a very poor job drafting imo. It isn't just who can you get at your pick....sometimes it is who can you move up to and sell some of your veteran starting players to go get one. I really think the Bender thing scared us off....when we should be trying to do MORE of that not less. Donovan Mitchell is there at 13...Devin Booker there at 13....guys maybe that fall out of the top 3 or 4 or even if a guy is there maybe you come off starting talent to indentify and go get them. I don't expect we know EVERY star in the making but we got to start doing a better job at moving up and getting one if we aren't going to just tear it all down and rebuild. You can acquire talent in other ways...but for a small market cold weather team...you are probably going to have to draft them if you are going to get them....or at very least make trade your ready to win now guys for very young players with upside. I just don't see going the way we are going and thinking the stars are just all going to align someday and we luck into a championship.

  With PG, who will never be a #1 on a championship team, we ran into Lebron so short of bringing in KD the Pacers werent getting pass him. Also the Bucks got lucky this year with all the injuries, so lets see how they move forward. Pacers have had a lot of obstacles to overcome for a championship, from the almost impossible task of getting past Jordan, Lebron and Shaq to the Malice in the Palace which i thought they would have won it all that year. I know there is an occasional team that might win it without an all time great player but that list is short. Those players don't just grow on trees lol.

Now i do agree that the Pacers drafting has been pretty subpar lately though.

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5 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

  With PG, who will never be a #1 on a championship team, we ran into Lebron so short of bringing in KD the Pacers werent getting pass him. Also the Bucks got lucky this year with all the injuries, so lets see how they move forward. Pacers have had a lot of obstacles to overcome for a championship, from the almost impossible task of getting past Jordan, Lebron and Shaq to the Malice in the Palace which i thought they would have won it all that year. I know there is an occasional team that might win it without an all time great player but that list is short. Those players don't just grow on trees lol.

Now i do agree that the Pacers drafting has been pretty subpar lately though.

All 3 losses to Lebron and the Heat I thought we were very much in those series. Very capable of beating them with one more all-star caliber scorer....say the old Danny Granger before his injury...sadly he just wasn't ever himself. But instead of bringing in say Evan Turner if we could have brought in another scoring option to help PG....it could have been different. We just lacked the offensive firepower to get over the top. To think during those years the biggest move we made was Evan Turner and Luis Scola....those were suppose to put us over the top.

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22 minutes ago, dgambill said:

All 3 losses to Lebron and the Heat I thought we were very much in those series. Very capable of beating them with one more all-star caliber scorer....say the old Danny Granger before his injury...sadly he just wasn't ever himself. But instead of bringing in say Evan Turner if we could have brought in another scoring option to help PG....it could have been different. We just lacked the offensive firepower to get over the top. To think during those years the biggest move we made was Evan Turner and Luis Scola....those were suppose to put us over the top.

You got me on an "irk" of mine.  There is no NBA specific HoF.  People talk "Batman" and "Robin" or #1 and #2.  On merits alone Paul George would be a 1st ballot NBA HoFer.  The Pacers have had very few of those "types."  

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The spurs crushed Miami in 2014 and had them on ropes for the title in Game 6 of 2013 but let it get away.  Not sure the pacers beat that spurs team. 

I think the 98-2000 years were their best shot.  the 98 team was close to knocking out the Bulls for a meeting with the Jazz.  They may have had their best chance vs the Spurs in 99 but choked to Grand mama and the Knicks.  The spurs dominated teams with Duncan and Robinson.  Pacers with the Davis boys might have been able to match up better than other teams that year that played the Spurs.   The Lakers were to much for them in 2000 but I think Portland was close to knocking LA out in the WCF. 

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4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

All 3 losses to Lebron and the Heat I thought we were very much in those series. Very capable of beating them with one more all-star caliber scorer....say the old Danny Granger before his injury...sadly he just wasn't ever himself. But instead of bringing in say Evan Turner if we could have brought in another scoring option to help PG....it could have been different. We just lacked the offensive firepower to get over the top. To think during those years the biggest move we made was Evan Turner and Luis Scola....those were suppose to put us over the top.

Both turned out to be flops instead of over the top.

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2 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

The spurs crushed Miami in 2014 and had them on ropes for the title in Game 6 of 2013 but let it get away.  Not sure the pacers beat that spurs team. 

I think the 98-2000 years were their best shot.  the 98 team was close to knocking out the Bulls for a meeting with the Jazz.  They may have had their best chance vs the Spurs in 99 but choked to Grand mama and the Knicks.  The spurs dominated teams with Duncan and Robinson.  Pacers with the Davis boys might have been able to match up better than other teams that year that played the Spurs.   The Lakers were to much for them in 2000 but I think Portland was close to knocking LA out in the WCF. 

The world of what if's lol....yes indeed. Could we have played with those Spurs and matched up better? Would West been a better matchup against Duncan? Would Kawhi shut down PG? Could our guards held down Manu and Parker with George Hill and Lance Stevenson better than Miami....well anyways I think the point again is to go all in...mortgage the future and take your chance in sports....after all..we haven't won a playoff series since....imagine if we would have been willing to trade 3 future draft picks and a role player or something to bring in a guy that could have helped us then....might have made all the difference. The fact we just won't take those risks are why we sit where we are....competitive but rarely contenders.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

We just lacked the offensive firepower to get over the top. To think during those years the biggest move we made was Evan Turner and Luis Scola....those were suppose to put us over the top.

 

 Like i said i don't think we were going to beat Lebron no matter what unless we brought in someone like KD or another player at that level, which wasn't going to happen. They also brought in David West around that time which you forgot to mention.

Edited by Hoosier51
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Since 1994 the Pacers been have to the eastern conference finals 7 times and also the finals once, two of those losses were to Shaq and two were to Lebron and also one to Jordan, short of a miracle they weren't winning those. So it's not like they haven't tried to win a championship,  they just happen to run into a Hall of Famer on a few of those occasions. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

 Like i said i don't think we were going to beat Lebron no matter what unless we brought in someone like KD or another player at that level, which wasn't going to happen. They also brought in David West around that time which you forgot to mention.

I get at what your saying but I don't buy into that kind of belief. That is a defeatist attitude. We can't get by Lebron. We couldn't get by Jordan. You don't know if you don't give it your best shot. I'd say we probably did that during the Jordan years.....not during the West/PG years.

David West was on the team before they made that run the start of 2011. I'm saying once they saw they had a team capable of winning the East at the end of that season and especially going into and during the following two seasons all efforts should have been made to bring in another star caliber talent. They essentially made a couple tweeks around the edges but just ran it back 3 years in a row...and even after it...their big move after they bottomed out and let West go they brought in Monta Ellis?! Yuk. They basically didn't give PG the help he needed and he grew resentful and moved on. They never swung for the fences they never even went into the luxury tax during that stretch. Doesn't matter if the window was during Lebron's greatness...that was still OUR window too in that decade...so you make a swing at it. It may not have turned out well....still might have lost or done worse...but I just don't think we did our best in the front office...and it isn't like dragging this stuff out has done us any favors. We haven't won a playoff series since. We could have done a complete rebuild since then if we had gone all in.

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3 hours ago, dgambill said:

I get at what your saying but I don't buy into that kind of belief. That is a defeatist attitude. We can't get by Lebron. We couldn't get by Jordan. You don't know if you don't give it your best shot. I'd say we probably did that during the Jordan years.....not during the West/PG years.

It's not a defeatist attitude it is reality. You keep saying you have to give it your best shot, we can say go get these players but they have to want to come to INDY, and there has to be a willing trade partner to do it. Also we won't get started on PG13, he states he wants to bring a championship to Indy then just right after that ask to be traded. Maybe he could have waited to see what happened instead of bailing right away. Also he asked to be traded from OKC so i am not sure he can be pleased. Maybe he will get a championship with Westbrook, or i mean Leonard, oops nope not with them. 

Getting me started on Regular Season G triggers me a little bit lol. 😀

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