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1 hour ago, Hoosier51 said:

It's not a defeatist attitude it is reality. You keep saying you have to give it your best shot, we can say go get these players but they have to want to come to INDY, and there has to be a willing trade partner to do it. Also we won't get started on PG13, he states he wants to bring a chamionship to Indy then just right after that ask to be traded. Maybe he could have waited to see what happened instead of bailing right away. Also he asked to be traded from OKC so i am not sure he can be pleased. Maybe he will get a championship with Westbrook, or i mean Leonard, oops nope not with them. 

Getting me started on Regular Season G triggers me a little bit lol. 😀

In PG's defense, his claim is that he did want to stay and that the best power forward in the league (his words) called him and said he wanted to join him in Indy, and then when he brought it to the Pacers they told him they couldn't afford to make the move. 

I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is then I can't really blame him for changing course. 

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7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

In PG's defense, his claim is that he did want to stay and that the best power forward in the league (his words) called him and said he wanted to join him in Indy, and then when he brought it to the Pacers they told him they couldn't afford to make the move. 

I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is then I can't really blame him for changing course. 

Who would have been the best power foward at that time? Davis or maybe Griffin, if one of those wanted to actually join the Pacers i think they would have done whatever they could to get them.

I am very skeptical on it actually being true, especially since he left the Pacers we haven't heard about any power forward wanting to join him on teams with two of the best players in the league in Westbrook and Leonard.

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9 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

Who would have been the best power foward at that time? Davis or maybe Griffin, if one of those wanted to actually join the Pacers i think they would have done whatever they could to get them.

I am very skeptical on it actually being true, especially since he left the Pacers we haven't heard about any power forward wanting to join him on teams with two of the best players in the league in Westbrook and Leonard.

I tend to agree since it's PG and I find him to be pretty self-serving when he makes many of his comments on things. But with that said, i could see this being legit if the acquisition would put the Pacers over the luxury tax. 

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3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

But with that said, i could see this being legit if the acquisition would put the Pacers over the luxury tax. 

I know that they are pretty hesitant of going over the luxury tax, but they have been three times before so it's not like they never have. That is why i think if someone like Davis actually had wanted to join them they would have done it.

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18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I tend to agree since it's PG and I find him to be pretty self-serving when he makes many of his comments on things. But with that said, i could see this being legit if the acquisition would put the Pacers over the luxury tax. 

The problem with the Pacers is they get burnt on a deal and then they decide to spend the next 10 years avoiding the chance it happening again. Exhibit A Bender and B Austin Croshere and C Monta Ellis. Pacers just make a bad move and it seems to scare them off from making a similar move even when it would make the most sense. Probably throw Artest in there too. Very fearful of taking on young special talent that might be temperamental as well.

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So with the end of the first 48 hours I’d say these are my big winners and losers up to this point. I know it could change with a trade but just going off of this part of the offseason. 
 

Winners

Lakers-I suspect they still look to finish filling out the roster with vet min contracts but for a team that looked dead in the water going into free agency proved with Lebron on your team no move is impossible.  Defense will be a joke but combine their offense with the protection of nba officiating and they are assured to return to the the Western Conference finals. The landed Westbrook, Nunn, Carmelo, Howard, Bazemore, Ellington, and Ariza….how…who knows. Magical how everyone will play for free with Lebron banking on him making them look good and then turning it into a bigger payday elsewhere.

Heat-Lowry and Tucker bring tough minded defense and intensity and they didn’t give up any of their key core. I suspect a few moves to go as well.

Bulls-upgraded point with Lonzo Ball and Derozan make that a playoff caliber team..big upgrades. 
 

Losers- I have several

Dallas-They did nothing to help Luka…nothing significant at all.

Portland-Same…this should inspire Lillard??

Knicks-$$$ can’t buy good players buying in. Still can’t find a star willing to go there.

76ers-how can they run that team back after the fallout??

Spurs-Are they just ranking at this point?! 

GS- all that ammo and they shot a blank….Otto porter jr is the immediate help they landed??

Gotta be some big trades on the horizon for some of these losers to shake things up…just can’t see them standing pat while their stars play out their prime.
 

 

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2 hours ago, dgambill said:

So with the end of the first 48 hours I’d say these are my big winners and losers up to this point. I know it could change with a trade but just going off of this part of the offseason. 
 

Winners

Lakers-I suspect they still look to finish filling out the roster with vet min contracts but for a team that looked dead in the water going into free agency proved with Lebron on your team no move is impossible.  Defense will be a joke but combine their offense with the protection of nba officiating and they are assured to return to the the Western Conference finals. The landed Westbrook, Nunn, Carmelo, Howard, Bazemore, Ellington, and Ariza….how…who knows. Magical how everyone will play for free with Lebron banking on him making them look good and then turning it into a bigger payday elsewhere.

Heat-Lowry and Tucker bring tough minded defense and intensity and they didn’t give up any of their key core. I suspect a few moves to go as well.

Bulls-upgraded point with Lonzo Ball and Derozan make that a playoff caliber team..big upgrades. 
 

Losers- I have several

Dallas-They did nothing to help Luka…nothing significant at all.

Portland-Same…this should inspire Lillard??

Knicks-$$$ can’t buy good players buying in. Still can’t find a star willing to go there.

76ers-how can they run that team back after the fallout??

Spurs-Are they just ranking at this point?! 

GS- all that ammo and they shot a blank….Otto porter jr is the immediate help they landed??

Gotta be some big trades on the horizon for some of these losers to shake things up…just can’t see them standing pat while their stars play out their prime.
 

 

Wait.... why are the Lakers bad on defense? They had one of the best defense in the NBA last year. I'd be more worried about shooting than defense if I was the Lakers. 

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7 hours ago, dgambill said:

So with the end of the first 48 hours I’d say these are my big winners and losers up to this point. I know it could change with a trade but just going off of this part of the offseason. 
 

Winners

Lakers-I suspect they still look to finish filling out the roster with vet min contracts but for a team that looked dead in the water going into free agency proved with Lebron on your team no move is impossible.  Defense will be a joke but combine their offense with the protection of nba officiating and they are assured to return to the the Western Conference finals. The landed Westbrook, Nunn, Carmelo, Howard, Bazemore, Ellington, and Ariza….how…who knows. Magical how everyone will play for free with Lebron banking on him making them look good and then turning it into a bigger payday elsewhere.

Heat-Lowry and Tucker bring tough minded defense and intensity and they didn’t give up any of their key core. I suspect a few moves to go as well.

Bulls-upgraded point with Lonzo Ball and Derozan make that a playoff caliber team..big upgrades. 
 

Losers- I have several

Dallas-They did nothing to help Luka…nothing significant at all.

Portland-Same…this should inspire Lillard??

Knicks-$$$ can’t buy good players buying in. Still can’t find a star willing to go there.

76ers-how can they run that team back after the fallout??

Spurs-Are they just ranking at this point?! 

GS- all that ammo and they shot a blank….Otto porter jr is the immediate help they landed??

Gotta be some big trades on the horizon for some of these losers to shake things up…just can’t see them standing pat while their stars play out their prime.
 

 

agree with you really for all of you "winners" and "losers", however, except Chicago.  I like that they were active and wanting to upgrade their team.  I think they did BUT Lonzo/DeRonzen and Levine are all ball dominate guards that need the ball in their hands to be effective, moreso Lonzo and DeRozen.  I think they are a fringe playoff team.  

 

How do you not get help for Luka is my question.  Dame is gone after this year.  Philly may be good in regular season but there moves don't move the needle.  Knicks are laughable with their moves.  GS really hoping their rookies can play right away along with Wiseman.  Spurs i have no idea what their doing.  

 

I think pacers make a trade and ship Lamb out and maybe even one of turbonis.  With Thad going to Spurs and Doug signing there, I'd love for them to do a S&T with Doug for Thad.  Lamb, salary filler and maybe even a 2nd for Thad.  I don't think Spurs are ready to compete right now.  I think Thad flourished here in Indy.  Not sure the S&T would work though    

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6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Wait.... why are the Lakers bad on defense? They had one of the best defense in the NBA last year. I'd be more worried about shooting than defense if I was the Lakers. 

Because they basically traded away all their best defenders. Look at the guys they brought back and their ages and tell me which ones will be good defenders? They got ran off the floor by the Suns last year....they looked slow then...this is not going to be one of their strengths. Hard to say how good the offense will work inserting Russell Westbrook into it but they will not defend nearly as well as last year (which was still worse than their defense during their championship). They went from 3rd to 8th....and if you think they have a top 10 defense on paper with whom they brought in I'd have to say I don't see it. Will it be good enough based on the offensive upgrades...maybe.

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4 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

agree with you really for all of you "winners" and "losers", however, except Chicago.  I like that they were active and wanting to upgrade their team.  I think they did BUT Lonzo/DeRonzen and Levine are all ball dominate guards that need the ball in their hands to be effective, moreso Lonzo and DeRozen.  I think they are a fringe playoff team.  

 

How do you not get help for Luka is my question.  Dame is gone after this year.  Philly may be good in regular season but there moves don't move the needle.  Knicks are laughable with their moves.  GS really hoping their rookies can play right away along with Wiseman.  Spurs i have no idea what their doing.  

 

I think pacers make a trade and ship Lamb out and maybe even one of turbonis.  With Thad going to Spurs and Doug signing there, I'd love for them to do a S&T with Doug for Thad.  Lamb, salary filler and maybe even a 2nd for Thad.  I don't think Spurs are ready to compete right now.  I think Thad flourished here in Indy.  Not sure the S&T would work though    

I don't think the Bulls are a top 4 team or anything...I just commend them for seeing where they lack and saying we are making an effort to win games and be a playoff team. Lonzo, Caruso, and Demar are certainly better than what they've had running with Lavine and if Vucevic plays well that's a solid playoff team I think...maybe even beyond a play in team.  I do think they are one big time scoring (shooting) threat away from making some noise in the playoffs....and they have assets. If I'm not mistaken they still have Coby White/Patrick Williams when he comes back healthy and most of their future draft picks so they have room to make some moves still.

Dallas...ughh yes I would be dissapointed if I'm Luka. They better be selling him that they have a major move up there sleeve because other teams got better and they are at best a play in team on paper as of this moment. 

I think the Pacers would like to move Lamb but I doubt they can right now until they show he can be an asset to a playoff contender...so maybe by mid-season. I honestly don't like adding more veteran bench depth because we have some young assets on the bench like Duarte, Brissett, and others that showed last year they can contribute and need some time to grow their game too. I'd only make a move to upgrade a starting position so adding say Lamb or Justin Holiday to maybe Brogdon or Turner etc to upgrade our starting rotation. Spurs...yeah...I think they are going to go the OKC route. Drafted the youngest player in the draft that is a few years from helping....take on undesirable contracts for picks and rebuilding seems to be their M.O. the next couple years. If that is the case I think Pops might be looking to move to the front office maybe and they go with one of his proteges.

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38 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Because they basically traded away all their best defenders. Look at the guys they brought back and their ages and tell me which ones will be good defenders? They got ran off the floor by the Suns last year....they looked slow then...this is not going to be one of their strengths. Hard to say how good the offense will work inserting Russell Westbrook into it but they will not defend nearly as well as last year (which was still worse than their defense during their championship). They went from 3rd to 8th....and if you think they have a top 10 defense on paper with whom they brought in I'd have to say I don't see it. Will it be good enough based on the offensive upgrades...maybe.

I tend to agree on the Lakers defense. They lost arguably their two best perimeter defenders in Caruso and KCP, LeBron is basically on an as-needed basis as far as defense goes, Westbrook is a gambler on that end, etc. 

I could see them struggling a lot early defensively especially. 

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4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I tend to agree on the Lakers defense. They lost arguably their two best perimeter defenders in Caruso and KCP, LeBron is basically on an as-needed basis as far as defense goes, Westbrook is a gambler on that end, etc. 

I could see them struggling a lot early defensively especially. 

I’m not saying they’re going to be as good as last year, but they’re still going to have an elite interior defense at a minimum with guys on the perimeter who are capable of locking someone up even if they don’t do it for 48 minutes. 

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49 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Because they basically traded away all their best defenders. Look at the guys they brought back and their ages and tell me which ones will be good defenders? They got ran off the floor by the Suns last year....they looked slow then...this is not going to be one of their strengths. Hard to say how good the offense will work inserting Russell Westbrook into it but they will not defend nearly as well as last year (which was still worse than their defense during their championship). They went from 3rd to 8th....and if you think they have a top 10 defense on paper with whom they brought in I'd have to say I don't see it. Will it be good enough based on the offensive upgrades...maybe.

For one thing, the only bad defender I see getting consistent minutes for them is Melo and they can hide him. They’re going to have an elite paint defense. 
 

They were injured all year last year and in the playoffs. If AD is healthy that’s a top 3 defender that can guard inside and outside. 
 

I see them being a team that’ll be around top 10 statistically on defense but when they need a stop and have guys like Russ and Lebron 100% locked in they’re going to be damn hard to score on. 

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23 hours ago, dgambill said:

Who was the biggest free agent we have acquired? Look at this list and tell me how you expect to win a title when this is the best you can get.  1. David West 2. Bojan Bogdanovic 3. CJ Miles 4. Darren Collinson 5. Tyreke Evans  Let's be real...that is pretty dang sad those are the top free agent signings in the past 15 years.

This is probably the number 1 issue the franchise has against it.  When was the last time a top 30 free agent even considered Indiana?  Gordon Hayward? And that was for being hometown and may have been a smoke screen.  

The 2nd biggest issue is that the front office and ownership are nice guys and loyal.  What I mean about that is take 3 years ago.  Oladipo gets hurt and instead of trading the expiring contracts of some decent pieces that would be contributors on playoff teams, such as Thad, they hold him and let him walk to an in conference team.  They could have easily gotten a 2nd rounder out of that.  And remember they got Brogden for 2 seconds because the Bucks couldn't afford him.  So accumulating picks has for some reason never been in the pacers arsenal.  Same thing this year with McBuckets.  He was worth a 2nd to a playoff team looking for one more shooter.  So imo, the front office wants to be friends and nice guys with the players and not get into trading for assets.  They place the relationship over the business.  Good guys usually finish last.  

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2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

For one thing, the only bad defender I see getting consistent minutes for them is Melo and they can hide him. They’re going to have an elite paint defense. 
 

They were injured all year last year and in the playoffs. If AD is healthy that’s a top 3 defender that can guard inside and outside. 
 

I see them being a team that’ll be around top 10 statistically on defense but when they need a stop and have guys like Russ and Lebron 100% locked in they’re going to be damn hard to score on. 

Agree to disagree...and we will see how it plays out. They like to give Lebron a break on defense so they usually put him on the weakest player to save him offensively...like @BGleas said Caruso was tenacious on ball defender at the point, KCP was very good. They will have to play Davis a ton at center...Gasol is out of gas, and Howard is another season older and another season removed from his prime. Still a decent back up but he is not starting caliber and can only give you 15-20 mins a game. I just don't think the guys that came in are going to keep them a top 10 defense....it's also about matchups....so we will see but if they can avoid teams like the Suns who like to play up tempo and get Utah...ok I can see that. But this team is a slow it down grind it out team. They will not be the showtime Lakers of the 80's. They will fair much better against some matchups but I think with others they won't have to studs to slow down others. As always anything can happen just like in the bubble the Clippers choked and they had it pretty easy path to the Championship.

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15 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Shifting.  

Kemba to the Knicks.  

Think he was interested in coming to Indy?

I never saw us linked to him....now when he went to Boston I heard we were interested...but we hate big contracts and I can't see us ruining our cap by adding a player with minimal upgrade for us and might not even be able to play. At least in NY he and Rose can alternate which nights they will be hurt.

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38 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I never saw us linked to him....now when he went to Boston I heard we were interested...but we hate big contracts and I can't see us ruining our cap by adding a player with minimal upgrade for us and might not even be able to play. At least in NY he and Rose can alternate which nights they will be hurt.

The point is the pacers weren't considered, again, for a guy rated around 75th? in the league.  What i read is he will likely take up the Knicks remaining 11 mil in space.  That's dirt cheap for him.

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2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

The point is the pacers weren't considered, again, for a guy rated around 75th? in the league.  What i read is he will likely take up the Knicks remaining 11 mil in space.  That's dirt cheap for him.

Gotcha! We don't have cap space for him if we wanted him....but yes that is still pretty affordable if he is healthy. Platoon him and Rose and you might have something. Not sure why the Thunder waived him...I would have thought they might do like they did with CP3 and let him raise his value back up for a year and then try to move him but I suspect that he wasn't ever going to be healthy enough to do that.

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