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23 hours ago, ATX_sig said:

IMO, from a leadership standpoint, I'd put Draymond in with your PG list even if not a PG. The Simmons, group is more just players who can create and make plays as has been pointed out. I think I'd classify Luka in the Magic, Kidd group but would prefer he play a frontcourt position.  

I think the league is learning guys like Simmons aand Giannis kind of fit the mold as the new bigs in the league since they have can guard most players at any position and out to the perimeter.   I expect some of bigger bigs might be tough to guard in the paint for them but how many of them are left to deal with. 

 

Luka would be much better off if he wasn't the primary ball-handler; it would serve him well to have some to alleviate that pressure from him and that could get him an occasional easy bucket. 

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On 10/2/2021 at 2:43 PM, KoB2011 said:

Luka would be much better off if he wasn't the primary ball-handler; it would serve him well to have some to alleviate that pressure from him and that could get him an occasional easy bucket. 

Have you told Cuban this?

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2 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

I mean if that's what it takes to win games then sure.  Or risk his FT % issues

Hard to win games when your star player (or at least the one that is taking up 1/3 of your payroll) is sitting the bench. So your going to scrap the offensive system you have for 3 quarters which is centered around your facilitating point forward to finish games...essentially changing up your game plan. It probably would be alright during the regular season but no doubt come playoff time when the lights are brightest you are going to have to hide him....and to center a team around a guy who becomes immensely less impactful in the biggest moments and when the season matters just doesn't seem like a guy I would want to center my team around. That isn't even discussing the fact it's widely known he doesn't put in the work in the offseason to be great, would rather socialize with instagram models and influencers then become a great basketball player and improve his weaknesses. I don't see Ben Simmons as a star player...one you can build around...but maybe I'm in the minority. I'd much rather have any number of other young talented players than him. Lot's of guys below him in his draft class have improved their games and surpassed him. Jaylon Brown, Jamal Murray, Sabonis, Ingram, Siakam...he has soo much talent and potential but I just don't think he has the heart of a champion.

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24 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Hard to win games when your star player (or at least the one that is taking up 1/3 of your payroll) is sitting the bench. So your going to scrap the offensive system you have for 3 quarters which is centered around your facilitating point forward to finish games...essentially changing up your game plan. It probably would be alright during the regular season but no doubt come playoff time when the lights are brightest you are going to have to hide him....and to center a team around a guy who becomes immensely less impactful in the biggest moments and when the season matters just doesn't seem like a guy I would want to center my team around. That isn't even discussing the fact it's widely known he doesn't put in the work in the offseason to be great, would rather socialize with instagram models and influencers then become a great basketball player and improve his weaknesses. I don't see Ben Simmons as a star player...one you can build around...but maybe I'm in the minority. I'd much rather have any number of other young talented players than him. Lot's of guys below him in his draft class have improved their games and surpassed him. Jaylon Brown, Jamal Murray, Sabonis, Ingram, Siakam...he has soo much talent and potential but I just don't think he has the heart of a champion.

I see your point, I really do.  His focus isn't solely on basketball, rather focused on models, social media, etc but at the same time its hard to win games when your battling injuries nightly too and constantly having to game plan nightly.  Warren is injure prone, as is Brogdon, as is LeVert and hate to say it but Turner has had his fair share of injuries too.  That's four of your top 5 guys.  Yes they happen but Pacers have had issues with injuries alot.  

Pacers aren't a top FA destination and will never be in the future unless ownership changes and still at that I doubt that happens.  They either hit via the draft or make a trade for an all star level type player.  It'd be a risk for Indy to obtain him for sure.  But is it a risk to continue with the "same" squad or very similar squad knowing that injuries will be a major impact to the season?  Injuries are inevitable, they happen. 

 

Big question is, do you continue to run it back or make a swing for an all star level type of player?  Not just speaking for Ben here, but any potential all star or sure fire all star that is.        

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13 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Big question is, do you continue to run it back or make a swing for an all star level type of player?  Not just speaking for Ben here, but any potential all star or sure fire all star that is.     

While i think the Pacers should make a swing for an All-Star level player i just don't think Simmons is that guy. I think his ceiling is limited and doesn't really move the needle much. Also if they keep Sabonis he would be a terrible fit with Simmons, both of them like to have the ball in their hands and are limited from the outside. Simmons would be a better fit with Turner.

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4 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

I see your point, I really do.  His focus isn't solely on basketball, rather focused on models, social media, etc but at the same time its hard to win games when your battling injuries nightly too and constantly having to game plan nightly.  Warren is injure prone, as is Brogdon, as is LeVert and hate to say it but Turner has had his fair share of injuries too.  That's four of your top 5 guys.  Yes they happen but Pacers have had issues with injuries alot.  

Pacers aren't a top FA destination and will never be in the future unless ownership changes and still at that I doubt that happens.  They either hit via the draft or make a trade for an all star level type player.  It'd be a risk for Indy to obtain him for sure.  But is it a risk to continue with the "same" squad or very similar squad knowing that injuries will be a major impact to the season?  Injuries are inevitable, they happen. 

 

Big question is, do you continue to run it back or make a swing for an all star level type of player?  Not just speaking for Ben here, but any potential all star or sure fire all star that is.        

Oh...you mean should the Pacers make a move....agree the Pacers have a terrible time attracting talent and would have to consider it. Problem is that Pacer's best player is Sabonis....who really can't play the 5 and has a similar kind of game offensively (as far as where he likes to operate). Be tough having neither your 4 or 5 able to really stretch the floor and both like having the ball in their hands and faciliating. Problem is if you bring in Simmons then you have to get rid of the shooters (in the trade) to get him. I honestly only see one trade that would have any sort of chance of working and that is a 3 team deal that sends Sabonis/Warren/Lamb/picks possibly elsewhere that would land draft capital/starting players to send back to Philly. This would allow you to keep your scorers/shooters around Simmons (allow Brogdon/Levert to play off the ball and shoot) and would give you a tenacious defense pairing him with Turner and Duarte and McConnell. That type of pairing could work....I don't think Sabonis/Simmons works. In the end it wouldnt' work...he won't allow his agent to send him to Indy. Guy wants to end up in Miami/Cali etc....he wants to be in a major market and dating models etc. PG left...and so would Ben.

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2 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

While i think the Pacers should make a swing for an All-Star level player i just don't think Simmons is that guy. I think his ceiling is limited and doesn't really move the needle much. Also if they keep Sabonis he would be a terrible fit with Simmons, both of them like to have the ball in their hands and are limited from the outside. Simmons would be a better fit with Turner.

Exactly. We need to package our really good players for a great one....but Simmons I just don't think will work for us....nor would he want to be here.

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On 10/2/2021 at 1:43 PM, KoB2011 said:

Luka would be much better off if he wasn't the primary ball-handler; it would serve him well to have some to alleviate that pressure from him and that could get him an occasional easy bucket. 

I certainly agree that they should have another ball handler to alleviate pressure from him but I still think he should be the primary ball handler.  He just creates for everybody not just himself and you should not take that away.   I don't think that is Brunson who is fine running the 2nd unit.   I'd probably rather of had Dinwiddie than THJ but THJ is such a competitor and became a huge a locker room leader for the team.   I would of never thought THJ would of became that guy.  

 

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40 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

I certainly agree that they should have another ball handler to alleviate pressure from him but I still think he should be the primary ball handler.  He just creates for everybody not just himself and you should not take that away.   I don't think that is Brunson who is fine running the 2nd unit.   I'd probably rather of had Dinwiddie than THJ but THJ is such a competitor and became a huge a locker room leader for the team.   I would of never thought THJ would of became that guy.  

 

Agreed. They really just lack another scorer that can get his own shot. They should have shooters to surround him but it hurts to have 30+ million tied up into Porzingis who really can't initiate his own offense. 

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10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Agreed. They really just lack another scorer that can get his own shot. They should have shooters to surround him but it hurts to have 30+ million tied up into Porzingis who really can't initiate his own offense. 

I don’t think there is a chance Philly would even entertain it, but Simmons next to Doncic would be interesting. 

It would give Dallas an elite defender to pair with Luka, and while Simmons has offensive/shooting issues, it give Dallas a really skilled creator to get Luka off the ball for portions of the game. 

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12 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t think there is a chance Philly would even entertain it, but Simmons next to Doncic would be interesting. 

It would give Dallas an elite defender to pair with Luka, and while Simmons has offensive/shooting issues, it give Dallas a really skilled creator to get Luka off the ball for portions of the game. 

Oh...didn't know they were even in he running for him. I thought we were just discussing getting Luka some help.

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31 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Oh...didn't know they were even in he running for him. I thought we were just discussing getting Luka some help.

I'm not saying they're in the running, I have no idea, just throwing something out that would be an interesting pairing for Dallas. 

I don't think Dallas would have the assets. I know Simmons trade value has dipped, but I don't see a scenario where Philly wants Porzingas. 

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3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm not saying they're in the running, I have no idea, just throwing something out that would be an interesting pairing for Dallas. 

I don't think Dallas would have the assets. I know Simmons trade value has dipped, but I don't see a scenario where Philly wants Porzingas. 

Yeah....still see Portland as the most likely trade partner with McCollum. Sounds like Pacers, Cavs, and Minnesota are also heavily involved. That said I don't see them landing an all nba player in return.

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13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yeah....still see Portland as the most likely trade partner with McCollum. Sounds like Pacers, Cavs, and Minnesota are also heavily involved. That said I don't see them landing an all nba player in return.

 Reading up on a few Philly boards and most of them think Indy will be the likely trade partner, although its fan boards so that doesn't really mean much lol.

 To be honest i would be disappointed if the Pacers did trade for him, i am not a big fan of his game and i think he will be just like George and want to get to L.A sooner rather then later.

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3 hours ago, dgambill said:

Yeah....still see Portland as the most likely trade partner with McCollum. Sounds like Pacers, Cavs, and Minnesota are also heavily involved. That said I don't see them landing an all nba player in return.

It also just seems so obvious for GS. I have to imagine they at least kick the tires. 

They may want to see where Klay is first in his return. Not saying you trade Klay, saying you want to see if Klay is still championship caliber before trying to land Simmons to add to he and Steph. 

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17 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It also just seems so obvious for GS. I have to imagine they at least kick the tires. 

They may want to see where Klay is first in his return. Not saying you trade Klay, saying you want to see if Klay is still championship caliber before trying to land Simmons to add to he and Steph. 

GS already has Draymond…can’t imagine having another non shooter for people to help off and cover Klay/Steph. I think a team like Portland with a legit go to scoring super star who can carry you down the stretch and has need for the defense/passing makes the most sense. Maybe even Washington…just so hard to say because Philly values him way more than anyone else. I think he could work in Atlanta as well…surround with shooters…just don’t see anyone that is going to pay the crazy price. I do think the Pacers with a lot of good pieces could be possible as a facilitator in a multi team deal though.

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4 hours ago, dgambill said:

Agreed. They really just lack another scorer that can get his own shot. They should have shooters to surround him but it hurts to have 30+ million tied up into Porzingis who really can't initiate his own offense. 

If KP would get and stay healthy,  who cares if you have to feed the guy the ball to score 20-25 ppg.   He is a big time offensive scorer who can score in a lot of ways whether he can create off the dribble or not.  He can shoot lights out from deep. He can play in the paint and at his size he can shoot over people. IMO, RC abandoned him n the Clipper series and just had him stand around the 3 point area.  KP went into the off season healthy and gets to spend his time working on strength and basketball as opposed to rehab. Just stay healthy and I think he can get back to being an all star caliber player. 

That said and since you guys mentioned Simmons, I agree that Philly with embiid probably doesn't want to pair him with KP. Fit seems bad and there are no other trade options from Dallas side that would entice philly.  Dallas needs defense as bad or more than they need KP's scoring.  I'd certainly make that KP for Simmons trade from Dallas side.   I feel better that Simmons can fix his free throw shooting as opposed to KP not having another injury.

I think Simmons in San antonio makes sense but they don't really have the trade pieces either.  Maybe they could of had a chance before DeRozan chose the bulls but Philly was asking for a franchise in return. Derozan and a young player or 2 like White and Walker/Vassel today might of gotten a deal done. The sixers already seem to have a lot of good young players. I'd like to see the pacers get Simmons. 

 

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3 hours ago, dgambill said:

GS already has Draymond…can’t imagine having another non shooter for people to help off and cover Klay/Steph. I think a team like Portland with a legit go to scoring super star who can carry you down the stretch and has need for the defense/passing makes the most sense. Maybe even Washington…just so hard to say because Philly values him way more than anyone else. I think he could work in Atlanta as well…surround with shooters…just don’t see anyone that is going to pay the crazy price. I do think the Pacers with a lot of good pieces could be possible as a facilitator in a multi team deal though.

I was suggesting you put Draymond in the deal. 

The hard part for Portland is that by getting Simmons you want to add him to Dame and McCollum, not lose McCollum in the deal. It's the same thing for Boston when people talk about them trying to get Beal. Beal is a great player, but the Celtics need a 3rd star, not just to swap out Jaylen Brown for a marginally better 2nd star. 

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15 hours ago, Hoosier51 said:

 Reading up on a few Philly boards and most of them think Indy will be the likely trade partner, although its fan boards so that doesn't really mean much lol.

 To be honest i would be disappointed if the Pacers did trade for him, i am not a big fan of his game and i think he will be just like George and want to get to L.A sooner rather then later.

I am perfectly fine with the Pacers rolling the dice and acquiring Simmons.

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