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2 hours ago, rico said:

Before all the "experts" here trash this, I know it's simplistic and I know it's just one opinion, but that list barely has Simmons above Sabonis.  I'm struggling to put Ben Simmons and superstar in the same sentence.  Maybe it's the million dollar body and ten cent head influencing my view but I'm not sure most teams could keep Simmons happy long enough to develop him into "worth what he's paid".

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2 hours ago, Hoosier51 said:

Oh i would imagine they are looking into acquiring him. I guess i need to state that i wouldn't nessecarily be against getting him if it didn't break the bank. Some philly fans were talking about both Brogdon and Levert for him, that would be ridiculous and the Pacers would be idiots to do it. Also i just don't think he is willing to improve his game, he has been in the league for five years and hasn't improved much. Finally i just don't think he would be happy in Indy and we would have another Oladipo and George situation with the Pacers.

As for already not being able to not get out of the first round, why mortgage your future for a player that is going to keep the status quo. I am ready for the Pacers to make some moves but not for what it would take to get Ben.

I wouldn't give up both Brodgon and Lavert either, but not really because Simmons isn't worth it, but more because it doesn't make sense roster-wise. It would be very tough to play with all three of Simmons, Sabonis and Turner, and no real wing. That's the issue with the Pacers acquiring him, Brodgon and Lavert don't make sense for the Pacers roster-wise, and Philly doesn't really need Sabonis or Turner to package with one of the aforementioned wings/guards. The assets don't really line up. 

On the first round thing, we have no idea on whether an improved Pacers team with Simmons, and they would be improved, could get out of the first round. A lot would depend on how the Celtics improve, the Heat with their aging stars, how Atlanta continues to improve (I tend to think Atlanta benefitted more than anyone with the injuries/covid issues the Celtics, Pacers, Health, etc. experienced last year), etc. 

Either way, the Pacers would be better with Simmons and have a much, much better tradable asset. 

As @dgambill has said several times, for the Pacers (and probably most teams) it would probably have to be a 3 team trade to make it work. 

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43 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Before all the "experts" here trash this, I know it's simplistic and I know it's just one opinion, but that list barely has Simmons above Sabonis.  I'm struggling to put Ben Simmons and superstar in the same sentence.  Maybe it's the million dollar body and ten cent head influencing my view but I'm not sure most teams could keep Simmons happy long enough to develop him into "worth what he's paid".

I think there is some recency bias in terms of where Simmons is on that list, though it is probably deserved. 

I understand your comment, but while he's only 6 spots ahead of Sabonis, he'd still be the highest rated Pacer and he's 55 spots better than Lavert and 25 better than Brogdon. 

I completely agree that he needs to get better, and like @Hoosier51 I question if he really even wants too. I also admit I wouldn't want him on the Celtics, but that's a different situation than Indiana. We already have two stars, we need a 3rd, not to swap one out for someone else. 

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42 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think there is some recency bias in terms of where Simmons is on that list, though it is probably deserved. 

I understand your comment, but while he's only 6 spots ahead of Sabonis, he'd still be the highest rated Pacer and he's 55 spots better than Lavert and 25 better than Brogdon. 

I completely agree that he needs to get better, and like @Hoosier51 I question if he really even wants too. I also admit I wouldn't want him on the Celtics, but that's a different situation than Indiana. We already have two stars, we need a 3rd, not to swap one out for someone else. 

This discussion reminds me that the Pacers got Victor Oladipo and Damontas Sabonis for Paul George after George demanded a trade.  Despite Oladipo ultimately getting injured and wanting out of Indianapolis, that has to be considered a master stroke of a trade considering the weakness of Indiana's position.  I don't see Morey getting that kind of value out of Simmons, but we'll see!

Edited by FKIM01
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 You know one guy i give some credit to is Towns. I don't remember hearing anything about him wanting traded even though they suck and are their fourth head coach since he has been there and traded every decent player they have had other then him. If you put him with a better team i think he would flourish and you would hear more about him.

 

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1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

This discussion reminds me that the Pacers got Victor Oladipo and Damontas Sabonis for Paul George after George demanded a trade.  Despite Oladipo ultimately getting injured and wanting out of Indianapolis, that has to be considered a master stroke of a trade considering the weakness of Indiana's position.  I don't Morey getting that kind of value out of Simmons, but we'll see!

As much as i dislike George and now Oladipo for how it ended with the Pacers they did actually end up doing pretty decent with the trades.

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8 hours ago, Hoosier51 said:

As much as i dislike George and now Oladipo for how it ended with the Pacers they did actually end up doing pretty decent with the trades.

Quite a few parallels can be drawn using Simmons and PG.  Sort of very similar situations.

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The thing with Simmons is he is the type of talent that can slide in next to a dominant scorer/shooting team and take them to the next level. He doesn't need many shots at all to get his points, he facilitates, he rebounds, he is a very very good defender. He is a unique player. He isn't going to carry you down the stretch of a game or take the load off scoring. However, if you have guards that perhaps play better off the ball and don't ALWAYS need the ball in their hands creating he could be the final piece to the puzzle and a very very valuable trade asset. To me that is what this trade is about. Trying to get a star player here....maybe even one others will want to play with. Now...maybe a year and restoring his value might fix that and I could see several players wanting to play next to a guy that is fine facilitating and not taking a lot of shots...or I can see us flip him for several young talented players that might blossom into a star. To me that is much easier and more likely than trying to move Brogdon or Lavert on their own....they just aren't going to land that type of package. In my humble opinion this would have to be part of a much bigger deal. Pacers could perhaps even get out of having to move picks depending if they would include Sabonis to another team. That said I kind of think maybe a deal like this one might be possible.

 

tradenba-snap-1633612610773.png

I kind of like the first one because Dragic would give us a nice chunk of cap space when he expires.  or this...??

tradenba-snap-1633615200355.png

Had some deals with Sabonis that included Sacramento and Spurs if we couldn't get Philly to bite on either of these....much bigger trades.

Edited by dgambill
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10 minutes ago, rico said:

I just want to say I am skeptical myself on Simmons.  But some poster has me talked into the Pacers need something.  I am willing to gamble on acquiring Ben.  

Same here. I'm not really sold on him either...I just think it's easier to trade him and he is a better bargaining chip down the road then trying to trade several middle of the road guys we have now....and who knows...maybe Carlisle will make it work. Right now I've seen enough of these Pacers to know they won't get us anywhere special and fine with thinking outside the box.

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10 minutes ago, rico said:

I just want to say I am skeptical myself on Simmons.  But some poster has me talked into the Pacers need something.  I am willing to gamble on acquiring Ben.  

If the Pacers acquired him they would have to surround him with shooters similar to the Lebron led Cavs and the Giannis led Bucks. This actually fits with Carlisle because he has shown he wants to space the floor with shooting. Simmons is an elite defender and finisher around the rim. Just not a shooter. 

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18 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

If the Pacers acquired him they would have to surround him with shooters similar to the Lebron led Cavs and the Giannis led Bucks. This actually fits with Carlisle because he has shown he wants to space the floor with shooting. Simmons is an elite defender and finisher around the rim. Just not a shooter. 

Git-r-dun

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3 hours ago, dgambill said:

The thing with Simmons is he is the type of talent that can slide in next to a dominant scorer/shooting team and take them to the next level. He doesn't need many shots at all to get his points, he facilitates, he rebounds, he is a very very good defender. He is a unique player. He isn't going to carry you down the stretch of a game or take the load off scoring. However, if you have guards that perhaps play better off the ball and don't ALWAYS need the ball in their hands creating he could be the final piece to the puzzle and a very very valuable trade asset. To me that is what this trade is about. Trying to get a star player here....maybe even one others will want to play with. Now...maybe a year and restoring his value might fix that and I could see several players wanting to play next to a guy that is fine facilitating and not taking a lot of shots...or I can see us flip him for several young talented players that might blossom into a star. To me that is much easier and more likely than trying to move Brogdon or Lavert on their own....they just aren't going to land that type of package. In my humble opinion this would have to be part of a much bigger deal. Pacers could perhaps even get out of having to move picks depending if they would include Sabonis to another team. That said I kind of think maybe a deal like this one might be possible.

 

tradenba-snap-1633612610773.png

I kind of like the first one because Dragic would give us a nice chunk of cap space when he expires.  or this...??

tradenba-snap-1633615200355.png

Had some deals with Sabonis that included Sacramento and Spurs if we couldn't get Philly to bite on either of these....much bigger trades.

I think Sabonis would have to go if you bring in Simmons.  Not sure the pacers go for it because they are so, so, so bargain oriented.  Maybe the stars have aligned and in 3 years Duarte? will be a star and a team full of good bargains.  

Edited by NotIThatLives
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 While i would support Simmons on the Pacers i think it would be a massive mistake on their part, he isn't going to be worth the price the 76ers want and there is a very good chance he will want out within a year or two. So this is one time i hope the Pacers stay frugal lol. 😀

  To get him the Pacers would probably have to move Sabonis, they would be a terrible fit together, and i don't see them getting rid of Domas. Everybody talks about the fit with Myles and Domas, what do they think it would be with their two best players being completly incompetent from the outside and teams playing way off them, it would be a disaster.

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2 hours ago, Hoosier51 said:

Trade two injury prone guys for one that doesn't miss games....yes please!! Simmons/Brogdon/Warren....I'll keep Levert. I do think another move would have to happen with either Sabonis or Turner...but I'd welcome them to ship EVERYONE out if they have to.....I've seen this movie before....several times already in fact...and it was terrible each time.....stop with the sequels!! 

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10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Trade two injury prone guys for one that doesn't miss games....yes please!! Simmons/Brogdon/Warren....I'll keep Levert. I do think another move would have to happen with either Sabonis or Turner...but I'd welcome them to ship EVERYONE out if they have to.....I've seen this movie before....several times already in fact...and it was terrible each time.....stop with the sequels!! 

One that doesn't miss games, but one that doesn't work on improving his game and shrinks at times. Also one that doesn't really improve your team with all that you will have to send out. You would just be making a trade just for the sake of making a trade. 

Getting Ben would be the sequel, especially in about two years when he is in L.A or Miami. They can call it PG13 and V.O rebooted.

 

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On 10/6/2021 at 3:33 PM, BGleas said:

You are way undervaluing Ben Simmons. He is a superstar in the NBA. He's one of the top 2-3 defenders in the league, if not the best, and he can guard numerous positions and players.  He's an elite playmaker at 6'10".

He comes with some challenges because of his lack of shooting, but he is a superstar. I think you'd see much different results from him if he was in a situation like Giannis, where he has the ball more and is surrounded by shooters. 

But, he is a star in the league, and if he was on the Pacers current roster he would instantly be the clear cut best player on the team. 

This is coming from a Celtics fanwho can't stand Simmons. 

I’d take him in a heartbeat. I understand his flaws, but he is elite at pretty much everything except shooting and as much as Embiid and him may not be a fit, I think Simmons is the one who has been hurt most by it. 
 

He could score 20+ if there wasn’t Embiid in the lane. 

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6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I’d take him in a heartbeat. I understand his flaws, but he is elite at pretty much everything except shooting and as much as Embiid and him may not be a fit, I think Simmons is the one who has been hurt most by it. 
 

He could score 20+ if there wasn’t Embiid in the lane. 

Completely agree. While he is much more reluctant to shoot, I think in a better system with a roster designed around him, he's  the next closest thing to Giannis that we have in the NBA. Giannis is a better, more willing, shooter, but Simmons is a much better playmaker. 

They're both elite defenders. 

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree. While he is much more reluctant to shoot, I think in a better system with a roster designed around him, he's  the next closest thing to Giannis that we have in the NBA. Giannis is a better, more willing, shooter, but Simmons is a much better playmaker. 

They're both elite defenders. 

He might be the next closest thing to Giannis but there is a wide gulf in between the two. You switch the teams the two play for and the 76ers are celebrating a championship and the Bucks are wondering what they can get from the Kings or the Pacers for Ben after a first round loss lol.

 Clearly there is only a few that agree with me on here about Ben, while i think he is talented i just don't think he has it in him to get to the next level with his game. And the cost it would take to get him for what in my opinion would only be a two year rental just isn't worth it. 

I say all that knowing my luck as a fan the Pacers will do something stupid like trade LaVert, Brogdon and a FRP for him lol.😀

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