NBA Thread

[BGleas]

9 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Curious on some of ya'lls thoughts on KD's legacy if he never wins a title without the Dubs? 

Here's the thing with Durant. He's an all-time great player, no debating that, and he's an all-time great scorer. 

But, when you look at his legacy to this point, he's never been the best player in the league at any one time. 

In his era, he's arguably the 4th or 5th best player. LeBron, Steph, Giannis are all definitely ahead of him. You could argue Kobe crosses into Durant's era as well. 

Looking at the best small forwards ever, he's absolutely behind LeBron and Bird, and you can argue Dr. J should be ahead of him. 

Dr. J won two ABA titles and also took the Sixers to 3 Finals appearances as the best player on his team before finally getting over the hump and winning it when Moses joined. 

Durant has the 2 titles with Golden State, but those were Steph's teams and I think almost everyone has a little mental asterisk on those championships for KD. 

He's not a top 10 all-time player when you really begin listing guys out. Top 20 sure, but not top 10 at this point. 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Here's the thing with Durant. He's an all-time great player, no debating that, and he's an all-time great scorer. 

But, when you look at his legacy to this point, he's never been the best player in the league at any one time. 

In his era, he's arguably the 4th or 5th best player. LeBron, Steph, Giannis are all definitely ahead of him. You could argue Kobe crosses into Durant's era as well. 

Looking at the best small forwards ever, he's absolutely behind LeBron and Bird, and you can argue Dr. J should be ahead of him. 

Dr. J won two ABA titles and also took the Sixers to 3 Finals appearances as the best player on his team before finally getting over the hump and winning it when Moses joined. 

Durant has the 2 titles with Golden State, but those were Steph's teams and I think almost everyone has a little mental asterisk on those championships for KD. 

He's not a top 10 all-time player when you really begin listing guys out. Top 20 sure, but not top 10 at this point. 

I think this is a really good take, and short of him winning at least one but maybe two titles as the best player on his team between now and the end of his career I don't see how he gets into that top 10 discussion. 

[BGleas]

13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think this is a really good take, and short of him winning at least one but maybe two titles as the best player on his team between now and the end of his career I don't see how he gets into that top 10 discussion. 

Yeah, Durant needs to get at least one as the best player or in a situation where it's "his team."

The Nets experiment has been a complete disaster. There are definitely a lot of things outside of his control that factor into it, but even just the choice to "partner" with Kyrie and Steve Nash over Steph and Steve Kerr was just a bad career move.

[BobSaccamanno]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Here's the thing with Durant. He's an all-time great player, no debating that, and he's an all-time great scorer. 

But, when you look at his legacy to this point, he's never been the best player in the league at any one time. 

In his era, he's arguably the 4th or 5th best player. LeBron, Steph, Giannis are all definitely ahead of him. You could argue Kobe crosses into Durant's era as well. 

Looking at the best small forwards ever, he's absolutely behind LeBron and Bird, and you can argue Dr. J should be ahead of him. 

Dr. J won two ABA titles and also took the Sixers to 3 Finals appearances as the best player on his team before finally getting over the hump and winning it when Moses joined. 

Durant has the 2 titles with Golden State, but those were Steph's teams and I think almost everyone has a little mental asterisk on those championships for KD. 

He's not a top 10 all-time player when you really begin listing guys out. Top 20 sure, but not top 10 at this point. 

I agree especially about him not being a top ten player.  My only quibble is you could make a good argument he was the best player in 2021.  He was just crazy good that year.

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I agree especially about him not being a top ten player.  My only quibble is you could make a good argument he was the best player in 2021.  He was just crazy good that year.

I hear what you're saying, but I think you have to go Giannis when looking at the entire body of work (including playoffs).

[KoB2011]

3 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I agree especially about him not being a top ten player.  My only quibble is you could make a good argument he was the best player in 2021.  He was just crazy good that year.

2021 as in last season? He missed half the season and didn't get a single MVP vote; I'm sure you could make an argument, but I struggle to see how one would rise to the level of "good". 

[dgambill]

9 hours ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, Durant needs to get at least one as the best player or in a situation where it's "his team."

The Nets experiment has been a complete disaster. There are definitely a lot of things outside of his control that factor into it, but even just the choice to "partner" with Kyrie and Steve Nash over Steph and Steve Kerr was just a bad career move.

The very reason he left was because people wouldn’t give him his props for winning a championship with GS. Bad career move to team with Kyrie for sure but he had to leave for his legacy according to you…so not sure how he gets criticized for leaving…the best player in the nba doesn’t always win MVP…we know this. He was by far the best player on GS teams when he was there imo. I think his injury has certainly effected his athleticism for sure. He certainly past his peak. I won’t argue with his place in history…but as far as 1-1 scorers…he is one of the greatest I’ve ever seen. 
On the opposite side…Tatum is taking that next level leap for sure. He is letting the game come to him more and not forcing it…becoming really elite!

[BGleas]

41 minutes ago, dgambill said:

The very reason he left was because people wouldn’t give him his props for winning a championship with GS. Bad career move to team with Kyrie for sure but he had to leave for his legacy according to you…so not sure how he gets criticized for leaving…the best player in the nba doesn’t always win MVP…we know this. He was by far the best player on GS teams when he was there imo. I think his injury has certainly effected his athleticism for sure. He certainly past his peak. I won’t argue with his place in history…but as far as 1-1 scorers…he is one of the greatest I’ve ever seen. 
On the opposite side…Tatum is taking that next level leap for sure. He is letting the game come to him more and not forcing it…becoming really elite!

There's a lot more to the game then being the best 1-1 scorer. Yes, he gets docked in most peoples mind because he joined Golden State to win his titles, but time changes things. If he had stayed there and won 2-3 more titles things can potentially changed. 

People used to rag on LeBron for joining Wade and Bosh in Miami but they don't really do that anymore. 

As it is, people do put an asterisk on those titles though. Maybe Durant was the best talent, but those were and are Curry's teams. Curry had won a title and been to another Game 7 without Durant. Durant hasnt done much without Curry, except for that one Finals appearance with OKC. 

The bottom line is the NBA is measured by playoff success and in this era LeBron, Curry, Kobe if you count him in the era, and now Giannis have more. 

[BobSaccamanno]

7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

2021 as in last season? He missed half the season and didn't get a single MVP vote; I'm sure you could make an argument, but I struggle to see how one would rise to the level of "good". 

He was phenomenal during the playoffs.  Like lights out. 

[KoB2011]

6 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

He was phenomenal during the playoffs.  Like lights out. 

Yeah I get that, he wasn't the only one though. Did you see what Giannis did in the Finals after his team knocked out Durant?

[KoB2011]

 

[BobSaccamanno]

17 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah I get that, he wasn't the only one though. Did you see what Giannis did in the Finals after his team knocked out Durant?

Good point.  I recall that in G's close out game against the Suns, his performance on both ends was epic and probably historic.  His length and mobility are jaw dropping, and you couple that with his strength, motor, and competitiveness.

Do you think he is an all time top ten player, now or on track soon?  I'd say yes.

Regarding Durant, my recollection of his performance in the Bucks series was that he was basically unstoppable.  He was hitting shots with guys hanging all over him.  That may have been his career peak.  He was so impressive.  

Edited April 27, 2022 by BobSaccamanno

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Good point.  I recall that in G's close out game against the Suns, his performance on both ends was epic and probably historic.  His length and mobility are jaw dropping, and you couple that with his strength, motor, and competitiveness.

Do you think he is an all time top ten player, now or on track soon?  I'd say yes.

Regarding Durant, my recollection of his performance in the Bucks series was that he was basically unstoppable.  He was hitting shots with guys hanging all over him.  That may have been his career peak.  He was so impressive.  

Giannis is absolutely on track to be in the conversation for all-time top 10. He's not there yet, but definitely on the track. 

2 MVP's

1 DPOY

1 Title

1 Finals MVP

5x All-NBA (should be his 4th all-nba 1st team this year)

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Good point.  I recall that in G's close out game against the Suns, his performance on both ends was epic and probably historic.  His length and mobility are jaw dropping, and you couple that with his strength, motor, and competitiveness.

Do you think he is an all time top ten player, now or on track soon?  I'd say yes.

Regarding Durant, my recollection of his performance in the Bucks series was that he was basically unstoppable.  He was hitting shots with guys hanging all over him.  That may have been his career peak.  He was so impressive.  

Durant was incredible in that series, but Giannis was too. I think Durant was like 35/10 and Giannis was 32/13.

Luka led the playoffs in PPG last year.

Booker was incredible.

So yeah, KD was great and you could maybe make a case that in the playoffs he was the best player (IMO I would never say the best player in the playoffs was a guy that got eliminated in the 2nd round, but to each their own) but all those guys had better overall seasons than him last year IMO when you think about the fact that he missed half the games, didn’t get any MVP votes, etc. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by KoB2011

[BGleas]

I'm going to lose my mind in the next round when the Celtics play the Bucks. I'm a Giannis fan, but my God does he get away with charging all night long and the refs never call it. 

He literally plowed through a Bull at the end of the 1st quarter and it was called a block. Donovan challenged and even on replay, where it was 10000% a charge, they didn't overturn it. 

[dgambill]

23 hours ago, BGleas said:

There's a lot more to the game then being the best 1-1 scorer. Yes, he gets docked in most peoples mind because he joined Golden State to win his titles, but time changes things. If he had stayed there and won 2-3 more titles things can potentially changed. 

People used to rag on LeBron for joining Wade and Bosh in Miami but they don't really do that anymore. 

As it is, people do put an asterisk on those titles though. Maybe Durant was the best talent, but those were and are Curry's teams. Curry had won a title and been to another Game 7 without Durant. Durant hasnt done much without Curry, except for that one Finals appearance with OKC. 

The bottom line is the NBA is measured by playoff success and in this era LeBron, Curry, Kobe if you count him in the era, and now Giannis have more. 

How is that Curry’s team. Durant was two time finals mvp….something Curry has never won? I agree mostly with you…but those teams won it all because of Durant in my mind. GS beat a Kyrie and Love-less Cavs…they lost to a healthy Cav team the next year. They needed KD to win those two finals. Besides…I will give him credit…he has played with the 3 worst teammates in NBA history, Harden, Westbrook, and Kyrie so yeah he probably should have stuck with good teammates.

[dgambill]

56 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm going to lose my mind in the next round when the Celtics play the Bulls. I'm a Giannis fan, but my God does he get away with charging all night long and the refs never call it. 

He literally plowed through a Bull at the end of the 1st quarter and it was called a block. Donovan challenged and even on replay, where it was 10000% a charge, they didn't overturn it. 

Play Bulls?? Bucks correct? I think Boston beats them. They have Williams at the rim and Middleton might not even play in the series. Boston is looking promising.

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Play Bulls?? Bucks correct? I think Boston beats them. They have Williams at the rim and Middleton might not even play in the series. Boston is looking promising.

Yeah, meant Bucks. 

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

How is that Curry’s team. Durant was two time finals mvp….something Curry has never won? I agree mostly with you…but those teams won it all because of Durant in my mind. GS beat a Kyrie and Love-less Cavs…they lost to a healthy Cav team the next year. They needed KD to win those two finals. Besides…I will give him credit…he has played with the 3 worst teammates in NBA history, Harden, Westbrook, and Kyrie so yeah he probably should have stuck with good teammates.

The Warriors were, are and will be Steph Curry's team until he hangs it up. He's the best shooter the game has ever seen and he is the leader of that team. 

Everything they do is about Steph Curry. Their entire offense, even when Durant was there, was built around Curry. 

Durant was phenomenal, of course, and sure is the most talented in terms of the total package, but there were other guys you could have put in that Durant role and they still would have won. Curry is the irreplaceable one there. 

[Hippopotamo]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I'm going to lose my mind in the next round when the Celtics play the Bucks. I'm a Giannis fan, but my God does he get away with charging all night long and the refs never call it. 

He literally plowed through a Bull at the end of the 1st quarter and it was called a block. Donovan challenged and even on replay, where it was 10000% a charge, they didn't overturn it. 

I’m a biased Bulls fan but Giannis gets away with 10 charges every game. It’s infuriating. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Hippopotamo said:

I’m a biased Bulls fan but Giannis gets away with 10 charges every game. It’s infuriating. 

Completely agree. Like I said, I'm a Giannis fan but he gets away with a ton of charges and travels every game. 

[BGleas]

31 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Play Bulls?? Bucks correct? I think Boston beats them. They have Williams at the rim and Middleton might not even play in the series. Boston is looking promising.

Meant to reply to your other part too. Yeah, Celtics-Bucks should be a great series. Honestly, I think that's really the ECF. They're the two best teams in the East. 

It will be a tough one though, Giannis is just so hard to defend, and almost impossible when he's getting all the whistles. 

Should be fun to watch. 

[dgambill]

21 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The Warriors were, are and will be Steph Curry's team until he hangs it up. He's the best shooter the game has ever seen and he is the leader of that team. 

Everything they do is about Steph Curry. Their entire offense, even when Durant was there, was built around Curry. 

Durant was phenomenal, of course, and sure is the most talented in terms of the total package, but there were other guys you could have put in that Durant role and they still would have won. Curry is the irreplaceable one there. 

I just think Durant those two years was the best player in the league…and probably would have 3 peated with another finals mvp had he not got hurt. I know it’s Curry’s team…and everything they ran was done with him and Thompson in mind…and of course they were overkill with Durant…but the man was unstoppable at his peak for about 4-5 years. He has lost a bit for sure but I do think for a period he was the best player in the league…that was my only point. It’s passed that now though no doubt.

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I just think Durant those two years was the best player in the league…and probably would have 3 peated with another finals mvp had he not got hurt. I know it’s Curry’s team…and everything they ran was done with him and Thompson in mind…and of course they were overkill with Durant…but the man was unstoppable at his peak for about 4-5 years. He has lost a bit for sure but I do think for a period he was the best player in the league…that was my only point. It’s passed that now though no doubt.

I don’t think he was better than LeBron those years, he was just on a better team. LeBron was still the best player in the league IMO, and then it was a quick shift to Giannis. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I don’t think he was better than LeBron those years, he was just on a better team. LeBron was still the best player in the league IMO, and then it was a quick shift to Giannis. 

1A/1B…I think at that point is was pick your poison. That said their greatness still surpasses what we get from Giannis. Giannis is amazing and most dominant player in the League right now…but more like how Shaq was. Dominates with his length and athleticism and being a physical freak more so than skill. I mean a 4 time scoring champion is still pretty special given Durants body of work. Anyways I’m a Durant fan (basketball player wise) but can easily tell he is no longer in the prime of his game….but even less than that he can still win another title…just should pick better teammates. I’ll never figure out how Lebron won with Kyrie….that one should count as two titles lol.