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13 hours ago, ATX_sig said:

Was just trying to stir up discussions on pick 31 with all the talk focused on 6 plus a little humor thrown in on TJD being the pick.

I don't see a big thick line between 6 and 10 when comparing these Mocks.  ESPN has the blazers taking Duren at 7. Walterfootball has him at 5.  I probably would not draft him over the top 6 but you have to work him out and do your homework.  

The thing with Duren is that his offensive game is very one dimensional. He's an athletic lob threat and he's not a great FT shooter. Could he develop? Possibly, but I would be taking someone that has a chance to be something more than that with pick 6 if I'm the Pacers. 

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3 hours ago, DC2345 said:

The thing with Duren is that his offensive game is very one dimensional. He's an athletic lob threat and he's not a great FT shooter. Could he develop? Possibly, but I would be taking someone that has a chance to be something more than that with pick 6 if I'm the Pacers. 

My question what makes Duren a better prospect than TJD 

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1 hour ago, DC2345 said:

Taller, more athletic, longer wingspan, younger, and has a higher upside. 

That is sad that those things are more important than production on the court.  He can't shoot and he is only an inch taller so to me I don't see why Duren would be considered a top ten prospect.

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36 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

That is sad that those things are more important than production on the court.  He can't shoot and he is only an inch taller so to me I don't see why Duren would be considered a top ten prospect.

Because production on the court in college doesn't always lead to success in the NBA. When skill sets are similar you go with the guy that is younger with higher upside. 

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2 hours ago, DC2345 said:

Because production on the court in college doesn't always lead to success in the NBA. When skill sets are similar you go with the guy that is younger with higher upside. 

Not saying TJD should be a top 10 pick but just don't see Duren any better

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Watching most teams play NBA bigs off the floor in the postseason I wouldn’t touch a traditional center in the top of the draft. It’s a guard/ball dominant player sport now. I want a guy with elite shooting, athleticism, and a quick first step.

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6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Watching most teams play NBA bigs off the floor in the postseason I wouldn’t touch a traditional center in the top of the draft. It’s a guard/ball dominant player sport now. I want a guy with elite shooting, athleticism, and a quick first step.

I don’t know, athletic bigs that can protect the rim, switch multiple positions defensively and finish at the rim and/or shoot are still valuable. 

The Celtics best lineup is Robert Williams with Horford, the Bucks played Brooke Lopez and Giannis, Miami plays Bam Adebayo, GS Looney, Phoenix Ayton, Philly Embiid, etc., etc.

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18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t know, athletic bigs that can protect the rim, switch multiple positions defensively and finish at the rim and/or shoot are still valuable. 

The Celtics best lineup is Robert Williams with Horford, the Bucks played Brooke Lopez and Giannis, Miami plays Bam Adebayo, GS Looney, Phoenix Ayton, Philly Embiid, etc., etc.

Only one of those players is the best player on his team. Until you have that…those guys are just ancillary pieces. You can’t build around them. If the Pacers had a Tatum…heck even a Brown it would be different. Almost all those guys are like 3rd or even 4th or 5th options. I can acquire those type of players much much easier than I can find a Booker, Tatum, Curry, Giannis, Doncic, etc. I’m not saying they aren’t valuable….just I can acquire that role player much much easier and not spending too 10 picks on them unless they are a clear generational talent.

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8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Only one of those players is the best player on his team. Until you have that…those guys are just ancillary pieces. You can’t build around them. If the Pacers had a Tatum…heck even a Brown it would be different. Almost all those guys are like 3rd or even 4th or 5th options. I can acquire those type of players much much easier than I can find a Booker, Tatum, Curry, Giannis, Doncic, etc. I’m not saying they aren’t valuable….just I can acquire that role player much much easier and not spending too 10 picks on them unless they are a clear generational talent.

Who said anything about building the team around them? I missed where that was the premise?

Regardless, you still need those guys. They're not irrelevant to the game. You still need them to win, and if the best player available in the draft is an athletic, versatile big (especially defensively) then you take them. 

As an example, the Cavs took Evan Mobely #3 last year and he's going to be a great, really important player for them. They start him with Jarrett Allen and it's a formidable, athletic front line that really helped propel Cleveland into a playoff team. 

Garland is the key, best player, but they aren't a playoff team without Allen and Mobely. 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Who said anything about building the team around them? I missed where that was the premise?

Regardless, you still need those guys. They're not irrelevant to the game. You still need them to win, and if the best player available in the draft is an athletic, versatile big (especially defensively) then you take them. 

As an example, the Cavs took Evan Mobely #3 last year and he's going to be a great, really important player for them. They start him with Jarrett Allen and it's a formidable, athletic front line that really helped propel Cleveland into a playoff team. 

Garland is the key, best player, but they aren't a playoff team without Allen and Mobely. 

The premise was I wouldn’t focus on taking a big at the top of the draft if I could. (Players who you will build your team around at the top of the draft…not later on in the draft who yes who likely will be targeted as role players)

When I say big I mean one dimensional 5s that haven’t shown they can step out and make shots or move their feet and switch off and play the pick n roll. Bam is 6’9…JJJ who is someone I would target is not a prototypical 5. Guys like Wiseman and Duran haven’t shown me they can develop the game necessary  that can keep them on the floor in crunch time. Like you said when you can deploy a vet minimum guy like Looney or utilize an old Wiley vet like Horford or a tweener like Larry Nance Jr….why devote limited draft capital at the top of a draft on a big. It’s not an absolute just a general rule. Am I taking Ayton or Bagley instead of Doncic, Young, JJJ, SGA or heck even either Bridges or even Huerter or Sexton….hmm.  And We will see if Mobley plays an important role in winning a championship or not. Would I take him over Barnes, Giddy or even Waggnor?? Not so sure. Would he be a great fit on a team that has a couple stars on it already…ok maybe…but I’m not building a team around a big. I’m focusing on finding a star or two first that can take over a ball game or carry my team. The game has changed so much…the post season is very different then the regular season and much easier to game plan those guys off the floor. Heck look at Dallas. They had the “unicorn” and they traded him for a guard whose whole team hated him and who has been now critical in helping carry that team into the conference finals. All the teams whose best  or one of best players are bigs….KAT, Embiid, Jokic, Gobert, Ayton are out. Miami is suffering because they are getting nothing from Bam who I actually think is the right kind of big you need…but overall these guys just aren’t great centerpieces in the postseason. Now regular season is a different thing altogether. Guess it’s my opinion and maybe I’d make a poor GM….no doubt I probably would lol…but I’m looking to those special skilled guys guards/wings to build my team.

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41 minutes ago, dgambill said:

The premise was I wouldn’t focus on taking a big at the top of the draft if I could. (Players who you will build your team around at the top of the draft…not later on in the draft who yes who likely will be targeted as role players)

When I say big I mean one dimensional 5s that haven’t shown they can step out and make shots or move their feet and switch off and play the pick n roll. Bam is 6’9…JJJ who is someone I would target is not a prototypical 5. Guys like Wiseman and Duran haven’t shown me they can develop the game necessary  that can keep them on the floor in crunch time. Like you said when you can deploy a vet minimum guy like Looney or utilize an old Wiley vet like Horford or a tweener like Larry Nance Jr….why devote limited draft capital at the top of a draft on a big. It’s not an absolute just a general rule. Am I taking Ayton or Bagley instead of Doncic, Young, JJJ, SGA or heck even either Bridges or even Huerter or Sexton….hmm.  And We will see if Mobley plays an important role in winning a championship or not. Would I take him over Barnes, Giddy or even Waggnor?? Not so sure. Would he be a great fit on a team that has a couple stars on it already…ok maybe…but I’m not building a team around a big. I’m focusing on finding a star or two first that can take over a ball game or carry my team. The game has changed so much…the post season is very different then the regular season and much easier to game plan those guys off the floor. Heck look at Dallas. They had the “unicorn” and they traded him for a guard whose whole team hated him and who has been now critical in helping carry that team into the conference finals. All the teams whose best  or one of best players are bigs….KAT, Embiid, Jokic, Gobert, Ayton are out. Miami is suffering because they are getting nothing from Bam who I actually think is the right kind of big you need…but overall these guys just aren’t great centerpieces in the postseason. Now regular season is a different thing altogether. Guess it’s my opinion and maybe I’d make a poor GM….no doubt I probably would lol…but I’m looking to those special skilled guys guards/wings to build my team.

There’s a lot here to unpack and it’s kinda hard to dig into without clean paragraph breaks, but I’ll give it a shot.

I’ll start by saying you kind of pick and choose when you’re applying whatever your definition is of a big in your post - you said JJJ isn’t (he lead the league in blocks) because he doesn’t get planted to the floor and can’t move (I assume this is a shot at Ayton), but if you’re not counting JJJ then wouldn’t you not count Embiid, Joker, etc?

I think it’s a little unfair to say not to draft a big high and just use this year as an example when all the best bigs in the leagues had weird things/injuries happen around them to the other best players. Giannis is out in part because of an injury, Joker same story, Embiid just had weird stuff going on with that team, Ayton is out this year but made the Finals last year and they’re out because of how badly CP3 got abused, not because of Ayton.

I would obviously take Luka and Young over Ayton from that draft but the rest of it I’m not so sure.

I am not even sure I know who you’re talking about you wouldn’t take in this draft, because the top three guys are all 6’10 and all frankly have HOF upside and look the part of guys who can be the centerpiece of a title team in about 5 years. 

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Celtics with just an awful first half performance. An absolute win to cut the lead to 15 going into half. 

Not ideal, but need to win the 3rd quarter and then make it a game going down the stretch. 

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https://twitter.com/SeanGrandePBP/status/1528193175877304322

For some reason this tweet won't embed, but this is why you need good big men to win. The Celtics have been outscored by 42 points in Daniel Theis' 34 minutes played in the series and Boston has outscored Miami by 41 in the 86 minutes Theis hasn't played. 

The only reason Theis has played that many minutes is because Robert Williams, a all-defensive 2nd team selection, has missed games 1 & 3. Without Williams protecting the rim, defending on switches and catching lob dunks, the Celtics are not nearly as good. 

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4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Hard to believe that Jimmy Butler is letting knee inflammation keep him from playing in a Eastern Conference championship playoff game.

I guess he's just not as tough as guys like Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Only real men miss Finals games with a hurt ankle. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I guess he's just not as tough as guys like Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Only real men miss Finals games with a hurt ankle. 

I meant he is a tough guy and surprised he is not trying to say through it.

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I meant he is a tough guy and surprised he is not trying to say through it.

That should tell you it really is bothering him and affecting his play. He didn't look great in the first half. 

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6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This game is so frustrating. Tatum, Brown and Smart have a combined 17 turnovers while shooting a combined 3-for-17 from 3. Many of the turnovers have just been stupid, bonehead plays. 

I haven't been paying the utmost attention but that overturned foul about 20 mins ago(8ish min) that went the Celtics may have been as bad as anything we have seen in the B1G in the last 5 years outside of the slap heard round the world.  

As soon as they challenged, I said, they must need a timeout, that was the most obvious, egregious foul I have seen in years.  Nope, turn it over no foul.  Lol

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Just an absolutely epic meltdown by the Celtics tonight. 22 turnovers with Smart, Tatum and Brown combining for 17. Just an atrocious performance. I think Boston is clearly the better team in this series, but it doesn't really matter when you're down 1-2. 

Tatum 3-for-14, 1-for-7 from 3, with 6 turnovers. Rare to see a superstar meltdown that bad. He had a similar game in the Milwaukee series. 

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11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This game is so frustrating. Tatum, Brown and Smart have a combined 17 turnovers while shooting a combined 3-for-17 from 3. Many of the turnovers have just been stupid, bonehead plays. 

I admittedly don’t watch much NBA or Celtics games… but the last few times I’ve seen Tatum he has been a turnover machine. Many of those have just been poor decisions and being loose with the ball.

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