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7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Favorable whistle like double their free throw attempts and 12 less fouls? :coffee:

With as physical as the Warriors played, the raw numbers don't really tell the story. 

I'm just not ready to joke about it yet 🤣

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41 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Can't get onboard with that. You can't call a guy a superstar for being 24 and the best player on a team that goes to the Finals and then pull it back because he doesn't win or doesn't dominate those Finals. 

Jokic and Embiid have never been out of the 2nd round. Luka has never been to the Finals. Paul George never has. Dame never has. 

The guy is 24, a 3-time all star and was just 1st Team All-NBA (actually the hardest thing outside of an MVP). He's broken a ton of Celtics playoff records, etc.

Does he still have things to work on? Sure, but so did all of the superstars at 24.

He has gotten better every year too.  If he does this for 5 or 6 more years, he's going to jump into some big name comparisons and rankings.  He's laid a foundation.  Just has to keep adding to his game and growing.  

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4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

He has gotten better every year too.  If he does this for 5 or 6 more years, he's going to jump into some big name comparisons and rankings.  He's laid a foundation.  Just has to keep adding to his game and growing.  

Absolutely! I said last night that he needs to add a post game ala Jordan and Kobe later in their careers.

At times last night GS went small with Curry, GP II, Poole, Wiggins and Green. Tatum should have abused them from the mid-post. 

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55 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Can't get onboard with that. You can't call a guy a superstar for being 24 and the best player on a team that goes to the Finals and then pull it back because he doesn't win or doesn't dominate those Finals. 

Jokic and Embiid have never been out of the 2nd round. Luka has never been to the Finals. Paul George never has. Dame never has. 

The guy is 24, a 3-time all star and was just 1st Team All-NBA (actually the hardest thing outside of an MVP). He's broken a ton of Celtics playoff records, etc.

Does he still have things to work on? Sure, but so did all of the superstars at 24.

Stars are still special in my book. Kyrie is a star, Harden is a star, Booker is a star, Paul George is a star same for Jokic/Embiid. I was ready to put Tatum on the KD, Giannis, Lebron, Curry, Kahwai level of the game. Not saying he isn’t on track to still be that…but I was thinking he was there. Ready to dominate the game. Kobe style. He just isn’t. He still needs some growth. Nothing wrong with that. You can’t have the worst shooting percentage all time in the finals for a player taking 20 shots a game and be a superstar level player (without some accomplishments already) He bested some great players on his way here but the lights have been a little too bright for him. That’s all I’m saying. I think this experience will actually improve him and focus him even more…but we were all ready to crown Booker too…and we’ll he came up short too. It’s just the natural process of growth for superstars. Like Giannis and Lebron etc you have to go through your adversity and take your lumps. It drives you to go to that next level…superstar level….HOF/75 greatest level…I think Tatum can get there…but he just isn’t there yet. Hope that explains it better. I don’t throw superstar around lightly. Who knows…maybe he digs down deep and carries Boston across the finish line in epic style. But at this point it isn’t an understatement to say the finals although been good overall from Boston…has been a disappointment in terms of Tatums leadership and performance. 

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40 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Last night I saw them play a ton of Wiggins at the four. I don’t see at all how giving Beal GP2 and Poole’s minutes would be worse for the Warriors. 

Because you don’t have Wiggins if you add Beal. How is that hard to understand? Wiggins is better than Beal at what GS needs. They don’t need another shooter…they need defense, athleticism, energy. You can’t take away their best defender, best rim protector, best rebounder and 2nd leading scorer just to add another jump shooter. Trade Klay…sure. But that won’t happen we know it. All the picks and young guys don’t mean squat if you can’t make salaries match. Beal is not needed on GS.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Because you don’t have Wiggins if you add Beal. How is that hard to understand? Wiggins is better than Beal at what GS needs. They don’t need another shooter…they need defense, athleticism, energy. You can’t take away their best defender, best rim protector, best rebounder and 2nd leading scorer just to add another jump shooter. Trade Klay…sure. But that won’t happen we know it. All the picks and young guys don’t mean squat if you can’t make salaries match. Beal is not needed on GS.

We don’t know exactly what’s on the table for trades but because of all the options that would be involved, but the Warriors could conceivably come up with a package not including Wiggins. 

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Quick thought on Game 6 and the Celtics. Steph is clearly the MVP of the series if GS pulls it out, but the last two games the change in the series has been Andrew Wiggins elevating his play offensively and on the boards. 

If I'm Udoka, I'm putting Grant Williams on Wiggins for a while and seeing how it goes. Tell Williams his main job is to box Wiggins out not let him impact the game on the boards and then also just be a complete Draymond-like irritant to get in Wiggins head. 

Mug him, push and grab him and just get him off his game. Force the refs to call all of that, and force Steph to do it by himself. 

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15 hours ago, dgambill said:

Stars are still special in my book. Kyrie is a star, Harden is a star, Booker is a star, Paul George is a star same for Jokic/Embiid. I was ready to put Tatum on the KD, Giannis, Lebron, Curry, Kahwai level of the game. Not saying he isn’t on track to still be that…but I was thinking he was there. Ready to dominate the game. Kobe style. He just isn’t. He still needs some growth. Nothing wrong with that. You can’t have the worst shooting percentage all time in the finals for a player taking 20 shots a game and be a superstar level player (without some accomplishments already) He bested some great players on his way here but the lights have been a little too bright for him. That’s all I’m saying. I think this experience will actually improve him and focus him even more…but we were all ready to crown Booker too…and we’ll he came up short too. It’s just the natural process of growth for superstars. Like Giannis and Lebron etc you have to go through your adversity and take your lumps. It drives you to go to that next level…superstar level….HOF/75 greatest level…I think Tatum can get there…but he just isn’t there yet. Hope that explains it better. I don’t throw superstar around lightly. Who knows…maybe he digs down deep and carries Boston across the finish line in epic style. But at this point it isn’t an understatement to say the finals although been good overall from Boston…has been a disappointment in terms of Tatums leadership and performance. 

Admittedly, he hasn't had a signature game in the Finals, and he's had some struggles especially in the 4th quarter and with turnovers, but he's still been pretty damn good. 

Edit: I admit that it's a bit of an arbitrary stat, but at the same time Kobe never did it, Kawhi has never done it, and LeBron didn't do it until his 3rd Finals appearance at 27 years old. 

 

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19 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

We don’t know exactly what’s on the table for trades but because of all the options that would be involved, but the Warriors could conceivably come up with a package not including Wiggins. 

Beal is a max contract…GS can’t acquire him without giving one up…meaning Curry, Thompson, Green, or Wiggins have to go. They probably can’t even afford to re-sign Poole because he is probably going to price himself out. Money is not unlimited….GS is like 150 million over the luxury tax. If they could figure out a way to fit Beal in there…well I’d be shocked.

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6 hours ago, BGleas said:

Admittedly, he hasn't had a signature game in the Finals, and he's had some struggles especially in the 4th quarter and with turnovers, but he's still been pretty damn good. 

Edit: I admit that it's a bit of an arbitrary stat, but at the same time Kobe never did it, Kawhi has never done it, and LeBron didn't do it until his 3rd Finals appearance at 27 years old. 

 

I’m a big Tatum fan….I’ve ripped Philly and LA for passing on him…and I don’t think star is a slight to him. I just cooled off on naming him a superstar like Giannis, Lebron, Steph etc. he is well on his way though for sure. I think this will fuel him for sure….but he also has these stats

 

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C8BEA844-1B02-4F4E-A8CE-C4DC88347773.png

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6 hours ago, BGleas said:

Quick thought on Game 6 and the Celtics. Steph is clearly the MVP of the series if GS pulls it out, but the last two games the change in the series has been Andrew Wiggins elevating his play offensively and on the boards. 

If I'm Udoka, I'm putting Grant Williams on Wiggins for a while and seeing how it goes. Tell Williams his main job is to box Wiggins out not let him impact the game on the boards and then also just be a complete Draymond-like irritant to get in Wiggins head. 

Mug him, push and grab him and just get him off his game. Force the refs to call all of that, and force Steph to do it by himself. 

Gotta try several things obviously but clearly Celtics over emphasized the defense on Steph and left too much room for Wiggins. It’s imperative they get out to a good start and are able to get Tatum and Brown rest. White and G Williams need to give them good productive minutes. I think they play well at home. If Pritchard or even Neismith could give them 5-8 minutes that would be great. Lengthen the bench just a bit like GS has. Buy Tatum, Brown, and Smart a couple extra minutes. I don’t expect them to let Wiggins continue to beat them…they will rotate help off Draymond, Looney, and other non shooters. 

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21 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I’m a big Tatum fan….I’ve ripped Philly and LA for passing on him…and I don’t think star is a slight to him. I just cooled off on naming him a superstar like Giannis, Lebron, Steph etc. he is well on his way though for sure. I think this will fuel him for sure….but he also has these stats

 

BB72D7B9-C7CC-44B2-B4D7-7A46DE28B9A6.png

C8BEA844-1B02-4F4E-A8CE-C4DC88347773.png

No, it's not a slight. It depends on where your cutoff is for superstar is and you define it personally. All fair.

I just don't think it's fair to call him a superstar for being the best player on a Finals team, and then pull it back for how those Finals go. 

He hasn't been great, but he hasn't been that bad either. He's been good, not great.

The turnover stat, while also not great, isn't really that crazy. He's played the most minutes in this playoffs and also has the most points, rebounds and assists. So, he plays the most games, etc., and has the ball in his hands the most. 

The guys he passed for that record is a who's, who of NBA superstars. 

 

Screenshot_20220615-190934_Chrome.jpg

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7 hours ago, rico said:

It’s funny…I wish NBA GMs liked Brogdon and Turner as much as other teams fans seem to like them. Would love to get a couple more picks in the 10-15 range. Could come out with 3 young players to pair with Duarte, Halliburton, and Jackson…or package together to move up into top 10 or from 4.

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14 hours ago, dgambill said:

Gotta try several things obviously but clearly Celtics over emphasized the defense on Steph and left too much room for Wiggins. It’s imperative they get out to a good start and are able to get Tatum and Brown rest. White and G Williams need to give them good productive minutes. I think they play well at home. If Pritchard or even Neismith could give them 5-8 minutes that would be great. Lengthen the bench just a bit like GS has. Buy Tatum, Brown, and Smart a couple extra minutes. I don’t expect them to let Wiggins continue to beat them…they will rotate help off Draymond, Looney, and other non shooters. 

I don’t think you'll see much of Pritchard and most likely none of Neismith. 

The Celtics need to get Al Horford involved and Jaylen Brown going. Horford has been great in the wins and almost non-existent in the losses. He has to find ways to impact even if he's not getting a ton of shots. 

While Draymond has been pretty bad this series, he still makes an impact with energy, effort and defense. Horford needs to do something like dominate the glass even if he's not scoring. 

Other than that, its pretty simple. Don't turn the ball over, and get good shots with movement, not isolation. 

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35 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t think you'll see much of Pritchard and most likely none of Neismith. 

The Celtics need to get Al Horford involved and Jaylen Brown going. Horford has been great in the wins and almost non-existent in the losses. He has to find ways to impact even if he's not getting a ton of shots. 

While Draymond has been pretty bad this series, he still makes an impact with energy, effort and defense. Horford needs to do something like dominate the glass even if he's not scoring. 

Other than that, its pretty simple. Don't turn the ball over, and get good shots with movement, not isolation. 

I think the key is exactly that - don’t turn the ball over and hit shots.

If you look back at Game 5 and ignore any thoughts on the officiating, the Celtics lost a game they got a goose egg from three out of Steph and had double the free throw attempts and it happened because of those two areas.

If I were to add a third area I’d say keep the Warriors out of the paint. They scored a ton inside in Game 5 - make them (someone besides Steph) hit jumpers to beat you in your home court. 

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Just now, KoB2011 said:

I think the key is exactly that - don’t the ball over and hit shots.

If you look back at Game 5 and ignore any thoughts on the officiating, the Celtics lost a game they got a goose egg from three out of Steph and had double the free throw attempts and it happened because of those two areas.

If I were to add a third area I’d say keep the Warriors out of the paint. They scored a ton inside in Game 5 - make them (someone besides Steph) hit jumpers to beat you in your home court. 

Agree completely. The Warriors have scored between 100-108 points in every game this series. 

The issue all series has been which team is going to show up offensively for the Celtics?

The one that moves the ball, doesn't over penetrate and hits open guys for open shots, or the one that plays iso ball all night, over commits on the dribble drives and commits a ton of live-ball turnovers. 

It's pretty simple. 

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9 hours ago, BGleas said:

I don’t think you'll see much of Pritchard and most likely none of Neismith. 

The Celtics need to get Al Horford involved and Jaylen Brown going. Horford has been great in the wins and almost non-existent in the losses. He has to find ways to impact even if he's not getting a ton of shots. 

While Draymond has been pretty bad this series, he still makes an impact with energy, effort and defense. Horford needs to do something like dominate the glass even if he's not scoring. 

Other than that, its pretty simple. Don't turn the ball over, and get good shots with movement, not isolation. 

They are at home. They should be able to spot you 5-8 minutes. Obviously they can’t turn it over. That’s a given. I think tonight at home it’s about the supporting cast. White, Williams, Smart, Horford stepping up. Get out to a good start. Don’t turn it over and supporting cast play well. It might be Tatum and brown getting them going early but it will be the cast sustaining them and taking the load off. Tatum has had to carry too much of the weight. His scoring has gone down each series. The minutes are adding up. Game 7 on the road will be when the stars will have to carry them. Looking for a good game and to go back to GS for an epic game 7.

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32 minutes ago, dgambill said:

They are at home. They should be able to spot you 5-8 minutes. Obviously they can’t turn it over. That’s a given. I think tonight at home it’s about the supporting cast. White, Williams, Smart, Horford stepping up. Get out to a good start. Don’t turn it over and supporting cast play well. It might be Tatum and brown getting them going early but it will be the cast sustaining them and taking the load off. Tatum has had to carry too much of the weight. His scoring has gone down each series. The minutes are adding up. Game 7 on the road will be when the stars will have to carry them. Looking for a good game and to go back to GS for an epic game 7.

Absolutely on the "others". Horford has to find a way to impact the game. He's got to outplay Draymond. Williams has to find a way to get some of those easy lobs (which he hasn't really gotten this series), and Smart needs to score 18ish+. 

The role players have to show up at home. Horford has basically been non-existent the last two games. 

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My prediction for tonight is that the Celtics lead most of the way, but one of those leads where it's 10-14 most of the game, but feels like it should be 20+  

The Warriors close the gap to end the 3rd and then the Championship experience takes over in the 4th and they win by about 8-12. 

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17 minutes ago, BGleas said:

My prediction for tonight is that the Celtics lead most of the way, but one of those leads where it's 10-14 most of the game, but feels like it should be 20+  

The Warriors close the gap to end the 3rd and then the Championship experience takes over in the 4th and they win by about 8-12. 

I think Boston gets out early and wins comfortably. I think Horford and White have huge games.

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Just now, KoB2011 said:

Heard Game 6 Klay might show up tonight and bring friends with him. Celts are done tonight IMO. 

It's hard for me to see the Celtics losing 3 in a row, but it just feels like the veteran, championship experience is overtaking here. 

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