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I don’t understand why some people view a team signing a restricted free agent to an offer sheet as undercutting the players original team and stealing their player. To me it’s better for that team because they at least get a chance to match the offer which they don’t in unrestricted free agency. 

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35 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

I don’t understand why some people view a team signing a restricted free agent to an offer sheet as undercutting the players original team and stealing their player. To me it’s better for that team because they at least get a chance to match the offer which they don’t in unrestricted free agency. 

Suns had every chance to sign him or Stick….

owner is a knob 

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1 hour ago, Purdue7 said:

Suns had every chance to sign him or Stick….

owner is a knob 

Agreed. I just don’t understand the perception that restricted free agency is stealing a teams player that is floated around by casual fans on Twitter and historically Herb Simon. 

Edited by DC2345
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6 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Agreed. I just don’t understand the perception that restricted free agency is stealing a teams player that is floated around by casual fans on Twitter and historically Herb Simon. 

Wasn't Brogdon a restricted free agent when we signed him.  Usually the teams agree to a sign and trade so the players current team gets something for that player.

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Wasn't Brogdon a restricted free agent when we signed him.  Usually the teams agree to a sign and trade so the players current team gets something for that player.

He was. Teams don’t have to do that though especially if the team doesn’t have the cap space. 

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On 7/9/2022 at 12:08 PM, DC2345 said:

Agreed. I just don’t understand the perception that restricted free agency is stealing a teams player that is floated around by casual fans on Twitter and historically Herb Simon. 

Simon seems to think so. Reportedly he wants to include compensation for Ayton. Same deal as with the Brogdon signing. Sometimes it feels like as a Pacer fan we are competing with ourselves.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Brogdon hasn’t taken his physical so technically we don’t have the cap space yet it seems. Sadly it looks like the deal is happening.

Why sadly because the me it is a great deal.  A 24 year old 6'11 guy who is athletic and runs the floor well.  He has averaged 17 and 10 and had a great year a year ago and played well in the playoffs including the finals.  I liked him since he was at Arizona and thought he had great foot work and good turn around jumper. I thought he looked like a young Akeem Oluguwan.

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47 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Why sadly because the me it is a great deal.  A 24 year old 6'11 guy who is athletic and runs the floor well.  He has averaged 17 and 10 and had a great year a year ago and played well in the playoffs including the finals.  I liked him since he was at Arizona and thought he had great foot work and good turn around jumper. I thought he looked like a young Akeem Oluguwan.

Because max contracts to me are for real star players. You could get 18&10 from a couple mid level exception type guys. I mean give me Looney on a 6 million dollar salary over Ayton on 30 some million any day. Not only that but he wore out his welcome with one of the nicest, best coaches in the league in Monte Williams in Phoenix…he prioritizes his video games over his craft…I just don’t think he loves the game and has the drive for greatness. Phoenix just drafted him a few years ago and they have given up on him after all they invested in him…why is that?? So many red flags here. No doubt he is better than what we have but I can’t help think we will have a head case and in the end investing 30 million in a center that doesn’t effect the game like KAT, Embiid, or Jokic to me is a bad investment. He benefits from others setting him up…he doesn’t initiate much offense on his own. I can’t believe we are going to just throw away money at a center in this day and age…building our team by investing in the least significant position on the floor. That cap space could be used to take on contracts and stock piling draft picks….but this is the Simons….mediocrity and selling a few more tickets is more important than doing the painful work of building a championship caliber contending team

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2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Because max contracts to me are for real star players. You could get 18&10 from a couple mid level exception type guys. I mean give me Looney on a 6 million dollar salary over Ayton on 30 some million any day. Not only that but he wore out his welcome with one of the nicest, best coaches in the league in Monte Williams in Phoenix…he prioritizes his video games over his craft…I just don’t think he loves the game and has the drive for greatness. Phoenix just drafted him a few years ago and they have given up on him after all they invested in him…why is that?? So many red flags here. No doubt he is better than what we have but I can’t help think we will have a head case and in the end investing 30 million in a center that doesn’t effect the game like KAT, Embiid, or Jokic to me is a bad investment. He benefits from others setting him up…he doesn’t initiate much offense on his own. I can’t believe we are going to just throw away money at a center in this day and age…building our team by investing in the least significant position on the floor. That cap space could be used to take on contracts and stock piling draft picks….but this is the Simons….mediocrity and selling a few more tickets is more important than doing the painful work of building a championship caliber contending team

Rather have a player stay up playing video games I stead of being out at a club until 3 in the morning and picking up hooker's. As for the cap hit when we trade Turner that would give us 18 million under the cap.

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Rather have a player stay up playing video games I stead of being out at a club until 3 in the morning and picking up hooker's. As for the cap hit when we trade Turner that would give us 18 million under the cap.

That’s a pretty low threshold for your franchise player there Scott. Max player should be the guy to carry your team and be a leader…Ayton won’t be that. I’ll just be honest…I don’t see him as being that “guy”. Instead of making others better he needs others to make him better imo.
 

I would be shocked if it’s just Turner…I imagine picks will also be involved too. Suppose we will see. Would love to be wrong about the whole thing…but I don’t trust the Pacers…and I definitely don’t trust Ayton after he gets paid. 

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That’s a pretty low threshold for your franchise player there Scott. Max player should be the guy to carry your team and be a leader…Ayton won’t be that. I’ll just be honest…I don’t see him as being that “guy”. Instead of making others better he needs others to make him better imo.
 

I would be shocked if it’s just Turner…I imagine picks will also be involved too. Suppose we will see. Would love to be wrong about the whole thing…but I don’t trust the Pacers…and I definitely don’t trust Ayton after he gets paid. 

Guess we will agree to disagree about Ayton.  I think if he became more of a focal point his numbers will rise.  Ayton has been better early in his career but it would remind me when we got Jermaine O'Neal.    Also the Suns can't ask for to much because we could just sign him to the offer sheet and if the Suns don't match it will lose him for nothing. Pacers would be better off just signing him and get more assets in a trade of Turner.

Edited by IU Scott
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13 hours ago, dgambill said:

Because max contracts to me are for real star players. You could get 18&10 from a couple mid level exception type guys. I mean give me Looney on a 6 million dollar salary over Ayton on 30 some million any day. Not only that but he wore out his welcome with one of the nicest, best coaches in the league in Monte Williams in Phoenix…he prioritizes his video games over his craft…I just don’t think he loves the game and has the drive for greatness. Phoenix just drafted him a few years ago and they have given up on him after all they invested in him…why is that?? So many red flags here. No doubt he is better than what we have but I can’t help think we will have a head case and in the end investing 30 million in a center that doesn’t effect the game like KAT, Embiid, or Jokic to me is a bad investment. He benefits from others setting him up…he doesn’t initiate much offense on his own. I can’t believe we are going to just throw away money at a center in this day and age…building our team by investing in the least significant position on the floor. That cap space could be used to take on contracts and stock piling draft picks….but this is the Simons….mediocrity and selling a few more tickets is more important than doing the painful work of building a championship caliber contending team

Since when is Phoenix the model of winning in the NBA?

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve really enjoyed watching that team the past couple years but I’d also rank them as one of the more poorly run organizations in the league. The past few times we did deals with them fleeced them. 

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The Ayton and Haliburton combination could be a major problem for teams around the league. Haliburton and Ayton are both elite in the pick and roll. The reason to sign Ayton is to help put Haliburton in a situation to help make him great. If you pair them together with some other pieces on the perimeter it could be a solid foundation. 

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3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Since when is Phoenix the model of winning in the NBA?

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve really enjoyed watching that team the past couple years but I’d also rank them as one of the more poorly run organizations in the league. The past few times we did deals with them fleeced them. 

The Craig trade worked out ok…I like Smith…but we paid Warren to sit in street clothes for over 2 years for like 11-12 million a season. All for a couple second round picks.  Not sure that is fleecing them. Especially since that freed them up to pursue Chris Paul. I won’t argue how good Phoenix organization is or is not..I’d say it is on par with the Pacers…but there is enough warning signs there with Ayton to be concerned. It’s also a lot easier to be effective when you are the 3rd or 4th option on a high octane team then being 1st option for us. Who knows…maybe nothing happens…I’ll be happy.

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7 hours ago, Purdue7 said:

Why don’t pacers sign him to an offer sheet ?

Sorry if it’s a stupid question 🙋‍♂️ 

From what I gather the Sun's will match it. The Sun's wants to get assets of or Ayton. He won't sign extension there so he could walk next year and the Sun's get nothing. That's how I understand it but am not very well versed in this at all

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you MUST maximize Hali and his skillset, especially if you are saying he is the leader for the team for the future.  Last night on tv during Summer League, Carlisle mentioned something along the lines of Free Agents now want to come to Indiana to play with Haliburton.  If this is true and you can get Ayton(I assume he is one that Rick is referring to) and bring out even more in Hali and Ayton at same time, next offseason could get real interesting if a few solid FA's want to come here.

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1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

From what I gather the Sun's will match it. The Sun's wants to get assets of or Ayton. He won't sign extension there so he could walk next year and the Sun's get nothing. That's how I understand it but am not very well versed in this at all

Well if the match it then they can't trade Ayton until January so they couldn't use him in a trade for Durant right now.

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