NBA Thread

[FW_Hoosier]

I shouldn’t have doubted VO!  What a game, he does look better than George tonight.

[FKIM01]

Interesting how Oladipo  keeps looking like an elite talent while all the "experts" say he's not...

[KoB2011]

25 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Interesting how Oladipo  keeps looking like an elite talent while all the "experts" say he's not...

It's like he was the #2 pick and in a good situation for him for the first time as a pro or something.... 

[Danomatic]

Eric Gordon knocks down the game winner!

[hoosierBGH]

19 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I can't say at this point. PG made clear he wants to go "home" to pay for the Lakers. After the way Bird flubbed everyone and ruined the Pacers, I frankly cannot and do not blame PG for leaving, at all. No other franchise (well, maybe Sacramento....) would be so ridiculously stupid in the way they treat their franchise player. Bird is a self-centered, stubborn fool. Now if the Thunder end up excelling (after some gel time) and do well, I think PG could well stay with the Thunder -- he wants to win. As to what the Pacers got, I love Vic, probably my favorite Hoosier ever, but he's clearly not on PG's level, he's not a franchise player, and we're 3 games into an 82 game season. I hope he excels, I'm rooting for him, and I hope he works out for the Pacers, but the Pacers have more building to do.

PG was never, ever going to stay with the Pacer's long term. He always had one foot out the door. Frankly, the Pacer's are better off long term without him. As the Thunder and likely the Lakers eventually will find out, PG is fools gold. All the talent in the world but not nearly enough heart and way too much self absorption. 

[IU Scott]

Last night you could tell that the Pacers were on the second night of a back to back.  Also with the Thunder being at home with time off you could expect a game like last night.  The Pacers played hard and was able to compete for  a couple of quarters but did not have the legs at the end to win.

[KoB2011]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Last night you could tell that the Pacers were on the second night of a back to back.  Also with the Thunder being at home with time off you could expect a game like last night.  The Pacers played hard and was able to compete for  a couple of quarters but did not have the legs at the end to win.

They were also still missing Turner. Turner could very well be a legit 20/10/3 guy this year, so that's a big loss. 

He and Vic should thrive getting to be the main guys. Vic certainly is thriving so far. There is a reason Vic was the second pick of the draft and a NPOTY - he doesn't lack for any physical tools. There's no reason he can't be a top 2 or 3 shooting guard in the NBA. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by KoB2011

[ADegenerate]

Is it just me or does Vic look slimmed down? Seems more fit and agile to me. I'm sure he put some serious work in during the off season.

[Hoosierhoopster]

It was great to see Vic have a 'revenge' game against the Thunder, showed a lot of his promise. Here's to hoping he can continue to build on that kind of game. Meanwhile PG had an aberational foul-plagued game. Will be interesting to see how the two teams, and Vic and PG play in the next game. It's really early in the season, but Vic's definitely showing promise. I don't see the P's making the playoffs, but if Turner comes back healthy and Vic continues to ball like this, then just maybe. Keep at it Vic!

[IUALUM03]

15 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

 

Don't look now, but Gordon averaging over 24/pts per game.  God only knows what sort of player he could have been prior, if he was able to stay healthy. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by IUALUM03

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

3 minutes ago, IUALUM03 said:

Don't look now, but Gordon averaging over 24/pts per game.  God only know what sort of player he could have been prior, if he was able to stay healthy. 

The marriage with Houston has been very good.

[Hoosierhoopster]

^^ It seems like it's been forever, but way back when it was EJ that the Clips traded to get CPIII. EJ then was looking like a top 2-3 2-guard, but then he was injured every year until last season when he had that great break-out year with Houston. He is back to being incredibly explosive to the rim. Have watched him play live, and man the phrase "down hill" applies so well to his game -- he just explodes to the rim. Now that he's been healthy for some time, I think it's fair to say he is again one of the better 2-guards in the NBA. He's not that strong defensively, but he's no slouch on that end either.

[Hoosierhoopster]

6 hours ago, hoosierBGH said:

PG was never, ever going to stay with the Pacer's long term. He always had one foot out the door. Frankly, the Pacer's are better off long term without him. As the Thunder and likely the Lakers eventually will find out, PG is fools gold. All the talent in the world but not nearly enough heart and way too much self absorption. 

I don't think that's true, and it is contrary to what PG and various players were saying before Bird gutted the Pacers. After Bird traded away everyone, literally everyone PG played with, and the team around him was mediocre at best, then yes, it became clear he was leaving. Don't forget how good that Pacers team was with Hill, West, Hibbert, Granger et al. The downfall began when Bird meaninglessly traded Granger mid-season - when the Pacers had the best record in the League -- for EvanTurner, who couldn't play D against my grandmother and was a terrible fit. Granger was PG's mentor, Bird did the move without even talking to PG or any other player about it, and it pissed PG off, as he has recently confirmed. Bird then went on to belittle Hibbert publicly, for no reason whatsoever, forcing him out and in publicly dissing him making sure that P's got nothing in return, and pissing off West to the point that West left for San Antonio for a $1M deal, leaving something like $10M on the table. West also publicly expressed disgust with the way Bird treated HIbbert. Then Bird trades away, among others, G Hill -- PG's best friend on the team not to mention an outstanding defender and a very good 3-point corner shooter, for Teague -- clearly a failed experiment, after Atlanta wanted Teague gone, and Teague and PG did not gel at all, while Teague pounded the air out of the ball. Meanwhile Bird had brought in Andrew Bynum, and then Monta Ellis. Brilliant moves. 

It's so easy to target PG's attitude. What would his attitude have been if Bird wasn't deconstructing the Conf Finals team and pissing off and trading everyone around PG? Bird destroyed the team, and then ran out the door knowing PG was going to leave. Blame belongs squarely with Bird.

[Billingsley99]

23 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't think that's true, and it is contrary to what PG and various players were saying before Bird gutted the Pacers. After Bird traded away everyone, literally everyone PG played with, and the team around him was mediocre at best, then yes, it became clear he was leaving. Don't forget how good that Pacers team was with Hill, West, Hibbert, Granger et al. The downfall began when Bird meaninglessly traded Granger mid-season - when the Pacers had the best record in the League -- for EvanTurner, who couldn't play D against my grandmother and was a terrible fit. Granger was PG's mentor, Bird did the move without even talking to PG or any other player about it, and it pissed PG off, as he has recently confirmed. Bird then went on to belittle Hibbert publicly, for no reason whatsoever, forcing him out and in publicly dissing him making sure that P's got nothing in return, and pissing off West to the point that West left for San Antonio for a $1M deal, leaving something like $10M on the table. West also publicly expressed disgust with the way Bird treated HIbbert. Then Bird trades away, among others, G Hill -- PG's best friend on the team not to mention an outstanding defender and a very good 3-point corner shooter, for Teague -- clearly a failed experiment, after Atlanta wanted Teague gone, and Teague and PG did not gel at all, while Teague pounded the air out of the ball. Meanwhile Bird had brought in Andrew Bynum, and then Monta Ellis. Brilliant moves. 

It's so easy to target PG's attitude. What would his attitude have been if Bird wasn't deconstructing the Conf Finals team and pissing off and trading everyone around PG? Bird destroyed the team, and then ran out the door knowing PG was going to leave. Blame belongs squarely with Bird.

I agree completelywith all you are saying.  The last couple years left a bad impression in my mind with the lack of effort he displayed.  I think this was a win win trade for all involved.   We own 4 PG jerseys and still waznt the best for him

[hoosierBGH]

56 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't think that's true, and it is contrary to what PG and various players were saying before Bird gutted the Pacers. After Bird traded away everyone, literally everyone PG played with, and the team around him was mediocre at best, then yes, it became clear he was leaving. Don't forget how good that Pacers team was with Hill, West, Hibbert, Granger et al. The downfall began when Bird meaninglessly traded Granger mid-season - when the Pacers had the best record in the League -- for EvanTurner, who couldn't play D against my grandmother and was a terrible fit. Granger was PG's mentor, Bird did the move without even talking to PG or any other player about it, and it pissed PG off, as he has recently confirmed. Bird then went on to belittle Hibbert publicly, for no reason whatsoever, forcing him out and in publicly dissing him making sure that P's got nothing in return, and pissing off West to the point that West left for San Antonio for a $1M deal, leaving something like $10M on the table. West also publicly expressed disgust with the way Bird treated HIbbert. Then Bird trades away, among others, G Hill -- PG's best friend on the team not to mention an outstanding defender and a very good 3-point corner shooter, for Teague -- clearly a failed experiment, after Atlanta wanted Teague gone, and Teague and PG did not gel at all, while Teague pounded the air out of the ball. Meanwhile Bird had brought in Andrew Bynum, and then Monta Ellis. Brilliant moves. 

It's so easy to target PG's attitude. What would his attitude have been if Bird wasn't deconstructing the Conf Finals team and pissing off and trading everyone around PG? Bird destroyed the team, and then ran out the door knowing PG was going to leave. Blame belongs squarely with Bird.

PG has said a lot of things but most of what he said did not fit his actions on or off the court. That great Pacers team that Bird blew up was never going to be better than 2nd in the East to Lebron's teams. Bird realizing this and the way the NBA was trending toward small ball, tried to do something about it , though it didn't work out. Hibbert and PG are perfect representatives of that team, both physically gifted, both talented (though PG clearly more so) and both mentally soft and weak. When faced with adversity they chose to pout and whine instead of digging deeper and working harder. Hibbert's soft play and lack of effort on far too many nights should have earned him being called out long before then. The worst part about it is that Hibbert had the tools and could really bring it when he wanted to, he just didn't want to most of the time. Being the competitor Bird is, I'm surprised he tolerated that crap for as long as he did. The house cleaning was long overdue IMO and trading PG was a big, important part of it.  As Turner's recent comments suggest, Instead of buying in and providing leadership to the young talent being built around him, PG decides to sulk on the court and in the locker room and sabotage his own trade value. Luckily the Thunder were dumb enough to trade for him anyway.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, hoosierBGH said:

PG has said a lot of things but most of what he said did not fit his actions on or off the court. That great Pacers team that Bird blew up was never going to be better than 2nd in the East to Lebron's teams. Bird realizing this and the way the NBA was trending toward small ball, tried to do something about it , though it didn't work out. Hibbert and PG are perfect representatives of that team, both physically gifted, both talented (though PG clearly more so) and both mentally soft and weak. When faced with adversity they chose to pout and whine instead of digging deeper and working harder. Hibbert's soft play and lack of effort on far too many nights should have earned him being called out long before then. The worst part about it is that Hibbert had the tools and could really bring it when he wanted to, he just didn't want to most of the time. Being the competitor Bird is, I'm surprised he tolerated that crap for as long as he did. The house cleaning was long overdue IMO and trading PG was a big, important part of it.  As Turner's recent comments suggest, Instead of buying in and providing leadership to the young talent being built around him, PG decides to sulk on the court and in the locker room and sabotage his own trade value. Luckily the Thunder were dumb enough to trade for him anyway.

In all fairness, calling PG mentally soft and weak is just your subjective opinion, and one with which I could not disagree more. You don't have the numbers he's had, on both sides of the ball, you don't carry a team like he has, on both sides of the ball, and you don't dominate the playoffs, as he clearly has,  if you're mentally soft and weak. Hibbert, in stark contrast, was not mentally strong, it was his downfall, and it's too bad. Bird's moves were stupid, there's really no way around that, and it's why he ran out the door. The idea that the Thunder were dumb to trade for him, well, OK man. I guess when the Thunder go on their run, largely because of PG coupled with Westbrook, it will be just dumb luck. I don't really get why you go to such lengths to try to undermine what a clearly impactful player PG was and is, he is clearly regarded as one of the top players in the League, because he is. As a Pacers fan, maybe it's just time to move on without all the belittling stuff.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't think that's true, and it is contrary to what PG and various players were saying before Bird gutted the Pacers. After Bird traded away everyone, literally everyone PG played with, and the team around him was mediocre at best, then yes, it became clear he was leaving. Don't forget how good that Pacers team was with Hill, West, Hibbert, Granger et al. The downfall began when Bird meaninglessly traded Granger mid-season - when the Pacers had the best record in the League -- for EvanTurner, who couldn't play D against my grandmother and was a terrible fit. Granger was PG's mentor, Bird did the move without even talking to PG or any other player about it, and it pissed PG off, as he has recently confirmed. Bird then went on to belittle Hibbert publicly, for no reason whatsoever, forcing him out and in publicly dissing him making sure that P's got nothing in return, and pissing off West to the point that West left for San Antonio for a $1M deal, leaving something like $10M on the table. West also publicly expressed disgust with the way Bird treated HIbbert. Then Bird trades away, among others, G Hill -- PG's best friend on the team not to mention an outstanding defender and a very good 3-point corner shooter, for Teague -- clearly a failed experiment, after Atlanta wanted Teague gone, and Teague and PG did not gel at all, while Teague pounded the air out of the ball. Meanwhile Bird had brought in Andrew Bynum, and then Monta Ellis. Brilliant moves. 

It's so easy to target PG's attitude. What would his attitude have been if Bird wasn't deconstructing the Conf Finals team and pissing off and trading everyone around PG? Bird destroyed the team, and then ran out the door knowing PG was going to leave. Blame belongs squarely with Bird.

For what it's worth, people in Indianapolis we're almost universally ready for PG to move on. Especially those that follow the Pacers closely. 

It seems like you get most of your NBA news from national media that rarely covers the Pacers, yeah? Check out what ALL the local guys that cover them daily thought. Check out what other fans thought. Most the Indy folks on this board pretty much come down on the same side of the PG issue. 

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

In all fairness, calling PG mentally soft and weak is just your subjective opinion, and one with which I could not disagree more. You don't have the numbers he's had, on both sides of the ball, you don't carry a team like he has, on both sides of the ball, and you don't dominate the playoffs, as he clearly has,  if you're mentally soft and weak. Hibbert, in stark contrast, was not mentally strong, it was his downfall, and it's too bad. Bird's moves were stupid, there's really no way around that, and it's why he ran out the door. The idea that the Thunder were dumb to trade for him, well, OK man. I guess when the Thunder go on their run, largely because of PG coupled with Westbrook, it will be just dumb luck. I don't really get why you go to such lengths to try to undermine what a clearly impactful player PG was and is, he is clearly regarded as one of the top players in the League, because he is. As a Pacers fan, maybe it's just time to move on without all the belittling stuff.

He never carried the Pacers though. He had three other borderline All-Stars in a weak East and lost to the first good team he played. 

Then when he had a chance to carry them, they got dominated back to back years. Spare me what his numbers where or that the games were close, that's Purdue stuff. We got knocked out with no resistance the two years he had a chance to carry us and last year only even made it because of Lance. You can't lose every game you play and dominant a series. 

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

In all fairness, calling PG mentally soft and weak is just your subjective opinion, and one with which I could not disagree more. You don't have the numbers he's had, on both sides of the ball, you don't carry a team like he has, on both sides of the ball, and you don't dominate the playoffs, as he clearly has,  if you're mentally soft and weak. Hibbert, in stark contrast, was not mentally strong, it was his downfall, and it's too bad. Bird's moves were stupid, there's really no way around that, and it's why he ran out the door. The idea that the Thunder were dumb to trade for him, well, OK man. I guess when the Thunder go on their run, largely because of PG coupled with Westbrook, it will be just dumb luck. I don't really get why you go to such lengths to try to undermine what a clearly impactful player PG was and is, he is clearly regarded as one of the top players in the League, because he is. As a Pacers fan, maybe it's just time to move on without all the belittling stuff.

her in Indy there are a lot people around the team who disagree with about PG mentality.  The public address announcer for the Pacers and has a talk show talked about how PG was not mentally tough.  Heard one long time journalist Mark Montieth who said he always backed PG but looking at it that PG had one foot out the door every since he joined the pacers.

[IU Scott]

Also did anyone else get tire do the Pacers broadcast last night because Quinn Buckner is so annoying on the broadcast.  He was whining about every call last night and he cuts off the play by play guy all the time.  Also noticed that PG was his old self last night constantly whining to the officials last night.

[Coach1K]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Also did anyone else get tire do the Pacers broadcast last night because Quinn Buckner is so annoying on the broadcast.  He was whining about every call last night and he cuts off the play by play guy all the time.  Also noticed that PG was his old self last night constantly whining to the officials last night.

My dad was saying the same thing on Buckner last night while watching the game.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Coach1K said:

My dad was saying the same thing on Buckner last night while watching the game.

He seems to get worse every year. A few weeks back I was watching an old IU game in the 92 tournament and Buckner was doing the game.  He did a very good job then but he is going downhill lately.

[Hoosierhoopster]

57 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

He never carried the Pacers though. He had three other borderline All-Stars in a weak East and lost to the first good team he played. 

Then when he had a chance to carry them, they got dominated back to back years. Spare me what his numbers where or that the games were close, that's Purdue stuff. We got knocked out with no resistance the two years he had a chance to carry us and last year only even made it because of Lance. You can't lose every game you play and dominant a series. 

No man, we've gone over this before, and I just don't get the revisionist history. He was often the leading scorer and was clearly the star. Where were you? I've been, religiously, a Pacers fan since the late 80s. I'm not sitting around looking up national news, and I lived in Indiana until I was in my early 20s. Come on now. Lose every game you play? What? For whatever reason, you are hell bent against Paul George. I get that. 

In the spirit of how positive this board has been since we moved over to this new site, this is where I stop on PG. We're not going to agree!

[Hoosierhoopster]

33 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

He seems to get worse every year. A few weeks back I was watching an old IU game in the 92 tournament and Buckner was doing the game.  He did a very good job then but he is going downhill lately.

It's odd, maybe he's getting bitter? He used to be terrific (and he remains one of my favorite all time Hoosiers).

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

No man, we've gone over this before, and I just don't get the revisionist history. He was often the leading scorer and was clearly the star. Where were you? I've been, religiously, a Pacers fan since the late 80s. I'm not sitting around looking up national news, and I lived in Indiana until I was in my early 20s. Come on now. Lose every game you play? What? For whatever reason, you are hell bent against Paul George. I get that. 

In the spirit of how positive this board has been since we moved over to this new site, this is where I stop on PG. We're not going to agree!

I'm not sure how growing up in Indiana impacts where you get your news today? You often reference listening to national radio shows, have never seen you mention listening to Grady and Big Joe, Dakich, JMV or any other local radio shows. 

And yes, the past two seasons the Pacers went 3-8 in the playoffs. Maybe hardly winning a game was strong, but they haven't been competitive. You were touting PG as a playoff stud. 

Here's the thing, I'm not anti-PG at all. I think he's a top 15-20 player. That seems pretty in line with where most NBA guys have him. You saying he's a clear top 10 guy, aka an elite guy, seems to be the one letting your feelings about him impact your argument. 

Either way, I'm out on the PG talk as well. Here's to a great Pacers (and Hoosiers) season!