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Who was your MVP vs MSU ?


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10 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Green shot a 3 the first time we cut it to 2 that was totally out of flow. I’m glad he hit the 3s but don’t forget he came up short on our final shot. 

Not knocking him overall he came up big. But Smith scored all of our FGs for 14+ minutes. And still scored 8 points second half. We got a great half from Green. We got a great game from Smith

You're knocking him if you're talking about the final shot. He missed it, big deal? It was a good look that he created late in the clock; sometimes guys miss shots. 

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I'm going to go with CAM for not letting this team fold, and in spite of all of the people saying DG and JS should never play again he stuck with them. I know a lot of posters have apologized for their bashing of DG and JS but I have yet to see one poster apologize for bashing CAM playing them! Don't get me wrong I've been as p..... as anyone about the play of those two but I have never doubted CAM.

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2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You're knocking him if you're talking about the final shot. He missed it, big deal? It was a good look that he created late in the clock; sometimes guys miss shots. 

Agreed. But we’re talkkng about who deserves the MVP. Not whether or not green played good. He did. Smith played a lot better

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14 hours ago, Drroogh said:

I'm going to go with CAM for not letting this team fold, and in spite of all of the people saying DG and JS should never play again he stuck with them. I know a lot of posters have apologized for their bashing of DG and JS but I have yet to see one poster apologize for bashing CAM playing them! Don't get me wrong I've been as p..... as anyone about the play of those two but I have never doubted CAM.

Well, to be fair, Archie did continue to play those guys for most of that losing streak, and they were a pretty big reason why we were losing. Sitting them down and cutting their PT seemed to switch a light on, though, so he also gets credit for that move. It could also be huge for next year. If those two can play solid ball and show some leadership as upperclassmen, we'll be looking at a much better team overall. 

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14 hours ago, Drroogh said:

I'm going to go with CAM for not letting this team fold, and in spite of all of the people saying DG and JS should never play again he stuck with them. I know a lot of posters have apologized for their bashing of DG and JS but I have yet to see one poster apologize for bashing CAM playing them! Don't get me wrong I've been as p..... as anyone about the play of those two but I have never doubted CAM.

Counterpoint, when CAM finally stopped playing them, we got this type of performance out of them.  I was never arguing throughout the slide to bench them forever, I was arguing to use the bench to adjust what I perceived to be an attitude issue on their part.

We are better positioned to win if Green and Smith play well as opposed to Anderson and Forrester.  But Smith and Green have to understand what their role is and how one earns the right to that role.  Smith mentioned a different approach to practicing, I do not think that adjustment occurs on his part if he did not see his minutes reduced.

Food for thought, do we have a less drastic collapse if Miller sits those 2 earlier in the slide?  Yeah, we probably still lose several because Anderson and Forrester are not ready.  Maybe though the turn around happens sooner.

As far as MVP, mine is Smith.  He played 2 halves as someone mentioned above and Green's big shots mean nothing if Smith had not kept us in the game in the first half.  Frankly, he put his team on his back like I was expecting Juwan and Romeo to do a bit more of this year.  We are looking at a really big scoring drought in the first half without him.

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1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Counterpoint, when CAM finally stopped playing them, we got this type of performance out of them.  I was never arguing throughout the slide to bench them forever, I was arguing to use the bench to adjust what I perceived to be an attitude issue on their part.

We are better positioned to win if Green and Smith play well as opposed to Anderson and Forrester.  But Smith and Green have to understand what their role is and how one earns the right to that role.  Smith mentioned a different approach to practicing, I do not think that adjustment occurs on his part if he did not see his minutes reduced.

Food for thought, do we have a less drastic collapse if Miller sits those 2 earlier in the slide?  Yeah, we probably still lose several because Anderson and Forrester are not ready.  Maybe though the turn around happens sooner.

As far as MVP, mine is Smith.  He played 2 halves as someone mentioned above and Green's big shots mean nothing if Smith had not kept us in the game in the first half.  Frankly, he put his team on his back like I was expecting Juwan and Romeo to do a bit more of this year.  We are looking at a really big scoring drought in the first half without him.

I know you alluded to this, but the counterpoint is that Archie needed Phinisee, Davis and Thompson to be healthy in order to be able to sit Green and Smith. This is why the injuries were so impactful to the season. Once Phinisee began playing like his old self, Green’s minutes dropped. Once Davis, and probably more importantly Race, got healthy Smith’s minutes dropped. 

I know people were calling for Damezi, Forrester and Moore, but I think at this point it’s crystal clear that those guys aren’t ready. 

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14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I know you alluded to this, but the counterpoint is that Archie needed Phinisee, Davis and Thompson to be healthy in order to be able to sit Green and Smith. This is why the injuries were so impactful to the season. Once Phinisee began playing like his old self, Green’s minutes dropped. Once Davis, and probably more importantly Race, got healthy Smith’s minutes dropped. 

I know people were calling for Damezi, Forrester and Moore, but I think at this point it’s crystal clear that those guys aren’t ready. 

I think 5fouls wants us to play Romeo, Cliff and 3 team managers. 

He seems to have a man crush on those two.  Lol

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I know you alluded to this, but the counterpoint is that Archie needed Phinisee, Davis and Thompson to be healthy in order to be able to sit Green and Smith. This is why the injuries were so impactful to the season. Once Phinisee began playing like his old self, Green’s minutes dropped. Once Davis, and probably more importantly Race, got healthy Smith’s minutes dropped. 

I know people were calling for Damezi, Forrester and Moore, but I think at this point it’s crystal clear that those guys aren’t ready. 

Disagree.  You think we needed them healthy for a chance to win the game even if we sat Green and Smith.  My point is that we were losing anyway and what we really needed was Smith and Green to change how they were approaching things.  Miller waited until he got those guys back because he apparently thought he could not win without Smith and Green with those other guys down.  I do not think (and our record seems to support) that we could win with the version of Smith and Green that we saw for the majority of that skid.

All of us calling for those guys were not calling for them because we think or thought they are ready.  We were calling for them because our best chance to win was for Smith and Green to get their ish together and sometimes the only way to speak to a player is through the metaphoric bench splinters in his behind.  We cannot win consistently without Green and Smith being dialed in whether we have Race, Deron, and Rob (2 of whom barely played yesterday) or not.  I think it would have been far better to try something different (and still lose) then continue giving minutes to Smith and Green that they were not earning.

We will never know but I think my approach may have won us an extra 1 to 3 games which would be huge right now for tournament chances.

 

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