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Illinois Postgame Thread


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3 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

And Victor Oladipo, above, below or equal to White?

Here's a kid who worked his rear off to become a player we never saw before starting his career at IU.  I remember one Couch Coach on John Decker's Hoosier Nation saying after watching Vic throw down dunks at a Frat house.... words to the effect... "That's all he's got.... he'll never amount to anything".  Because of his work ethic ( not saying D.J. didn't have it either), and the fact that all kinds of awards came Vic's way, his Junior year, rather than D.J. his freshman year.... I would place Vic above D.J. on my list.  But still not in icon status. 

Love Vic.  Love D.J. 

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5 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

I understand your point here Mile and the vast majority of time I agree with you.  However, I have a different take.  

I appreciate these young men who agree to represent IUBB and cheer for them so long as they are here.  But let's not kid ourselves, for those with the God given ability to also create a great financial situation for themselves by moving on to the NBA, they would be foolish to not take advantage.  After all, for those attending IU who do not play sports, isn't  the point of their attendance to create a career for themselves.   Isn't that what we did.  I just don't understand the point of criticism if they choose to leave early whether 1, 2, or 3 yr.  I don't want to adopt the model of UK or Duke and have a team full of them, but a few here and there added to long term players who a quite capable at the D1 level but probably won't make it in the NBA seems to be the perfect mix for adding NCAAT banners.  I thought that's what we all wanted so long as it is done within the rules.

I appreciate those who are playing and have played in the past regardless of the number of years they were here and wish them only the best when they leave.  And this is coming from someone who has absolutely no interest in the NBA or NFL for that matter.  I only have interest in collegiate sports.  Never pay any attention to Pro sports.  

I understand. Point being.... NBA.... get rid of the one and done rule.  It is not serving IU...when we go after a kid, we know will not be here to help our program as a Junior of Senior.

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1 minute ago, milehiiu said:

Here's a kid who worked his rear off to become a player we never saw before starting his career at IU.  I remember one Couch Coach on John Decker's Hoosier Nation saying after watching Vic throw down dunks at a Frat house.... words to the effect... "That's all he's got.... he'll never amount to anything".  Because of his work ethic ( not saying D.J. didn't have it either), and the fact that all kinds of awards came Vic's way, his Junior year, rather than D.J. his freshman year.... I would place Vic above D.J. on my list.  But still not in icon status. 

Love Vic.  Love D.J. 

You're a fair man.

Given your initial list, it was easy to assume you were biased towards players who maximized their eligibility. It's easy to include DJ as a modern incarnation of that, while discounting Vic for leaving early. But, there's a little curveball in there.

DJ only played 5 games his sophomore year. By the rules at the time, that burned his redshirt. He could have petitioned the NCAA and there's about a 95% chance he could have played a 5th Year. (Saying this is not a knock on White, btw. He's probably my favorite IU player of all time. That lost sophomore season of his was my Sr year at IU, and it killed me not being able to see what he and Killingsworth could do together.)

Both he and Victor played more or less 3 seasons, earned degrees and went to the NBA. And you mentioned neither. You judged both on their merit, objectively. Shouldn't have doubted you.

 

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4 hours ago, milehiiu said:

  ^^^  KoB.

Honestly feel you are conflating things now.  If a Kelley student leaves school, for what ever reason.... the only people that would be aware, would be his family and perhaps a small circle of friends.  He is not in the spotlight like an IUBB player, let alone representing the University in a public venue. Much less have the opportunity to do something to lift up the premier sports program of the University.

By the way.  Since you mentioned the military.  When I was in school.... there was a thing you might never have heard of.... called the draft.  I chose to finish my degree.  And, then... the first thing I did was to enlist for the military.  Sorry. I placed IU over the U.S. Army.  But, they both were happy to have me in their own ways. 

I'm not conflating anything. People being aware is irrelevant; it's either okay to leave school early or it isn't. You admitting you only care when it is something that impacts you, as in a basketball player, is the evidence of you being more concerned with your self-interest than you are in seeing a young person succeed; the point of college is to enable people to succeed. YOU are the antithesis of the purpose of Indiana University. 

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1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

From my perspective, this debate has gotten a little salty...and it's mostly covering ground that's been covered many times.  Agree to disagree maybe?

There's one guy who makes a habit of bringing this back up and bashing young people; that's the problem. 

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4 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Ohh, You got me.  I don't live in Indiana... now.  But I have been an avid IU fan for decades, and Life Time Member of the IUAA.  And I saw the impact Romeo had on the IU fan base long before ever donning the Candy Strips. Followed him pretty closely, as a matter of fact. Read the stories and watched the videos of his games, and post game meet and greets. Watched and read about the BB court being named after him.  Even conversed with people who know and talk to his parents. So don't give me that, I was not aware of his impact before IU, just because I don't live in the great state of Indiana, any longer.

So.... what constitutes an IU icon ?   I will give some examples.  All of which, though I live in Colorado now.... I have seen with my own eyes.  Guys that have accomplished things in an IU uniform, that Romeo will never come close to accomplishing in an IU uniform. Romeo would have to stay for more than one year, and in some cases two or more years, in order to accomplish what some of  these guys did :

Jimmy Rayl....  Two time IU game scoring record. I saw both times he scored 56 points.

Don Schlunt... I was a youngster when Don became a three time All-American for IU.

Steve Alford.... Concensus All-American.

Walt Bellamy..... I watched as "The Big Bell" became not one but a two time Big Ten player of the year.

Kent Benson.... Two time All-American.

Calbert Cheaney.... National Player of the Year ---- and, IU's leading all time scorer.

Archie Dees..... I watched him as he became, not one but a two time Big Ten MVP.

Scott May.... 2 TIme Concensus All-American.

^^^^^^ These, good people of Hoosier Sports Nation are what I consider to be IU icons. 

I'm not all that interested in the discussion, but, Mile, leaving the Mighty Quinn off the list?  106-8 while on the team, a natty and the last undefeated? The brick wall on defense? My all time favorite IU player. Quinn Buckner, the Mighty Quinn.

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2 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

We curb stomped Illinois!  Wooohoooo, yay!!! Go us!!!!!

We improved 10 points from when we beat them in AH. I don't care what anyone says, a road win in this conference is important. We're getting to looking good at the right point in the season. We've got something going on. That's what I think, anyway.

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For those of us feeling nostalgic. I'm hoping Teamwork Orange is drowning himself somewhere. That nut job is the reason I can't go to Illinois boards ever again. My hats to those on here who choose to look or read that idiocy of hoops knowledge but wow......he Harv, Math....couple others are so far gone. 

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Finally had the opportunity to watch the IU UI game, wow that was fun, but suddenly I    have      this        urge        to      discuss        the         statistical           analysis             of            what               constitutes                                an                                      Indiana                                               Legend???     😖 Some Zombie feeling passing through me. Maybe because I drive through Senoia, GA  the town that hosts  the LIVING DEAD series every day???

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9 hours ago, Indykev said:

The cheap shot that got DeRon fired up last night

 

 

I think it should be noted that the cheap shot on Deron was the SECOND offensive foul committed by #15 Illinois in that TEN SECOND clip. Generally the refereeing was fine, for a B10 conference game, but Illinois definitely got some fairly blatant home cooking.

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1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

For those of us feeling nostalgic. I'm hoping Teamwork Orange is drowning himself somewhere. That nut job is the reason I can't go to Illinois boards ever again. My hats to those on here who choose to look or read that idiocy of hoops knowledge but wow......he Harv, Math....couple others are so far gone. 

That nutjob is still out there? Oy.....

He's got the devotion of HTD, only minus about 50 IQ points, plus a lobotomy, plus LSD.

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9 hours ago, Mac said:

I'm not all that interested in the discussion, but, Mile, leaving the Mighty Quinn off the list?  106-8 while on the team, a natty and the last undefeated? The brick wall on defense? My all time favorite IU player. Quinn Buckner, the Mighty Quinn.

I admit I failed when i left the MIghty Quinn off the list. Going off memory is my only excuse.  Just forgot.  And my bad. Please accept my apologies. He... for sure belongs on the list.  Thanks. 

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7 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

That nutjob is still out there? Oy.....

He's got the devotion of HTD, only minus about 50 IQ points, plus a lobotomy, plus LSD.

There was a time during Gordon recruitment (pre/post) I was literally getting messages from a few of those idiots. Not saying Ted Kaczynksi level but very odd and very strange. Orange was just one of them. Their old Scout board had about 7-8 sociopaths.

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8 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

There was a time during Gordon recruitment (pre/post) I was literally getting messages from a few of those idiots. Not saying Ted Kaczynksi level but very odd and very strange. Orange was just one of them. Their old Scout board had about 7-8 sociopaths.

Want to know why I dislike the Illini fan base as I do ?  Try being a moderator of an IU board at that time.  Literally staying up all night to keep the board clean of sick trolling by Illinois sociopaths.  Not to mention the sick.... and I mean sick private messages I received for months and months. 

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Just now, milehiiu said:

Want to know why I dislike the Illini fan base as I do ?  Try being a moderator of an IU board at that time.  Literally staying up all night to keep the board clean of sick trolling by Illinois sociopaths.  Not to mention the sick.... and I mean sick private messages I received for months and months. 

I bet. Can only imagine what you and others had to deal with. Funny part is they still reference Gordon recruitment as beginning of the end for them. 

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9 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I bet. Can only imagine what you and others had to deal with. Funny part is they still reference Gordon recruitment as beginning of the end for them. 

It's the reason John Decker asked me to become a mod.  He and his buddy (The Fourth Estate) were traveling to Chicago to cover IU. And knew Hoosier Nation would be attacked while they were on the road to and from. They had been dealing with the Illini trolls. And wanted someone to watch over the board when they were on the road.  CraigHoops was also made a moderator at that time.  Except, due to the time differential in Hawaii... it was a little easier for him. 

And yes.  I have seen them continue to mention Gordon to this day.  Funny thing. I have a very good relationship to this day, with one of their mods.  Born out of the Gordon fire storm. 

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10 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

It's the reason John Decker asked me to become a mod.  He and his buddy (The Fourth Estate) were traveling to Chicago to cover IU. And knew Hoosier Nation would be attacked while they were on the road to and from. They had been dealing with the Illini trolls. And wanted someone to watch over the board when they were on the road.  CraigHoops was also made a moderator at that time.  Except, due to the time differential in Hawaii... it was a little easier for him. 

And yes.  I have seen them continue to mention Gordon to this day.  Funny thing. I have a very good relationship to this day, with one of their mods.  Born out of the Gordon fire storm. 

One of my good friends buddies used to own/run one of the sites. After the Gordon/Sampson recruitment....he gave up his Illini site. Couldn't deal with all of the headaches, issues, grown adults acting like kids,etc....literally every minute of the day was consumed by deleting posts, banning posters,etc...and trying to explain to the masses why posters were getting the boot. 

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12 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

One of my good friends buddies used to own/run one of the sites. After the Gordon/Sampson recruitment....he gave up his Illini site. Couldn't deal with all of the headaches, issues, grown adults acting like kids,etc....literally every minute of the day was consumed by deleting posts, banning posters,etc...and trying to explain to the masses why posters were getting the boot. 

I can relate.  And the Illinois fans, by far, were the worst. No other fan base even comes close. 

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2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Want to know why I dislike the Illini fan base as I do ?  Try being a moderator of an IU board at that time.  Literally staying up all night to keep the board clean of sick trolling by Illinois sociopaths.  Not to mention the sick.... and I mean sick private messages I received for months and months. 

God, I remember that like it was yesterday. They were a vile lot, that’s for sure, and they just seemed to come in droves.

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13 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Here's a kid who worked his rear off to become a player we never saw before starting his career at IU.  I remember one Couch Coach on John Decker's Hoosier Nation saying after watching Vic throw down dunks at a Frat house.... words to the effect... "That's all he's got.... he'll never amount to anything".  Because of his work ethic ( not saying D.J. didn't have it either), and the fact that all kinds of awards came Vic's way, his Junior year, rather than D.J. his freshman year.... I would place Vic above D.J. on my list.  But still not in icon status. 

Love Vic.  Love D.J. 

Vic need work on the offensive end - the recruiting experts always said he was a freak athlete who was dedicated on the defensive end.  When someone has a tenacious defensive mindset with the athletic ability he had it is a no brainer.  He was raw at the game, but the kid, like you said, was a gym rat.  It also helps that he has an extrovert personality and loves the spot light.  100% effort and that is why he is one of my favorite hoosiers of all time. 

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I have a hard time biting my tongue when the issue of one and dones come up because it’s so hypocritical.

First of all it’s a false equivalency if one were to say a kid using the university as a stepping stone is the same as the university using the kid. It’s not. The NCAA and Universities are BY FAR the bigger beneficiaries monetarily. And let us not forget they are the ones who write the rules. The players are simply abiding by the rules they set. 

All of this talk about how one would not build a program of one and dones similar to Duke or Kentucky makes me laugh. The reality is only 2 (maybe 3) programs can do this - if Archie had the opportunity to bring in 4 of the top ten players every year he would.  A coach would be dumb not to. It’s like saying ‘I don’t need a nice car’ because you can’t afford one, but the moment you have more money you get a nicer car without a broken A/C and ripped seats.

Lastly, if your child was in a position to make millions of dollars by leaving college early vs  staying in college, risking injury and losing it all; I promise you that decision is not as black and white as some would make it seem.

To those who say these kids need to get an education: why can’t they go back to school and get an education after signing a contract?

To those who say a kid isn’t ready for the NBA or needs to work on a flaw in their game: Does the NBA not have coaches too? Can they not work on their game at the next level?

I’m sorry but the argument that these kids somehow owe the university anything  more than their one year is BS. They are just jumping through the hoops the NBA and NCAA have set up. I know many may disagree, but I sincerely believe that this way of thinking is nothing more than ‘fan entitlement’.

 

 

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15 hours ago, btownqb said:

Ellis, Crawford, and Bassett were no slouches either. 

For sure. But that team doesn't get anywhere near 24-4 without EJ. That dude was and is amazing. But for his injuries over his first several years in the League, he would've been a legit star. People forget the CPIII trade for EJ. Anyway, was just chiming in that EJ largely carried that team, he did, and in the bigger context, it's ridiculous to me to critique, minimize, undercut or otherwise be dismissive of a player because he didn't stay at IU for more than one or two (or three?) years.

So guys like I Thomas, EJ, Cody, Oladipo can't be all time IU greats or "icons" because they were so incredibly FORTUNATE to be able to follow their dream to the, you know, 'next level' of basketball, where every single IU player would like to be.

Isaiah T was able to care for his family, financially, his family needed it, and despite going on to become one of the greatest point guards the NBA has ever seen, he still worked to complete his IU degree. He actually did that in the offseasons. Think about that. Of course he also led the team to a NC. To me though, that's not what matters, in this context. If that team had lost in the Sweet 16 he'd still be the same player, the same person, an IU all time great, and an NBA all time great. So let's see, MJ, for UNC, was part of its NC winning team as a frosh, but lost his junior year and went pro. Golly, I wonder how UNC feels about MJ's legacy. He didn't graduate from UNC, he left a year early -- oh, like Vic.

Cody actually COULD have gone in the first round after his frosh season -- he was in the lottery discussion -- but he returned to IU and helped us, of course tremendously, as a soph. Since going pro he's been all about IU, has done all kinds of things for IU. 

EJ of course went through the hot mess that was Sampson-gate. He was a monumental, incredible player who largely carried us to a 24-4 season and a legit contender for the title before the wheels fell off with the announcement of the NCAA's investigation, etc. What could have been. 

What can NOT be said about Oladipo? He was a flipping Academic All American at the same time he was a NPOY who played a central if not the central part in winning another B1G title for us, AT Michigan. Vic is absolutely everything you'd want in a young man coming to IU. Everything. Fantastic kid, developed from the raw, explosive defensive-first player who was nowhere near anyone's draft board into the #2 pick (should've been #1), a now legit NBA All-Star and face of the Pacers, who continues to be all about IU and does all kinds of things for IU, the basketball team and players. But he left IU a year early, like MJ.

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19 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Bruce, love the GIF and since you're close to the program and watched, I have to ask...what happened?  Granted, IU has definitely played better offense recently, but IU is not known for their offense.  Like Illinois, our defense is usually what keeps IU in games.  I think most of us personally expected UI to throw some nasty defense at us and be amped up for senior night.  You have any insight as to why their defense went so far south last night?

I'm just an alum, not particularly "close". I have no idea what happened. They played a really, really good half of defense against NW then came out in the 2nd half and allowed 49 points to a terrible offense that hadn't been able to score much more than that in an entire game. Part of it is just that style of defense, I'm not a fan of it especially in the Big Ten where most teams tend to take care of the ball pretty well. This kind of sums it up:

 

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