Everything NIT

[AxnJxn]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I don't care how much money you are making you still should not make that decision just because of money.  You should make it if you  like playing college basketball and you are happy in college.  You should make that decision on whether you think you are mature enough to handle the NBA lifestyle.  The NBA money is not going anywhere so if you are happy playing college basketball and enjoy being around your teammates then stay until you think you are actually ready to play in the NBA.

1. The NBA money could be lost if you have a serious injury. That's exactly the point I'm making that you seem to continue to ignore. Do you actually think it's a smart move to play in an NIT game, get injured, and lose millions of dollars, particularly in a situation where you come from a family that is struggling financially? 

2. I don't think you really understand what "ready to play in the NBA" means in this day and age. The NBA doesn't care that much about how you play in college, as long as you aren't a complete disaster - they draft on potential. They certainly aren't going to care how Romeo or whoever else plays in the NIT, and he's ready to play in the NBA right now. Even if he's not a starter, he's going to be playing/practicing against the best players in the world as opposed to Al Durham, Justin Smith, or Devonte Green.

[IowaHoosierFan]

19 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

1. The NBA money could be lost if you have a serious injury. That's exactly the point I'm making that you seem to continue to ignore. Do you actually think it's a smart move to play in an NIT game, get injured, and lose millions of dollars, particularly in a situation where you come from a family that is struggling financially? 

2. I don't think you really understand what "ready to play in the NBA" means in this day and age. The NBA doesn't care that much about how you play in college, as long as you aren't a complete disaster - they draft on potential. They certainly aren't going to care how Romeo or whoever else plays in the NIT, and he's ready to play in the NBA right now. Even if he's not a starter, he's going to be playing/practicing against the best players in the world as opposed to Al Durham, Justin Smith, or Devonte Green.

You're in a losing argument here.  Just let it go.  You are never going to convince him that the player shouldn't play for the love of the game and the university and not for what is best for him.

[IU Scott]

36 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

1. The NBA money could be lost if you have a serious injury. That's exactly the point I'm making that you seem to continue to ignore. Do you actually think it's a smart move to play in an NIT game, get injured, and lose millions of dollars, particularly in a situation where you come from a family that is struggling financially? 

2. I don't think you really understand what "ready to play in the NBA" means in this day and age. The NBA doesn't care that much about how you play in college, as long as you aren't a complete disaster - they draft on potential. They certainly aren't going to care how Romeo or whoever else plays in the NIT, and he's ready to play in the NBA right now. Even if he's not a starter, he's going to be playing/practicing against the best players in the world as opposed to Al Durham, Justin Smith, or Devonte Green.

I would bet it is less than 1% of players who were going to be first round draft picks had career ending injuries in college basketball.  With how surgeries and rehab goes today most injuries are easy to overcome and there are very few career ending injuries.

[IU Scott]

37 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

1. The NBA money could be lost if you have a serious injury. That's exactly the point I'm making that you seem to continue to ignore. Do you actually think it's a smart move to play in an NIT game, get injured, and lose millions of dollars, particularly in a situation where you come from a family that is struggling financially? 

2. I don't think you really understand what "ready to play in the NBA" means in this day and age. The NBA doesn't care that much about how you play in college, as long as you aren't a complete disaster - they draft on potential. They certainly aren't going to care how Romeo or whoever else plays in the NIT, and he's ready to play in the NBA right now. Even if he's not a starter, he's going to be playing/practicing against the best players in the world as opposed to Al Durham, Justin Smith, or Devonte Green.

I also understand completely what they draft on but I am saying a player needs to do what they think is best and not what the majority thinks he should do.  What is funny players used to get criticized for going early where today kids are criticized if they decide to stay in school.

[AxnJxn]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I would bet it is less than 1% of players who were going to be first round draft picks had career ending injuries in college basketball.  With how surgeries and rehab goes today most injuries are easy to overcome and there are very few career ending injuries.

And you're ok that a kid from a family with limited means takes a 1% chance on losing millions of dollars just to play in the NIT?

 

19 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

You're in a losing argument here.  Just let it go.  You are never going to convince him that the player shouldn't play for the love of the game and the university and not for what is best for him.

Appreciate the heads up. It's a respectable discussion, so I don't mind if someone has a differing opinion. Sounds like this road has been traveled before, though, eh?

[FW_Hoosier]

1 minute ago, AxnJxn said:

Appreciate the heads up. It's a respectable discussion, so I don't mind if someone has a differing opinion. Sounds like this road has been traveled before, though, eh?

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

And you're ok that a kid from a family with limited means takes a 1% chance on losing millions of dollars just to play in the NIT?

 

Appreciate the heads up. It's a respectable discussion, so I don't mind if someone has a differing opinion. Sounds like this road has been traveled before, though, eh?

Yes because if it was my son I would recommend him to  do what he wants to do  but if it was up to me he would stay 4 years.  If it was good enough for most of the top players in the history of basketball then it is good enough for my son.  Back in the day the money for rookies contracts was much greater than it is today yet those players stayed 3 to 4 years.  I guess staying 4 years really hurt Duncan and Ewing and the many of the other HOF players who stayed 4 years.

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

It reverts back to the last semester they completed.  If they were in good shape as of then, it doesn't hurt. 

That just seems wrong...hate that rule.  That crap should absolutely affect APR in my opinion.  If they played while not being in class, that should hurt APR.  If they fail to complete the semester they played during, that should hurt APR as well.  Stupid rules like that just make further mockery of the term "student athlete."

[Zlinedavid]

3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

That just seems wrong...hate that rule.  That crap should absolutely affect APR in my opinion.  If they played while not being in class, that should hurt APR.  If they fail to complete the semester they played during, that should hurt APR as well.  Stupid rules like that just make further mockery of the term "student athlete."

So a kid that stays in good academic standing for 5 semesters and decides to leave as a junior to enter the draft should hurt the team's academic performance?

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

So a kid that stays in good academic standing for 5 semesters and decides to leave as a junior to enter the draft should hurt the team's academic performance?

Yes, if he leaves before the semester is over the program should be penalized

[FKIM01]

2 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

So a kid that stays in good academic standing for 5 semesters and decides to leave as a junior to enter the draft should hurt the team's academic performance?

Yes.  Finish the damned semester or don't play ball when the second semester starts.  I'm a believer that if you are playing college ball, you should also be in class (student athlete).  If you want to go five semesters, then leave the university after the first semester and prepare for the draft.  Choose to play in the spring?  You must be in class. Period.

Victor Oladipo not only stayed in class the spring semester of his junior year, he actually graduated.  As it should be.

[Zlinedavid]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Yes, if he leaves before the semester is over the program should be penalized

If a non-athlete student follows the proper procedures for withdrawing from classes mid-semester, should that have a negative impact on their transcript?

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

If a non-athlete student follows the proper procedures for withdrawing from classes mid-semester, should that have a negative impact on their transcript?

Are those students on academic scholarship? because to me if you don't finish the semester then yes they is should have an effect on their transcript.  A player who is on scholarship is paid for the semester they are currently in so if they don't finish that semester and finis classes their should be some effect on the player and program.

[Zlinedavid]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Are those students on academic scholarship? because to me if you don't finish the semester then yes they is should have an effect on their transcript.

Regardless of circumstance?

[FKIM01]

1 minute ago, Zlinedavid said:

If a non-athlete student follows the proper procedures for withdrawing from classes mid-semester, should that have a negative impact on their transcript?

We don't disagree often but we will here.  I'm not talking about penalizing the kid...I'm talking about penalizing the universities who only pretend to care about academics and recruit kids who don't belong in a university setting.

...and again...if you don't want to go to class in the spring, fine...withdraw from school and go prepare for the draft.  I hate the one and done rule because it promotes crap like this...take just enough soft classes in the fall to maintain eligibility and you can play for the entire season.  Seriously...what will a semester of badminton, film and art appreciation classes really do for the student?  Not a damned thing but waste time & university resources in my opinion.  The OADs don't want to be there and it's a mockery to say they are getting an education.  The only thing they are getting educated in is how to game the system.

You want to help these kids in a university setting?  Give them a semester of:

1. How to select an agent
2. How to deal with extended family & groupies (and why family loans and "investments" in family businesses are a bad idea)
3. The time value of money and creating income for life
4. balancing a checkbook
5. reading an investment statement
6. contract law basics
7. How to conduct an interview.
8. Why you won't be able to play basketball forever/planning for life after your playing career is over.

I'll be glad when the one and done rule is gone.

[Zlinedavid]

1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

  The only thing they are getting educated in is how to game the system.

Which is what the Kentucky's of the world are already masters at. 

Put that block in place regarding APRs, and you'll suddenly find a slate of university-approved classes on a "slightly accelerated" schedule that coincidentally end around the beginning of April. 

To keep the integrity of the college game, it'll take the NBA eliminating the age limit to where at least half of the OADs won't even enter college.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

LOL! I wouldn't have drafted him in the NFL draft as well

So Christian Mccafery shouldn’t have been drafted either? Even if I agree with you as a teammate I would never want to not play if my team was playing I’m not going to judge someone else making a financial decision. That’s like saying you should stay at your current job and not bail on your coworkers even if a better job is available. Kid is only going to school to get a career in his field of expertise. I went into business...he is going to school for football/basketball. Once he has his degree in that field and worth drafting why stay back? He has accomplished his college goals of preparing him for his career. Could he earn more if he stayed and developed...maybe...just like I may have earned more with a masters but I chose to leave because it was a trade off that was best for me and my family at the time.

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

So Christian Mccafery shouldn’t have been drafted either? Even if I agree with you as a teammate I would never want to not play if my team was playing I’m not going to judge someone else making a financial decision. That’s like saying you should stay at your current job and not bail on your coworkers even if a better job is available. Kid is only going to school to get a career in his field of expertise. I went into business...he is going to school for football/basketball. Once he has his degree in that field and worth drafting why stay back? He has accomplished his college goals of preparing him for his career. Could he earn more if he stayed and developed...maybe...just like I may have earned more with a masters but I chose to leave because it was a trade off that was best for me and my family at the time.

I guess we will disagree on this because eif you accepted a scholarship that means you play every game on your schedule.  If I were the school I would expect that semester to  paid back since he did not meet his obligation.

[FW_Hoosier]

Elite recruits should have to “pay back” their universities if they withdraw early 😂😂😂

The hypocrisy of that position is just priceless.

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, AxnJxn said:

1. The NBA money could be lost if you have a serious injury. That's exactly the point I'm making that you seem to continue to ignore. Do you actually think it's a smart move to play in an NIT game, get injured, and lose millions of dollars, particularly in a situation where you come from a family that is struggling financially? 

2. I don't think you really understand what "ready to play in the NBA" means in this day and age. The NBA doesn't care that much about how you play in college, as long as you aren't a complete disaster - they draft on potential. They certainly aren't going to care how Romeo or whoever else plays in the NIT, and he's ready to play in the NBA right now. Even if he's not a starter, he's going to be playing/practicing against the best players in the world as opposed to Al Durham, Justin Smith, or Devonte Green.

I think the injury excuse is pretty lame. If a guy wants to quit now because he's ready to go sign some mega endorsement deals that are waiting on the table and begin monetizing his brand, fine. I get that. Might as well strike while the iron is hot. But not playing because of injury doesn't make sense in my opinion. You're just as likely to get injured in a private workout for a team before the draft, working out with your training "guru", or in a pick-up game in LA while you're preparing for the draft, as you are in an NIT game. Basketball players play basketball. They workout. They play in pickup games. 

So unless these guys are shutting down all basketball activities until they sign that first contract, then I don't see why they shouldn't play? 

[FKIM01]

51 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Which is what the Kentucky's of the world are already masters at. 

Put that block in place regarding APRs, and you'll suddenly find a slate of university-approved classes on a "slightly accelerated" schedule that coincidentally end around the beginning of April. 

To keep the integrity of the college game, it'll take the NBA eliminating the age limit to where at least half of the OADs won't even enter college.

Agree...basketball factories will stretch whatever academic rules are there to the limit.  I also agree the NBA discussing elimination of the OAD rule is a step in the right direction and will eliminate many of the pretend students.

Slightly accelerated classes that end in early April would be a step better than no requirement to attend any classes in the spring.  I just get irritated at schools pretending these kids are students when they never step into a classroom during the spring semester.  Sounds like something North Carolina would do.  Under the current rules, the NCAA might as well just create club teams associated with each school and stop pretending these players are students.

[AxnJxn]

31 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think the injury excuse is pretty lame. If a guy wants to quit now because he's ready to go sign some mega endorsement deals that are waiting on the table and begin monetizing his brand, fine. I get that. Might as well strike while the iron is hot. But not playing because of injury doesn't make sense in my opinion. You're just as likely to get injured in a private workout for a team before the draft, working out with your training "guru", or in a pick-up game in LA while you're preparing for the draft, as you are in an NIT game. Basketball players play basketball. They workout. They play in pickup games. 

So unless these guys are shutting down all basketball activities until they sign that first contract, then I don't see why they shouldn't play? 

There's a good reason for those workouts, though - honing your game for the next level,  a pickup game against the best talent in the country, or going through combines, etc. (and there's a growing number of players that don't even do that for fear of injury, especially if they know they're going to be picked in the lottery). There's little use for the NIT with respect to much of anything, especially at a school like IU, where, let's face it, none of us want to be in this tournament. I mean, I think it's nice that Romeo's going to play, but I also don't really see the point of it, unless he's planning on coming back next year and wants to build his rapport with the other guys on the court. But, I'm also mainly talking about guys from low income families, and I have no idea if Romeo's situation is like that, either.

[BGleas]

11 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

There's a good reason for those workouts, though - honing your game for the next level,  a pickup game against the best talent in the country, or going through combines, etc. (and there's a growing number of players that don't even do that for fear of injury, especially if they know they're going to be picked in the lottery). There's little use for the NIT with respect to much of anything, especially at a school like IU, where, let's face it, none of us want to be in this tournament. I mean, I think it's nice that Romeo's going to play, but I also don't really see the point of it, unless he's planning on coming back next year and wants to build his rapport with the other guys on the court. But, I'm also mainly talking about guys from low income families, and I have no idea if Romeo's situation is like that, either.

I just think the fear of injury part is way overblown. If Langford was doing what the kid from Arkansas is doing, basically saying I'm ready to go prep for the draft, hire my agent and start making money immediately, that I completely understand. If Langford's decision is made and he could sign a shoe deal with Adidas tomorrow, then have at it, start getting paid.

I just don't buy the injury part.The injury part could happen anywhere. If he doesn't play in the NIT, I'd bet anything he's in Cook Hall Wednesday playing pickup or going through an intense workout. Could just as easily get hurt then. 

[AxnJxn]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I just think the fear of injury part is way overblown. If Langford was doing what the kid from Arkansas is doing, basically saying I'm ready to go prep for the draft, hire my agent and start making money immediately, that I completely understand. If Langford's decision is made and he could sign a shoe deal with Adidas tomorrow, then have at it, start getting paid.

I just don't buy the injury part.The injury part could happen anywhere. If he doesn't play in the NIT, I'd bet anything he's in Cook Hall Wednesday playing pickup or going through an intense workout. Could just as easily get hurt then. 

I'm not really getting how you can say an injury can happen at any time, and then think it makes sense to play in meaningless games. We just saw Zion come close to a significant injury because of a shoe, and that game actually meant something. If this was an NCAA tournament game, I think that's different, but I'm guessing we'll be lucky to see the stands half full for tomorrow night's game. Playing in this tournament does nothing for Romeo or Gafford's draft status, and the only thing that can happen of significance is negative. 

If you have a winning lottery ticket, do you just stuff it in your pocket because the odds of losing it isn't all that high? How about if you've grown up poor, and you have a chance to take care of everyone in your immediate family for life? There's simply no logic to taking a risk like this.

[IU Scott]

34 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I just think the fear of injury part is way overblown. If Langford was doing what the kid from Arkansas is doing, basically saying I'm ready to go prep for the draft, hire my agent and start making money immediately, that I completely understand. If Langford's decision is made and he could sign a shoe deal with Adidas tomorrow, then have at it, start getting paid.

I just don't buy the injury part.The injury part could happen anywhere. If he doesn't play in the NIT, I'd bet anything he's in Cook Hall Wednesday playing pickup or going through an intense workout. Could just as easily get hurt then. 

There is a football player from Miss. St who tore his ACL in workouts getting ready for the combine and some still think he will be a 1st round draft pick.