Feathery Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, BGleas said: He was not going to be the #1 pick, RJ Barrett was the clear #1 in the class. Prior to Duke, Zion was viewed as an athlete that wasn’t overly skilled. He showed at Duke he was better than that and he built a brand. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have been compensated by Duke or the NCAA. He probably should have been. But, he absolutely, without question, benefitted in a huge way monetarily by the exposure he received at Duke. He built a brand at Duke, he became a phenomenon at Duke. What he gained at Duke almost doesn’t have a value you can put on it. Again, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have been compensated while at Duke. So college helped Zion and it hurt RJ Barrett. He lost money by going to college bc his stock slipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Feathery said: So college helped Zion and it hurt RJ Barrett. He lost money by going to college bc his stock slipped. I would say Zion just leap frogged RJ. Barrett will make his millions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 53 minutes ago, Feathery said: So college helped Zion and it hurt RJ Barrett. He lost money by going to college bc his stock slipped. Not necessarily. It’s about exposure and brand building. These guys make most of their money on endorsements and they get a lot more in endorsement money by exposure they get in college. It’s not like there’s a finite amount of money for these guys. Both can win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Anyone care to throw a number out how much his year at duke would have been worth if he was compensated just 50/50 what he made his owners? Found this. Pelicans are the 2nd least valuable franchise at 1.22 billion. They quick sold an extra 2000 season tickets. Wonder what they will be worth with 4 years gauranteed of Zion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 11 hours ago, NotIThatLives said: IIRC Duke had a $10 million policy on Zion. 10. That is probably comparable to what he made them. Just because this system has been in place for 100 years doesn't mean it's not exploitation. The fans want entertainment. We want Zion. We would have loved to watch Lebron play a year in college. Duke reloads and on to the next one. The machine will keep running because its nationally a billion dollar business that the FBI can't even put a wrench in. Hilarious that your last resort of justification that these guys don't get exploited while execs in Nike, NCAA, Duke, or wherever cash in is calling me a participation trophy fan. How the hell did you conjure that garbage up? Maybe you wanted to see Zion but I couldn't care less if he played in college or not because I watch college basketball for the game and not just for players. I enjoy watching a team like Belmont and Davison as I do watching a Duke or UK because I don't really care how great a player is athletically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Again if these kids are getting exploited then sign me up to be exploited like them. They get to live like kings on the campus and they have everything given to them and have every advantage given to them to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 I think my point is that yes the NCAA made a ton of money off Zion and both the ACC and Duke also made a lot of money off of Zion. Absolutely, no dispute. Is it fair Zion had to assume the risk of not being compensated during that year and potentially getting hurt? Not at all. But with that said, Zion also made a ton of money off the the NCAA and Duke. That’s indisputable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Zion is a generational talent, at least as far as in college. If his floor, imo, is a Charles Barkley, he's still a top 100 player of all time if not higher. That type of talent that only comes around once every 5 to 10 years helps the ncaa immensely. Duke vs ucf was must see tv. Maybe the game of the tournament. Gleas, at least your responses have a rational to them instead of only how you feel about things and how you want them to be or to remain or even go back to. Maybe he would have slide to 2 or 3 and not be in line for 100 million dollar shoe contract out the gate but on the same token we have Ja out of Murray freaking state going 2 or 3. Everyone has a camera now. Anyone can post on YouTube. Sportscenter plays home video highlights. If zion went to serbia, we would have been shown his highlights and we would still know who he is. Obviously ESPN hype machine helped him immensely. Zion/ESPN hype machine made the NBA draft must see tv, even though Ja and Barrett may have the better 12 year career. I am not denying that. I also cant figure out how some justify not allowing these guys to get a piece of the pie by calling it free advertisement, taking up for the ncaa system. Meanwhile I can click over on the fbi/ncaa page and find posts about how corrupt they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 2 hours ago, NotIThatLives said: Zion is a generational talent, at least as far as in college. If his floor, imo, is a Charles Barkley, he's still a top 100 player of all time if not higher. That type of talent that only comes around once every 5 to 10 years helps the ncaa immensely. Duke vs ucf was must see tv. Maybe the game of the tournament. Gleas, at least your responses have a rational to them instead of only how you feel about things and how you want them to be or to remain or even go back to. Maybe he would have slide to 2 or 3 and not be in line for 100 million dollar shoe contract out the gate but on the same token we have Ja out of Murray freaking state going 2 or 3. Everyone has a camera now. Anyone can post on YouTube. Sportscenter plays home video highlights. If zion went to serbia, we would have been shown his highlights and we would still know who he is. Obviously ESPN hype machine helped him immensely. Zion/ESPN hype machine made the NBA draft must see tv, even though Ja and Barrett may have the better 12 year career. I am not denying that. I also cant figure out how some justify not allowing these guys to get a piece of the pie by calling it free advertisement, taking up for the ncaa system. Meanwhile I can click over on the fbi/ncaa page and find posts about how corrupt they are. Zion's floor is not Charles Barkley. Charles Barkley is one of the all-time great players in NBA history. Zion has a ton of potential and has a chance to be in that conversation, or even better, if he works hard, improves and realizes his insane potential, but his floor is something like maybe Anthony Mason. By saying his floor is Charles Barkley, you're saying at his worst he'd be as good as one of the top 5-10 power forwards of all-time. As far as the rest of the convo, Zion getting drafted 2 or 3 if he had been able to come out of high school would not be slipping, that would have been rising last year. You're viewing him only as he is now, which how he's viewed now is largely a credit to his performance at Duke and the media exposure that came with it. Coming out of high school I believe he was projected around 6th or so. At the time he was viewed as a crazy athlete that was probably overweight and didn't have a perimeter game. He was thought sort of a bigger, more athletic, but much less skilled Draymond Green. What he showed at Duke, and what propelled him to being thought of as he is now, is that he does have those perimeter/play-making skills and that his size/weight doesn't deter the perimeter aspect of hims game, it actually makes it better. Also, playing in Serbia and with social media, yes the NBA and the die-hard NBA fans would know who he is, but what makes Zion able to command $100M contracts is that his exposure at Duke made him a household name to the general, casual basketball fan and even beyond. My wife knows who he is. No way in the world she knows Zion if he played in Sebia. My elementary aged kids know him, know way they know him if he played in Serbia. The exposure he received at Duke by the NCAA/ESPN/media hype machine, along with his performance under that spotlight, made him a $100M guy, and he was not that at this time last year. Again, I'm not saying it's right or okay that he didn't get a piece of the pie playing the in the NCAA. But he unequivocally, 100% will benefit monetarily in a HUGE way from playing that one season at Duke and all the branding and exposure that came with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, BGleas said: Zion's floor is not Charles Barkley. Charles Barkley is one of the all-time great players in NBA history. Zion has a ton of potential and has a chance to be in that conversation, or even better, if he works hard, improves and realizes his insane potential, but his floor is something like maybe Anthony Mason. By saying his floor is Charles Barkley, you're saying at his worst he'd be as good as one of the top 5-10 power forwards of all-time. As far as the rest of the convo, Zion getting drafted 2 or 3 if he had been able to come out of high school would not be slipping, that would have been rising last year. You're viewing him only as he is now, which how he's viewed now is largely a credit to his performance at Duke and the media exposure that came with it. Coming out of high school I believe he was projected around 6th or so. At the time he was viewed as a crazy athlete that was probably overweight and didn't have a perimeter game. He was thought sort of a bigger, more athletic, but much less skilled Draymond Green. What he showed at Duke, and what propelled him to being thought of as he is now, is that he does have those perimeter/play-making skills and that his size/weight doesn't deter the perimeter aspect of hims game, it actually makes it better. Also, playing in Serbia and with social media, yes the NBA and the die-hard NBA fans would know who he is, but what makes Zion able to command $100M contracts is that his exposure at Duke made him a household name to the general, casual basketball fan and even beyond. My wife knows who he is. No way in the world she knows Zion if he played in Sebia. My elementary aged kids know him, know way they know him if he played in Serbia. The exposure he received at Duke by the NCAA/ESPN/media hype machine, along with his performance under that spotlight, made him a $100M guy, and he was not that at this time last year. Again, I'm not saying it's right or okay that he didn't get a piece of the pie playing the in the NCAA. But he unequivocally, 100% will benefit monetarily in a HUGE way from playing that one season at Duke and all the branding and exposure that came with it. I guess where I see it different is that I think all players get the piece of the pie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I guess where I see it different is that I think all players get the piece of the pie I know what you are saying, and there is nothing wrong with your line of thinking. I was a full ride college athlete at a small school. I was pampered to the nth degree. Lots of perks for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, rico said: I know what you are saying, and there is nothing wrong with your line of thinking. I was a full ride college athlete at a small school. I was pampered to the nth degree. Lots of perks for sure. so you know that a lot of the money that the NCAA brings in goes to fund sports at the smaller levels. I was listening to Greg Sheehen this spring on the radio and he talked about the NCAA covering a large portion of all the travel cost at the lower levels. I think the problem is that people only look at the power conferences when it comes to college sports but most of the other levels and even smaller D1 programs don't have the money to support sports on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: so you know that a lot of the money that the NCAA brings in goes to fund sports at the smaller levels. I was listening to Greg Sheehen this spring on the radio and he talked about the NCAA covering a large portion of all the travel cost at the lower levels. I think the problem is that people only look at the power conferences when it comes to college sports but most of the other levels and even smaller D1 programs don't have the money to support sports on their own. I put a link here somewhere that talks about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: I guess where I see it different is that I think all players get the piece of the pie I truly understand what you are saying. You have a dog in the fight with your daughter being a scholarshiped athlete. Sports at lower levels would continue to go on if all the one and done went straight to the NBA. That does not change the fact that even a guy like Jordan Hulls and Christian Watford, who became a constant rerun commercial for ESPN after the watshot, made IU, Adidas, coach Crean, ncaa major amounts of money. Did Watford make any money from ESPN showing him 25 times a day for almost a year every single time they ran a college basketball promo? Why should he not be compensated? Help me understand. If every one gets a piece of the trophy, I mean pie as you say, how is that not exploiting Watford? Why is it ok in your mind to take money from revenue generating sports to pay for sports that are in the red? Because that's the way it's always been? I've already agreed Zion got promoted and he benefited so we can stop beating that horse. Still doesn't take away from the fact that he made a bunch of organizations richer this year and he didn't get his pie. No one would even touch the question of how much he would have been worth at just 50/50. Just if Duke was his employer you would have to guess around 15-20 million. Nevermind that he could probably get 25 million in all kinds of marketing gigs. But he's not allowed to. And we are ok with Nike and Adidas profiting from him this year but god forbid they get a kids mom out of the projects. I could care less about non revenue sports getting a piece of the pie. I simply don't agree that it's ok to exploit someone else's talent to make money, while the talent gets none of it, to be redistributed. In sports and in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: so you know that a lot of the money that the NCAA brings in goes to fund sports at the smaller levels. I was listening to Greg Sheehen this spring on the radio and he talked about the NCAA covering a large portion of all the travel cost at the lower levels. I think the problem is that people only look at the power conferences when it comes to college sports but most of the other levels and even smaller D1 programs don't have the money to support sports on their own. And i dont care. If they can't be self sustaining, either fund raise or shut them down. Doesn't make it ok to take others peoples money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: I truly understand what you are saying. You have a dog in the fight with your daughter being a scholarshiped athlete. Sports at lower levels would continue to go on if all the one and done went straight to the NBA. That does not change the fact that even a guy like Jordan Hulls and Christian Watford, who became a constant rerun commercial for ESPN after the watshot, made IU, Adidas, coach Crean, ncaa major amounts of money. Did Watford make any money from ESPN showing him 25 times a day for almost a year every single time they ran a college basketball promo? Why should he not be compensated? Help me understand. If every one gets a piece of the trophy, I mean pie as you say, how is that not exploiting Watford? Why is it ok in your mind to take money from revenue generating sports to pay for sports that are in the red? Because that's the way it's always been? I've already agreed Zion got promoted and he benefited so we can stop beating that horse. Still doesn't take away from the fact that he made a bunch of organizations richer this year and he didn't get his pie. No one would even touch the question of how much he would have been worth at just 50/50. Just if Duke was his employer you would have to guess around 15-20 million. Nevermind that he could probably get 25 million in all kinds of marketing gigs. But he's not allowed to. And we are ok with Nike and Adidas profiting from him this year but god forbid they get a kids mom out of the projects. I could care less about non revenue sports getting a piece of the pie. I simply don't agree that it's ok to exploit someone else's talent to make money, while the talent gets none of it, to be redistributed. In sports and in life. Never said my daughter was a scholarship athlete but is on a full ride due to academics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: I truly understand what you are saying. You have a dog in the fight with your daughter being a scholarshiped athlete. Sports at lower levels would continue to go on if all the one and done went straight to the NBA. That does not change the fact that even a guy like Jordan Hulls and Christian Watford, who became a constant rerun commercial for ESPN after the watshot, made IU, Adidas, coach Crean, ncaa major amounts of money. Did Watford make any money from ESPN showing him 25 times a day for almost a year every single time they ran a college basketball promo? Why should he not be compensated? Help me understand. If every one gets a piece of the trophy, I mean pie as you say, how is that not exploiting Watford? Why is it ok in your mind to take money from revenue generating sports to pay for sports that are in the red? Because that's the way it's always been? I've already agreed Zion got promoted and he benefited so we can stop beating that horse. Still doesn't take away from the fact that he made a bunch of organizations richer this year and he didn't get his pie. No one would even touch the question of how much he would have been worth at just 50/50. Just if Duke was his employer you would have to guess around 15-20 million. Nevermind that he could probably get 25 million in all kinds of marketing gigs. But he's not allowed to. And we are ok with Nike and Adidas profiting from him this year but god forbid they get a kids mom out of the projects. I could care less about non revenue sports getting a piece of the pie. I simply don't agree that it's ok to exploit someone else's talent to make money, while the talent gets none of it, to be redistributed. In sports and in life. I guess where we really disagree is that I don't see anyone getting exploited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: And i dont care. If they can't be self sustaining, either fund raise or shut them down. Doesn't make it ok to take others peoples money. Like I said in another post I guess I should just go to the owners of my company and tell them I should get as much as they do because I do more work on a daily basis. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Just now, IU Scott said: I guess where we really disagree is that I don't see anyone getting exploited No ncaa players are allowed while they are ncaa players to make immediate money off of their ability. However ncaa, universities, shoe companies and every other company benefits from running commercials during this time. It's really a great time to advertise because you don't have to actually pay a famous person to endorse you, they are forced to do it for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Like I said in another post I guess I should just go to the owners of my company and tell them I should get as much as they do because I do more work on a daily basis. LOL! If you aren't getting paid, then yes, you are being exploited by them. But if you are getting paid, by all means, angle for a raise. Merica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: If you aren't getting paid, then yes, you are being exploited by them. But if you are getting paid, by all means, angle for a raise. Merica We will never see eye to eye on this one because I feel the athletes are fairly compensated with over $50,000 a year in cost of attendance and all the other stipends they get. To me the athletes should not get paid more than that and get what they deserve. If they don't like then go another route to further your basketball career because I don't want to change the rules for under 1% of all the college athletes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, IU Scott said: We will never see eye to eye on this one because I feel the athletes are fairly compensated with over $50,000 a year in cost of attendance and all the other stipends they get. To me the athletes should not get paid more than that and get what they deserve. If they don't like then go another route to further your basketball career because I don't want to change the rules for under 1% of all the college athletes As I said Scott, I know exactly where you are coming from. And it is a very complex topic that has so many variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: We will never see eye to eye on this one because I feel the athletes are fairly compensated with over $50,000 a year in cost of attendance and all the other stipends they get. To me the athletes should not get paid more than that and get what they deserve. If they don't like then go another route to further your basketball career because I don't want to change the rules for under 1% of all the college athletes For a non revenue generating sport, that's a hell of a deal. Agreed. And we will end it at that because this whole argument has been summed up with your most recent quote, "I don't want to change." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: For a non revenue generating sport, that's a hell of a deal. Agreed. And we will end it at that because this whole argument has been summed up with your most recent quote, "I don't want to change." Can I ask you how would you distribute the money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: For a non revenue generating sport, that's a hell of a deal. Agreed. And we will end it at that because this whole argument has been summed up with your most recent quote, "I don't want to change." It is not that I don't want change it is I don't think there needs to be a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.