It's time to be like UNC/Nova/MSU

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, PoHoosier said:

To clear up the financial mess that is the NCAA, I would love to see a 3rd party report.  How much revenue is generated be college athletics and where does that money go?  Probably not possible, not to mention, once done, the capitolistic nature would then be to have the top money generators garnering top athletes.  Not too different than now.  A can of worms would be opened as a larger sense of entitlement would be fostered.  If it we're done, at least it would be somewhat more transparent.

Well a lot of the money goes to pay for all the other sports in all divisions of college athletics.  I love the commercial where they say that only 1% of all college athletes go on to be professional athlete and to me there is no need to change all of your rules for 1% of the athletes.  I think people ted to only look at the top of college basketball and football and forget that those are in the minority when it comes to all of college sports..

[PoHoosier]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Well a lot of the money goes to pay for all the other sports in all divisions of college athletics.  I love the commercial where they say that only 1% of all college athletes go on to be professional athlete and to me there is no need to change all of your rules for 1% of the athletes.  I think people ted to only look at the top of college basketball and football and forget that those are in the minority when it comes to all of college sports..

You will get no argument from me.  My hope would be to give credence to one side and to quiet the other.  Unfortunately, we both know it wouldn't work that way.  A report would likely cause as much divide as ever.

It would be nice to eliminate NCAA waste and see the reason amateur sports as non-profit is truly to benefit the masses - ie: non-money sports.  I believe that to be largely the case.  However, as the FBI probe lingers on without the NCAA acting, I have to wonder how corrupt is the NCAA?  Leading to the next insinuation, How much does the NCAA benefit/profit/exploit from hiding behind the whole amateur institution?

Back to the OP.  Sure, be like Nova, and not so much like MSU (abuse) or UNC (frauds).  Integrity still matters.

[Feathery]

12 hours ago, IU Scott said:

It is against he rules to pay players so yes it would be a lack of integrity to pay them.  Also they are already fairly compensated sot there is no need to pa them anymore than they already get.  They get over 25.000 just in cost of attendance to go with all the enmities that athletes get from training to the medical and all the free meals they get.  Also they get about an additional 1200.00 a month for living expenses and another 1000.00 so tell me how many college students.  Also don't forget all the free advertising these top players get when every game is on TV which they would not get if the did not play college basketball.  Also nobody is making these players go to college and live in such an impoverished conditions so if they don't like it go over seas or go to the Gleague.  Leave the college game to the actual student athlete which wants to be there and not cater to entitled athletes who they think are bigger than the game.

And yet the Big Ten set record revenue. The cost of the scholarship isn’t costing the school a dime. It’s just a dollar amount they place on its value. They make much more off these kids than a scholarships. But they are going to give Jim Delaney a $20 million as a retirement gift? Wtf. 

As for paying players. I’d like to see the rule changed. However, within the rules, there are ways to pay players and it be legal. So no loss of integrity. 

Edit: for reference the Big Ten had revenue of $759 million last year. That’s bc of football and basketball. 

[Steubenhoosier]

4 hours ago, Feathery said:

And yet the Big Ten set record revenue. The cost of the scholarship isn’t costing the school a dime. It’s just a dollar amount they place on its value. They make much more off these kids than a scholarships. But they are going to give Jim Delaney a $20 million as a retirement gift? Wtf. 

As for paying players. I’d like to see the rule changed. However, within the rules, there are ways to pay players and it be legal. So no loss of integrity. 

Edit: for reference the Big Ten had revenue of $759 million last year. That’s bc of football and basketball. 

I would encourage some of you that purport that the student athletes should be paid, to listen to Greg McElroy on ESPNU radio, if you have access to satellite radio. With recent, first-hand experience on the matter, he regularly comments that Div 1 athletes on scholarship for football and basketball have a pretty cush life. Between all that is paid for, the monthly stipends they receive, access to elite training facilities and medical care, and the way their academic loads are structured, he paints a picture that suggests that these athletes' college experience is much different than the average student. He admits that he comes from wealth and didn't need any further help, but for those kids that do, Pell Grants provide additional funds that don't have to be repaid. 

I get the arguments that the institutions and the coaches are making out like bandits while the athletes are the product. I am in favor of kids being able to make money off their likenesses, as long as that process is monitored and regulated. But I don't buy at all the argument that scholarship athletes in the major sports struggle and have no resources. 

[rico]

17 hours ago, PoHoosier said:

To clear up the financial mess that is the NCAA, I would love to see a 3rd party report.  How much revenue is generated be college athletics and where does that money go?  Probably not possible, not to mention, once done, the capitolistic nature would then be to have the top money generators garnering top athletes.  Not too different than now.  A can of worms would be opened as a larger sense of entitlement would be fostered.  If it we're done, at least it would be somewhat more transparent.

This is a NCAA report that pertains to basketball...if you believe them.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go

[IU Scott]

36 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I would encourage some of you that purport that the student athletes should be paid, to listen to Greg McElroy on ESPNU radio, if you have access to satellite radio. With recent, first-hand experience on the matter, he regularly comments that Div 1 athletes on scholarship for football and basketball have a pretty cush life. Between all that is paid for, the monthly stipends they receive, access to elite training facilities and medical care, and the way their academic loads are structured, he paints a picture that suggests that these athletes' college experience is much different than the average student. He admits that he comes from wealth and didn't need any further help, but for those kids that do, Pell Grants provide additional funds that don't have to be repaid. 

I get the arguments that the institutions and the coaches are making out like bandits while the athletes are the product. I am in favor of kids being able to make money off their likenesses, as long as that process is monitored and regulated. But I don't buy at all the argument that scholarship athletes in the major sports struggle and have no resources. 

I know that athletes are different than regular students but like I have said many times that my daughter is on a full ride scholarship to IU.  it covers the total cost of attendance which is around $25,000 a year.  She also gets $5500.00 a year from FASFA because I am a single father without any help from her mother so they base that on your families income.  After her freshman year she lived in apartments so she declined the housing and meal plans.  Everything that would have went to dorms and meals goes directly to my daughters account and it is enough for her to live off for the year.  She receives a big check each semester and she usually pays at least 6 months rent with each check and still haves plenty of money to live off of the semester as well.

[NotIThatLives]

18 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know that athletes are different than regular students but like I have said many times that my daughter is on a full ride scholarship to IU.  it covers the total cost of attendance which is around $25,000 a year.  She also gets $5500.00 a year from FASFA because I am a single father without any help from her mother so they base that on your families income.  After her freshman year she lived in apartments so she declined the housing and meal plans.  Everything that would have went to dorms and meals goes directly to my daughters account and it is enough for her to live off for the year.  She receives a big check each semester and she usually pays at least 6 months rent with each check and still haves plenty of money to live off of the semester as well.

Who do you think generated the revenue for that to happen?  All while the schools, the NCAA, the TV companies, sponsorship raked in millions.  It's actually exploitation.  I'll give you that these athletes stick with the NCAA voluntarily.  with the football players don't really have the option to go to some minor league and work their way up.  

[IU Scott]

Just now, NotIThatLives said:

Who do you think generated the revenue for that to happen?  All while the schools, the NCAA, the TV companies, sponsorship raked in millions.  It's actually exploitation.  I'll give you that these athletes stick with the NCAA voluntarily.  with the football players don't really have the option to go to some minor league and work their way up.  

Again they support more than just two sports and with all the title 9 you would have to pay everyone.  If you did this then most schools will have to drop most of the other sports just to pay the football and basketball players.  Also I would say a lot of the regular students do free internships during college in their specific major so college players are pretty much doing an internship for the NBA.  I also don't see how they exploit them at all because it has been shown all the perks they get as college athletes and they do get paid with scholarship plus another $2500.00 a month.

[NotIThatLives]

22 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Again they support more than just two sports and with all the title 9 you would have to pay everyone.  If you did this then most schools will have to drop most of the other sports just to pay the football and basketball players.  Also I would say a lot of the regular students do free internships during college in their specific major so college players are pretty much doing an internship for the NBA.  I also don't see how they exploit them at all because it has been shown all the perks they get as college athletes and they do get paid with scholarship plus another $2500.00 a month.

Who's they?  you said "they support."  You're trying to tell me you don't think Zion Williamson was exploited by Nike Duke NCAA every single marketing firm that place an ad all year long with ESPN during Duke games?  You are in denial if you say no.  Not only will I just say respectfully agree to disagree but I will respectfully say your flat out wrong.  

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Who's they?  you said "they support."  You're trying to tell me you don't think Zion Williamson was exploited by Nike Duke NCAA every single marketing firm that place an ad all year long with ESPN during Duke games?  You are in denial if you say no.  Not only will I just say respectfully agree to disagree but I will respectfully say your flat out wrong.  

No I call it free advertising for Zion which eh wouldn't  have gotten if he was not playing major college basketball.  If this is getting exploited then sign me up to be exploited because they have a great life being a college athlete.  Like I have said nobody is making Zion go to college so if they don't like it then go play in the G-league in front of 500 fans instead of 15,000.  Also the majority of college fans root for the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back of it so it doesn't matter who is on your team.  it is funny you see 75,000 people every year at the final four no matter who is playing and the last time I checked none of those high profile players even got  to the final four.

 

When I say they support it is all the other sports in college sports and not just D1 but at all levels so most of the money goes to those sports.  They pay for the cost to run those programs as well as all other cost such as travel for these teams.

[Feathery]

19 hours ago, IU Scott said:

It is against he rules to pay players so yes it would be a lack of integrity to pay them.  Also they are already fairly compensated sot there is no need to pa them anymore than they already get.  They get over 25.000 just in cost of attendance to go with all the enmities that athletes get from training to the medical and all the free meals they get.  Also they get about an additional 1200.00 a month for living expenses and another 1000.00 so tell me how many college students.  Also don't forget all the free advertising these top players get when every game is on TV which they would not get if the did not play college basketball.  Also nobody is making these players go to college and live in such an impoverished conditions so if they don't like it go over seas or go to the Gleague.  Leave the college game to the actual student athlete which wants to be there and not cater to entitled athletes who they think are bigger than the game.

 Actually its not against the rules if it’s gone about the correct way. No a coach can’t give a player cash. A shoe company can pay the parent, who runs an AAU team. See Duke players parents who filed bankruptcy buy 600,00k house. See Langford’s dad, who’s AAU team was sponsored by Adidas. All perfectly legal by the NCAA, and US law. 

Why do you think Duke Keeps getting these top players? They have found the loopholes that allows them/shoe companies to get money to the families or handlers of the players. Where it’s legal under the NCAA rules. The people getting the money can file it on their taxes and it’s legal under US law. 

As far as keeping college to the student athletes. That model went out the window decades ago. The step in the right direction is to at least allow student athletes to make money off their likeness. 

[BGleas]

39 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Who's they?  you said "they support."  You're trying to tell me you don't think Zion Williamson was exploited by Nike Duke NCAA every single marketing firm that place an ad all year long with ESPN during Duke games?  You are in denial if you say no.  Not only will I just say respectfully agree to disagree but I will respectfully say your flat out wrong.  

I'm not saying there isn't an element of Zion being exploited by the system, of course there is. But it is also true that Zion benefited greatly from his one year at Duke. If Zion had gone straight to the NBA he would not have been the #1 pick and he would not be an instant $100 million shoe deal/Gatorade type guy. While going to college puts people like Zion in a risky position (injuries, etc.), there is also no denying that Zion made himself hundreds of millions of dollars by playing one year at Duke. 

[FKIM01]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I'm not saying there isn't an element of Zion being exploited by the system, of course there is. But it is also true that Zion benefited greatly from his one year at Duke. If Zion had gone straight to the NBA he would not have been the #1 pick and he would not be an instant $100 million shoe deal/Gatorade type guy. While going to college puts people like Zion in a risky position (injuries, etc.), there is also no denying that Zion made himself hundreds of millions of dollars by playing one year at Duke. 

Absolutely.  If anything, there is mutual exploitation.

[NotIThatLives]

6 hours ago, BGleas said:

I'm not saying there isn't an element of Zion being exploited by the system, of course there is. But it is also true that Zion benefited greatly from his one year at Duke. If Zion had gone straight to the NBA he would not have been the #1 pick and he would not be an instant $100 million shoe deal/Gatorade type guy. While going to college puts people like Zion in a risky position (injuries, etc.), there is also no denying that Zion made himself hundreds of millions of dollars by playing one year at Duke. 

If Zion is truly a generational player , which I think his minimum floor is a Charles Barkley, then he will be making that money no matter where he's at. ESPN would have been waiting for his highlights in Serbia.  

[NotIThatLives]

7 hours ago, IU Scott said:

 

When I say they support it is all the other sports in college sports and not just D1 but at all levels so most of the money goes to those sports.  They pay for the cost to run those programs as well as all other cost such as travel for these teams.

So the money that Zion generated gets redistributed to these non-revenue programs and that's not exploitation?  Even if you left the universities and the the NCAA out of it the shoe companies in all the sponsors and marketing that goes on during the games is still making huge money ESPN's making huge money.  An argument can be made that ESPN is exploiting him

[NotIThatLives]

Zion is taking on 100% of the risk and for one year Duke NCAA ESPN Nike and every single other sponsor that gets ran on ESPN is making money off of Zion. if he was to get killed in a car wreck Zion and his family doesn't make make anything out of that one year of work.  Whether it's free advertising and deferred payments is besides the point.  He made people millions and he paid for other students schooling.  It's a crazy system.  If it wasn't already so established,  no one in their right mind would agree to this farce.  

[Steubenhoosier]

3 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Zion is taking on 100% of the risk and for one year Duke NCAA ESPN Nike and every single other sponsor that gets ran on ESPN is making money off of Zion. if he was to get killed in a car wreck Zion and his family doesn't make make anything out of that one year of work.  Whether it's free advertising and deferred payments is besides the point.  He made people millions and he paid for other students schooling.  It's a crazy system.  If it wasn't already so established,  no one in their right mind would agree to this farce.  

Zion had advisers who would have made certain there were insurance policies in place for just the circumstances you mention. The risk was really on the insurance companies. 

[IU Scott]

18 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Zion is taking on 100% of the risk and for one year Duke NCAA ESPN Nike and every single other sponsor that gets ran on ESPN is making money off of Zion. if he was to get killed in a car wreck Zion and his family doesn't make make anything out of that one year of work.  Whether it's free advertising and deferred payments is besides the point.  He made people millions and he paid for other students schooling.  It's a crazy system.  If it wasn't already so established,  no one in their right mind would agree to this farce.  

Most of the top athletes take out insurance policies in case of a career ending injury.  Also there have been players playing for these teams for 100 years and the fans keep coming back because college fans don't care who is on the team.  Again college fans root for the name on the front of the jersey and not the name on the back f the jersey.  if it was all about the stars you would not see 75,000 at the final four even when these stars are not there.  Life is not fair and I guess you are the kind of fans that like participation trophies so everyone is even in life.

I guess I should go to the owners of my company and demand I make the same amount as the since I probably do a lot more of the work than they do.  Wonder how that will end up on my part.

[NotIThatLives]

1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Zion had advisers who would have made certain there were insurance policies in place for just the circumstances you mention. The risk was really on the insurance companies. 

 

49 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Most of the top athletes take out insurance policies in case of a career ending injury.  Also there have been players playing for these teams for 100 years and the fans keep coming back because college fans don't care who is on the team.  Again college fans root for the name on the front of the jersey and not the name on the back f the jersey.  if it was all about the stars you would not see 75,000 at the final four even when these stars are not there.  Life is not fair and I guess you are the kind of fans that like participation trophies so everyone is even in life.

I guess I should go to the owners of my company and demand I make the same amount as the since I probably do a lot more of the work than they do.  Wonder how that will end up on my part.

IIRC Duke had a $10 million policy on Zion.  10.  That is probably comparable to what he made them.  Just because this system has been in place for 100 years doesn't mean it's not exploitation.  The fans want entertainment.  We want Zion.  We would have loved to watch Lebron play a year in college.  Duke reloads and on to the next one.  The machine will keep running because its nationally a billion dollar business that the FBI can't even put a wrench in.  

Hilarious that your last resort of justification that these guys don't get exploited while execs in Nike, NCAA, Duke, or wherever cash in is calling me a participation trophy fan.  How the hell did you conjure that garbage up?  

[Feathery]

53 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Most of the top athletes take out insurance policies in case of a career ending injury.  Also there have been players playing for these teams for 100 years and the fans keep coming back because college fans don't care who is on the team.  Again college fans root for the name on the front of the jersey and not the name on the back f the jersey.  if it was all about the stars you would not see 75,000 at the final four even when these stars are not there.  Life is not fair and I guess you are the kind of fans that like participation trophies so everyone is even in life.

I guess I should go to the owners of my company and demand I make the same amount as the since I probably do a lot more of the work than they do.  Wonder how that will end up on my part.

Your right people still show up. It’s why the presidents don’t care that schools cheat. If the presidents cared, the NCAA would do something. The NCAA answers to the presidents of the universities making money off ppl showing up. So the rules are afraid bc they can’t be enforced. You simply have to deny and have a compliance office find the loopholes. Look at Coach k, the guy has become the best ever by knowing how to exploit the system and stay within the rules. People hear oh  player got paid and thinks it’s dirty. Not how it works. 

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

If Zion is truly a generational player , which I think his minimum floor is a Charles Barkley, then he will be making that money no matter where he's at. ESPN would have been waiting for his highlights in Serbia.  

Zion would not have been the #1 pick if he was able to come out last year and he didn’t have the brand built yet to command $100 Million from Nike. He absolutely benefitted financially in a huge way by playing at Duke. He literally made hundreds of millions by playing at Duke, especially given that he’s now going to New Orleans. 

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Zion would not have been the #1 pick if he was able to come out last year and he didn’t have the brand built yet to command $100 Million from Nike. He absolutely benefited financially in a huge way by playing at Duke. He literally made hundreds of millions by playing at Duke, especially given that he’s now going to New Orleans. 

Not sure I agree on the #1 pick thing but either way.  How much money do you think he was worth to all these entities in a scenario where he was paid what he was worth?  Let's play it like the NBA agreement 50 50 split.  "Owners/player"  Keep in mind, Scott has laid out how it's worth about $50k.  Future marketing not included.  Straight up, 1 year of college value.  

 

[rico]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Zion would not have been the #1 pick if he was able to come out last year and he didn’t have the brand built yet to command $100 Million from Nike. He absolutely benefitted financially in a huge way by playing at Duke. He literally made hundreds of millions by playing at Duke, especially given that he’s now going to New Orleans. 

Zion is the epitome of why the NBA has the OAD rule right now.

[BGleas]

18 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Not sure I agree on the #1 pick thing but either way.  How much money do you think he was worth to all these entities in a scenario where he was paid what he was worth?  Let's play it like the NBA agreement 50 50 split.  "Owners/player"  Keep in mind, Scott has laid out how it's worth about $50k.  Future marketing not included.  Straight up, 1 year of college value.  

 

He was not going to be the #1 pick, RJ Barrett was the clear #1 in the class. Prior to Duke, Zion was viewed as an athlete that wasn’t overly skilled. He showed at Duke he was better than that and he built a brand. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have been compensated by Duke or the NCAA. He probably should have been. But, he absolutely, without question, benefitted in a huge way monetarily by the exposure he received at Duke. 

He built a brand at Duke, he became a phenomenon at Duke. What he gained at Duke almost doesn’t have a value you can put on it. Again, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have been compensated while at Duke. 

[rico]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

He was not going to be the #1 pick, RJ Barrett was the clear #1 in the class. Prior to Duke, Zion was viewed as an athlete that wasn’t overly skilled. He showed at Duke he was better than that and he built a brand. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have been compensated by Duke or the NCAA. He probably should have been. But, he absolutely, without question, benefitted in a huge way monetarily by the exposure he received at Duke. 

He built a brand at Duke, he became a phenomenon at Duke. What he gained at Duke almost doesn’t have a value you can put on it. Again, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have been compensated while at Duke. 

Agree...and ad another caveat.  What if Zion would have went to Clemson, as was projected?