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KoB2011

Gordon vs. Langford

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4 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

No doubt. Armon Bassett, Jordan Crawford, DJ White, Jamarcus Ellis, DeAndre Thomas would punish this team

Yep, the first 5 plus EJ would punish them on the court, then DeAndre would punish the post-game buffet. 

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6 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Yep, the first 5 plus EJ would punish them on the court, then DeAndre would punish the post-game buffet. 

Especially after the post-game “celebration”

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These two have 3 things in common in my view. 1)Both had hurt shooting wrists the whole season they were here and was never their true selves because of it. Hell Romeo was in a cast all of Christmas break.

2)Both played on underachieving teams at IU.

3) I dont follow EJ and won't follow Romeo if one and done.

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15 minutes ago, Indykev said:

These two have 3 things in common in my view. 1)Both had hurt shooting wrists the whole season they were here and was never their true selves because of it. Hell Romeo was in a cast all of Christmas break.

2)Both played on underachieving teams at IU.

3) I dont follow EJ and won't follow Romeo if one and done.

Have always felt there’s more to Romeo’s wrist injury. Reminds me of when the Pacers drafted Damon and proceeded to surgically repair both of his knees

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EJ was a consistent high level producer.  Romeo has only shown occasional flashes, so far.  Romeo is a fantastic young man and I am grateful he chose IU.  Maybe I had unrealistic expectations.  To me, an NBA first round pick doesn’t get single digits in big games, nor does he get schooled by the other teams role players. Call me crazy

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3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Just my take, I think people's view of Romeo's impact gets colored by his demeanor, somewhat similar to OG.

Romeo does not often demand the ball, his scoring is deceptively smooth somewhat like a Tracy McGrady. He isn't fire and brimstone like T Bryant, not an emotionally inspiring kind of player like a Vic, and at times he is unselfish to a fault, which is kind of like OG both in demeanor and in game approach. Another season would probably develop more leadership-type attributes, but the kid led the team in scoring and for the most part did it efficiently. He's a very fluid scorer. And OG ended up just fine, I'm sure he will as well, regardless of his choice.

But those intangibles matter, especially in a guy that's your best player. Often times they're the difference between good and great. Not so much the demeanor, but demanding the ball in big spots, finding ways to make impact plays in big spots. Making big plays when it matters most and forcing your will on a game. I understand Langford is just a freshmen, but that's something I didn't really see from him this season. 

Again, I think he's a fantastic player and from all accounts an even better person. He had a really good season individually, and the selfish side of me hopes he comes back for another year. But when compared to other guys, I just never felt like, "this team we're playing has no shot against us because we have Romeo Langford!". I loved his numbers, outside of the shooting, but I rarely 'felt' them in the game, it was like they just sort of happened and the box score looked nice, but I didn't remember much of it. 

This isn't some major criticism of Langford, it's just an area that I think he needs work on and will be a difference in how great he ends up, and compared to some other guys (Gordon, Zeller, Bryant, etc.) I don't think he had the same impact as they did. 

Edited by BGleas

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The recurring theme / answer I see to posts and questions is one word: passivity.  I'm with many, not trying to bash him, he's a phenomenal player.  He had maybe 2 games that were memorable and game-winning performances.  The drive to the rack vs MSU and a game earlier in the non-con where he took over with Morgan on the bench.  At some point he will go from someone will win this to I am going to win this.

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59 minutes ago, BGleas said:

But those intangibles matter, especially in a guy that's your best player. Often times they're the difference between good and great. Not so much the demeanor, but demanding the ball in big spots, finding ways to make impact plays in big spots. Making big plays when it matters most and forcing your will on a game. I understand Langford is just a freshmen, but that's something I didn't really see from him this season. 

Again, I think he's a fantastic player and from all accounts an even better person. He had a really good season individually, and the selfish side of me hopes he comes back for another year. But when compared to other guys, I just never felt like, "this team we're playing has no shot against us because we have Romeo Langford!". I loved his numbers, outside of the shooting, but I rarely 'felt' them in the game, it was like they just sort of happened and the box score looked nice, but I didn't remember much of it. 

This isn't some major criticism of Langford, it's just an area that I think he needs work on and will be a difference in how great he ends up, and compared to some other guys (Gordon, Zeller, Bryant, etc.) I don't think he had the same impact as they did. 

I hear you Gleas, but did you ever think "this team has no shot against us because we have OG!" 

And Romeo's numbers include 35% or so on three in the last 10 games or so. His outside shooting is clearly improving. 

I don't really understand your thinking on "feeling" Romeo's scoring, or that it "just sort of happened." He scored the way he did despite multiple teams doing everything they could to stop him from scoring.  He had multiple games where he was dominant. Unfortunately we had that awful collapse after starting 12-2. Unfortunately the team cratered, and then bounced back too late. But when a frosh scores 17-plus a game and generally does it efficiently in  a very, very tough B1G, that reflects what he can do. On impact overall, I'd agree he didn't seem to have the impact guys like Gordon and Zeller had (not so sure about Bryant), but he by the same token had a bigger impact than a frosh Oladipo had, and his supporting cast was much weaker than Gordon's, etc.

For me, he's clearly an elite scorer who can thrive in the right situation in the NBA. He didn't carry us into the NCAA, I would agree Gordon was a bigger impact player at the same stage, but can't just ignore that he impacted the game more than Vic did as a frosh, that he scored largely at will in multiple games in a really tough B1G while getting double-teamed, etc. He's elite, however you stack him up.

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I don't recall Gordon being a good defender and Romeo's rebounding is definitely better. Eric definitely had more impact offesively.   Both were hindered by injury and team dysfunction.  I think Romeo will ultimately be a better pro.

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5 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I hear you Gleas, but did you ever think "this team has no shot against us because we have OG!" 

And Romeo's numbers include 35% or so on three in the last 10 games or so. His outside shooting is clearly improving. 

I don't really understand your thinking on "feeling" Romeo's scoring, or that it "just sort of happened." He scored the way he did despite multiple teams doing everything they could to stop him from scoring.  He had multiple games where he was dominant. Unfortunately we had that awful collapse after starting 12-2. Unfortunately the team cratered, and then bounced back too late. But when a frosh scores 17-plus a game and generally does it efficiently in  a very, very tough B1G, that reflects what he can do. On impact overall, I'd agree he didn't seem to have the impact guys like Gordon and Zeller had (not so sure about Bryant), but he by the same token had a bigger impact than a frosh Oladipo had, and his supporting cast was much weaker than Gordon's, etc.

For me, he's clearly an elite scorer who can thrive in the right situation in the NBA. He didn't carry us into the NCAA, I would agree Gordon was a bigger impact player at the same stage, but can't just ignore that he impacted the game more than Vic did as a frosh, that he scored largely at will in multiple games in a really tough B1G while getting double-teamed, etc. He's elite, however you stack him up.

If the comparison is OG, OG is clearly not on Gordon's level in college. That's kind of the point, no? 

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

I don't recall Gordon being a good defender and Romeo's rebounding is definitely better. Eric definitely had more impact offesively.   Both were hindered by injury and team dysfunction.  I think Romeo will ultimately be a better pro.

Maybe, maybe not on the pro point. Eric has been derailed by injuries but was a budding All-Star before all that. Hard to compare. 

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1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

If the comparison is OG, OG is clearly not on Gordon's level in college. That's kind of the point, no? 

No, the discussion there was the difference between a good player and a great player, talking about demanding the ball, etc., sort of a passivity idea. Look at OG and for that matter Vic as frosh. There’s no question EJ had a bigger frosh season, but my discussion with Gleas was about his perception of intangibles. Remains to be seen whether Romeo can be a great next level player, but I take a different on a player’s perceived persona or demeanor or apparent passive nature. My opinion, Romeo can be a great player as he develops in the right system/team.

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5 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

No, the discussion there was the difference between a good player and a great player, talking about demanding the ball, etc., sort of a passivity idea. Look at OG and for that matter Vic as frosh. There’s no question EJ had a bigger frosh season, but my discussion with Gleas was about his perception of intangibles. Remains to be seen whether Romeo can be a great next level player, but I take a different on a player’s perceived persona or demeanor or apparent passive nature. My opinion, Romeo can be a great player as he develops in the right system/team.

Maybe I misunderstood @BGleas but I took him talking about Romeo's demeanor and lack of dominating the game specifically in relation to Gordon as a freshman and part of why Gordon was better. Of course you can be a good player (OG) and of course that trait can develop later (Vic), but you do want your best player to be a guy that can say, "give me the ball and I'm going to score" when you need a bucket. 

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Gordon’s demeanor was very similar to Romeos and was up until he joined the Rockets.  Now he whines just like all the other players.  Gordon was by far the better player, he led the team in steals too at one point in time during his season.

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This is a good one.

Player A: 30.0 mpg, 15.7 ppg, 1.5 apg, 5.3 rpg, 0.1 bpg, 0.6 spg, 1.6 TOs per game

Player B: 34.1 mpg, 16.5 ppg, 2.3 apg, 5.4 rpg, 0.8 bpg, 0.8 spg, 2.1 TOs per game

Who’s who?

Edited by FW_Hoosier

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

A- James Blackmon

B- Romeo

You must’ve recently looked this up like I did, lol.  Freshman James Blackmon, to be specific.

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Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

You must’ve recently looked this up like I did, lol.  Freshman James Blackmon, to be specific.

They showed the stats last night on the game for the top freshman scorers in IU history

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No shade at Langford, hope he miraculously returns, as a matter of fact, but this one is EJ. Hands down. Truly a dominating player. Based on his skill set and just explosiveness, I project Langford will likely struggle to produce in the NBA at the level Gordon has managed.

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1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said:

You must’ve recently looked this up like I did, lol.  Freshman James Blackmon, to be specific.

Yep.  I knew B was Romeo.  For some reason, the 5.4 boards stuck in my head. 

And those are scarily similar stat lines.  How'd their shooting percentage compare?

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2 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Yep.  I knew B was Romeo.  For some reason, the 5.4 boards stuck in my head. 

And those are scarily similar stat lines.  How'd their shooting percentage compare?

This was the interesting part to me.

JBJ averaged 5.4/12.8 from the field (42.0%), 3.0/6.7 from two (45.0%), and 2.3/6.0 from three (38.7%).

Romeo averaged 5.5/12.3 from the field (44.8%), 4.5/8.4 from two (53.0%), and 1.1/3.9 from three (27.2%)

So they basically took the same number of shots per game and averaged very similar percentages from the field, but scored in opposite ways.  Romeo had an 8.0% higher average on 1.7 more two-point attempts per game, and JBJ had an 11.5% higher average on 2.1 more three-point attempts per game.

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6 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

This was the interesting part to me.

JBJ averaged 5.4/12.8 from the field (42.0%), 3.0/6.7 from two (45.0%), and 2.3/6.0 from three (38.7%).

Romeo averaged 5.5/12.3 from the field (44.8%), 4.5/8.4 from two (53.0%), and 1.1/3.9 from three (27.2%)

So they basically took the same number of shots per game and averaged very similar percentages from the field, but scored in opposite ways.  Romeo had an 8.0% higher average on 1.7 more two-point attempts per game, and JBJ had an 11.5% higher average on 2.1 more three-point attempts per game.

That's actually exactly what I expected.  It matches their style of play.  Romeo is more of a slasher, JBJ is more of a shooter. 

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