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Arkansas Postgame Thread


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5 hours ago, dgambill said:

It’s fine I’m done...the kid played a poor game but If he didn’t play against st Francis we wouldn’t have even been in rd 2. Sure he played poorly...and sure he probably pouted on the bench but he was out there playing hard. I can critic his poor play all day long but to call for the kid to leave the program....if only some of our fans would...wanting Archie to sit someone is one thing...wanting a kid to leave the program that hasn’t done anything wrong...that’s just wrong in my eyes but hell who am I. I hope the kid redoubles his efforts and comes back and leads us next year and makes every single ungrateful fan eat their words.

I couldn't agree more. People need to stop jumping on & off the bandwagon. These are our IU boys. Support, criticize their play, but NEVER attack the kids. We are suppose to be the adults. 

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2 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

(not directed at you, Scott...been writing this for awhile...)

Again, I'll express my distaste at seeing IU fans wishing current players would transfer.  I don't see anything positive that can come from such public proclamations.  Archie doesn't care what you think about a particular player and ultimately, the decision for a player to leave is either mutual, player-driven or coach-driven.  I can't think of a single example where a coach was influenced by a fan forum to get rid of a player, although I'm sure some players have left at least partially due to overly negative fanbases. (see "wish granted" - Devonte Green)

Keep in mind, not long ago, a bunch of you were wishing Devonte Green would transfer...the same Devonte who scored a double double today and was critical in propelling IU past Arkansas.  Not the first game he's been critical to an IU victory either.  I'll remind you that Devonte is a junior and Justin Smith is a sophomore.  Many of you are too young to remember him , but Knight was absolutely at his wits end with Landon Turner too.  Then a switch flipped in Turner and he became a beast for IU before his unfortunate car accident.

Verdell Jones and Christian Watford were complained about regularly until they both became important parts of very good teams.  There's a reason that Archie wants to get older and stay older.  If fans are going to give up on every young player who doesn't perform exactly as us fans feel they should, IU will never get older and stay older as Archie wants his team to do.  It's fine to be disappointed with a player's performance.  Odds are, the player and coach are at least as disappointed as you are.  I just get so frustrated when I see our fanbase again and again publicly wish young players gone.  It's damaging to the psyches of the current players under attack and it's a big turnoff to potential recruits reading how fans treat the players at the school he is considering.  It doesn't matter if "every school has fans like that"...these recruits are seeing YOUR school badmouth players.  They may or may not see that at other schools, or at least not nearly as much, particularly if competitor schools are doing relatively well at the moment. 

I'm rambling, so I'm going to stop with this word of advice...please stop and consider how damaging your words here can be...and stop telling yourself it doesn't hurt anyone.  That's simply not true.

Very well said!

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5 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

(not directed at you, Scott...been writing this for awhile...)

Again, I'll express my distaste at seeing IU fans wishing current players would transfer.  I don't see anything positive that can come from such public proclamations.  Archie doesn't care what you think about a particular player and ultimately, the decision for a player to leave is either mutual, player-driven or coach-driven.  I can't think of a single example where a coach was influenced by a fan forum to get rid of a player, although I'm sure some players have left at least partially due to overly negative fanbases. (see "wish granted" - Devonte Green)

Keep in mind, not long ago, a bunch of you were wishing Devonte Green would transfer...the same Devonte who scored a double double today and was critical in propelling IU past Arkansas.  Not the first game he's been critical to an IU victory either.  I'll remind you that Devonte is a junior and Justin Smith is a sophomore.  Many of you are too young to remember him , but Knight was absolutely at his wits end with Landon Turner too.  Then a switch flipped in Turner and he became a beast for IU before his unfortunate car accident.

Verdell Jones and Christian Watford were complained about regularly until they both became important parts of very good teams.  There's a reason that Archie wants to get older and stay older.  If fans are going to give up on every young player who doesn't perform exactly as us fans feel they should, IU will never get older and stay older as Archie wants his team to do.  It's fine to be disappointed with a player's performance.  Odds are, the player and coach are at least as disappointed as you are.  I just get so frustrated when I see our fanbase again and again publicly wish young players gone.  It's damaging to the psyches of the current players under attack and it's a big turnoff to potential recruits reading how fans treat the players at the school he is considering.  It doesn't matter if "every school has fans like that"...these recruits are seeing YOUR school badmouth players.  They may or may not see that at other schools, or at least not nearly as much, particularly if competitor schools are doing relatively well at the moment. 

I'm rambling, so I'm going to stop with this word of advice...please stop and consider how damaging your words here can be...and stop telling yourself it doesn't hurt anyone.  That's simply not true.

Great, thoughtful post.

we’ve said it before but it’s worth adding here, players, parents, and recruits read the boards. It’s good to keep that in mind. 

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9 hours ago, Shooter said:

Forgetting the effort discussion for a minute. Smith is just not a good offensive player. One play in the first half summed it up - passed up a wide open three, tried to straight line drive to the basket, ran right into some dude's chest for a charge. That wasn't lack of effort. It was lack of shooting / ballhandling / playmaking skill. Not giving up on him by any means, his career is not even half over. He really has to get better this offseason though.

On the positive side, Green was really good again today. Maybe he is the starting 2 next year? He's been pretty impressive playing alongside RP lately, and both are plus defenders.

The perimeter defense in the second half was outstanding. Saw that Ark didn't make a basket in the last 7 minutes.

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15 hours ago, dgambill said:

It’s fine I’m done...the kid played a poor game but If he didn’t play against st Francis we wouldn’t have even been in rd 2. Sure he played poorly...and sure he probably pouted on the bench but he was out there playing hard. I can critic his poor play all day long but to call for the kid to leave the program....if only some of our fans would...wanting Archie to sit someone is one thing...wanting a kid to leave the program that hasn’t done anything wrong...that’s just wrong in my eyes but hell who am I. I hope the kid redoubles his efforts and comes back and leads us next year and makes every single ungrateful fan eat their words.

I must have watched a different game then, because I didn't see Justin playing hard at all.

There have been times people on this forum have cited "lack of effort" by various members of the team (most notably Devonte Green), and to be honest, I didn't see it. Boneheaded plays? Sure, but I always thought the effort was there.

Archie must have seen it the same way, because Justin would do something, and immediately head to the sideline. He knew Archie was going to pull him. That kind of "lack of effort" is easy to spot, even for a fan.

It's sad because he's cheating the fans (minimal), he's cheating his teammates (major) and, most importantly, he's cheating himself.

If he doesn't want to be out there, then he shouldn't waste his time and ours.

I'll say one more thing...From what I've seen this year, if De'ron Davis had one half of the athleticism Justin Smith had, he'd be Big 10 player of the year next year. He wants it.

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It’s not about body language. 

I don’t think it’s fair for fans to talk about transfers because they don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. And it’s not fair to criticize character for the same reason  

That said, it is well within our right to be critical of how a player is playing. Justin still takes those open 3’s, and assuming Archie has told him not to take them, that is unacceptable.  He doesn’t get back on defense after a poor play. That is unacceptable. The fact that he continues to do both is unacceptable. 

Both of these instances are not a matter of basketball IQ. They are effort based and/or stubbornness. This is what I get upset about. 

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2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

I must have watched a different game then, because I didn't see Justin playing hard at all.

There have been times people on this forum have cited "lack of effort" by various members of the team (most notably Devonte Green), and to be honest, I didn't see it. Boneheaded plays? Sure, but I always thought the effort was there.

Archie must have seen it the same way, because Justin would do something, and immediately head to the sideline. He knew Archie was going to pull him. That kind of "lack of effort" is easy to spot, even for a fan.

It's sad because he's cheating the fans (minimal), he's cheating his teammates (major) and, most importantly, he's cheating himself.

If he doesn't want to be out there, then he shouldn't waste his time and ours.

I'll say one more thing...From what I've seen this year, if De'ron Davis had one half of the athleticism Justin Smith had, he'd be Big 10 player of the year next year. He wants it.

I agree 100%. He is a mid major prospect at best and one of the laziest players I have ever seen. 

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22 minutes ago, jefftheref said:

I agree 100%. He is a mid major prospect at best and one of the laziest players I have ever seen. 

Disagree on the mid major prospect.  I think he can be lazy.  I think part of that probably comes from the game having come easily to him in HS.  He is a high end athlete and was probably able to get by on that raw talent with little effort.  I was not a D1 athlete but I was smart enough that academics came super easy to me in HS.  I never learned the study ethic in HS because of that and it made my transition a little tough in college.  I got A's with little effort, I had friends who got A's and B's but had to work a little harder in HS.  They transitioned to the college workload better than I did.  I think that is where Smith is at from an athletic standpoint.

The Michigan St. game is what Smith is capable of, that is pretty high end talent.  He just needs to find the inner motivation.  If we had 80% of the Justin we saw against MSU every game next year, it would go a very long way to getting us into the tournament.  The past few games I have been getting more comfortable with the idea of RP and Green as our starting backcourt next year.  Smith figuring things out would go a long way toward making me more comfortable with our frontcourt next year.

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11 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

His talent level is well beyond mid level. Other parts are debateable, the talent is there.

I agree.  He has shown much more than other athletic recruits (Hanner) we've had lately.  He strikes me as a youngster that is unhappy and having a tough time getting focused.  Maybe he does't love the game or his current surroundings.  I'll trust the staff to figure out whats best for him and the team.

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1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

It’s not about body language. 

I don’t think it’s fair for fans to talk about transfers because they don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. And it’s not fair to criticize character for the same reason  

That said, it is well within our right to be critical of how a player is playing. Justin still takes those open 3’s, and assuming Archie has told him not to take them, that is unacceptable.  He doesn’t get back on defense after a poor play. That is unacceptable. The fact that he continues to do both is unacceptable. 

Both of these instances are not a matter of basketball IQ. They are effort based and/or stubbornness. This is what I get upset about. 

That's fair. Whatever is going on in Justin's head. I hope he's able to work it out and reach his potential. Just based on what I observed yesterday,  I think something is eating at him and it's affecting his play.

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20 hours ago, dgambill said:

Uh no he can’t...not yet at least. He can’t do what Justin did against Michigan St. nor the stretch of MSU, Wisconsin, Illinois where he avg 17pts and almost 6 Rebs on 50% shooting and really good defense. When Justin is locked in he is a good player...he just is terribly inconsistent. Heck he had 10 and 9 in the last game...Race played some hard nosed minutes and gave some great effort in his limited minutes but he has shown zero offensive ability....so no Race can not give us what Justin can.

When Race has as many games under his belt you will be saying Justin WHO?

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Without naming any names, I’d think Bradley would be a nice destination for anybody who ends up being transferred out. Brian Wardle is a rising coach and is in the midst of a nice turnaround there.  

I would not be shocked to see Wardle in the B1G in good time.  Illinois or Northwestern might make sense for him eventually.  

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41 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

So I was at TopGolf with friends on Saturday during the game. We were watching but I wasn't dialed in as normal. Can someone catch me up on JS stuff? I saw a few bad plays but I guess i didn't see or missed some of this other stuff. Was it bad or same as always?

i thought it was very tough to watch him.

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1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

So I was at TopGolf with friends on Saturday during the game. We were watching but I wasn't dialed in as normal. Can someone catch me up on JS stuff? I saw a few bad plays but I guess i didn't see or missed some of this other stuff. Was it bad or same as always?

I posted his stat line in the game thread and at the time it was something like 0 points, 2 rebounds, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls. The fouls were blatant charges. Defender had pitched a tent. A few at the game said his attitude wasn't to great. He sat most of the second half as Archie saw he wasn't helping any.

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7 hours ago, Indykev said:

When Race has as many games under his belt you will be saying Justin WHO?

While I hope you are correct.....there is little to no evidence of that.  What am I missing that makes you say that?  He is a high energy guy....but I have not seen BIG10 skill level in any way.

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53 minutes ago, mookied39 said:

While I hope you are correct.....there is little to no evidence of that.  What am I missing that makes you say that?  He is a high energy guy....but I have not seen BIG10 skill level in any way.

He is a fros who has played what 4 games. give him time. go back and watch aau or high school film.

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