Recruiting talent or fit

[13th&Jackson]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Izzo said he had to try to do what was best for them and trying to fit that with what was best for the team made it difficult.

Yet another example of the challenges Izzo has had to overcome 

[INDenizen]

One the main takeaways from that article is that these teams started their current team build 3-4 years ago and are just now reaping the benefits. They recruited the right guys for their system, added key pieces from jc or transfers along the way to fill in some gaps.

[Bowhunter]

I know this year’s final four is a little under welming talent wise but normally there are some big name number 1 seeds with plenty of 5 stars on the roster. One 5 star stud on a team that has chemistry issues didn’t work this season. I’d rather have a mixture of both talent and Seniors. This is Indiana and it shouldn’t  be hard to get elite players to come here. This isn’t Butler or Dayton.

[Fiveoutofsix]

It amazed me how TT made MSU look unathletic at times.  Back to this question, recruit length, speed and IQ.  Have a few lock down shooters and game over.  IU should be able to bring in more polished talent, if you will, in this area.  However; the right JUCOS help and grad transfers help.

To build an roster takes time.  In one way Crean was able to build his own roster because of the situation.  

As Sampson once said your only as good as your point and big.  A second year Rob is a great start.  Watching recruiting IU didnt think Rob was ready for the minutes he ended up getting.  After a few misses (Garland, etc) Rob had to grow up fast.  This will help next year.

[T-Free20]

Anyone see this on Twitter?

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, T-Free20 said:

Anyone see this on Twitter?

Not only their rankings, but 3 5th year seniors. They have 3 guys starting that were 2014 recruits. Get old, stay old, and also fantastic work on the grad transfer market (Owens and Mooney). Oliase and Owens are 23 and Mooney is 22.  

[Zlinedavid]

1 hour ago, T-Free20 said:

Anyone see this on Twitter?

Just a wild guess, but this is probably the exception, not the rule.  In other words, just because it isn't impossible doesn't mean that the odds are that good. 

I would say the recipe for consistent success looks very similar to the starters in the 2016 title game.  Nova and UNC both started 4 4* players and 1 5* player. Neither 5* was a OAD. Nova started 2 seniors, 2 juniors and a freshman.  UNC started 2 seniors, a junior and 2 sophomores.    Nova's starters were ranked between 22-79 in their class, UNC's starters were ranked between 9-58.

An entire roster of OADs isn't likely to win a title, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't go after highly ranked kids.  The key is that mid-range, the low 5*/high 4* kids where there's a decent chance of them staying 3/4 years. 

[FKIM01]

Tech is literally men playing against boys.  I think that model would be tough to sustain, but good for Beard making it happen.

[Zlinedavid]

5 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Tech is literally men playing against boys.  I think that model would be tough to sustain, but good for Beard making it happen.

All the more credit to him for even getting them to the title game. 

Although Virginia isn't exactly just out of diapers.  They do have one freshman starter, but the rest are a RS Jr, 2 Jrs and a RS Sophomore.

[BGleas]

47 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Just a wild guess, but this is probably the exception, not the rule.  In other words, just because it isn't impossible doesn't mean that the odds are that good. 

I would say the recipe for consistent success looks very similar to the starters in the 2016 title game.  Nova and UNC both started 4 4* players and 1 5* player. Neither 5* was a OAD. Nova started 2 seniors, 2 juniors and a freshman.  UNC started 2 seniors, a junior and 2 sophomores.    Nova's starters were ranked between 22-79 in their class, UNC's starters were ranked between 9-58.

An entire roster of OADs isn't likely to win a title, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't go after highly ranked kids.  The key is that mid-range, the low 5*/high 4* kids where there's a decent chance of them staying 3/4 years. 

Agree. I'd love for Indiana, in terms of recruiting, to be similar to UNC, MSU and Villanova. Indiana's problem the last 10 years or so seem to be the 4*/22-79 guys. We tend to only get 1 of those a class, instead of 2-3. 

IU tends to go 5*, 4*, then 2-3 guys 130+. I'd prefer 5*, 2-3 guys 30-80, 1 130+

[Zlinedavid]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree. I'd love for Indiana, in terms of recruiting, to be similar to UNC, MSU and Villanova. Indiana's problem the last 10 years or so seem to be the 4*/22-79 guys. We tend to only get 1 of those a class, instead of 2-3. 

IU tends to go 5*, 4*, then 2-3 guys 130+. I'd prefer 5*, 2-3 guys 30-80, 1 130+

I'd even take it a little looser: 2 guys 50 and up, followed by coach's discretion.  I'll take all the Oladipos, Sheeheys, OGs, Phinisees, etc a coach can find at 130+. Just make sure they're your "gamble" and not the cornerstone of a class. 

[IU878176]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Agree. I'd love for Indiana, in terms of recruiting, to be similar to UNC, MSU and Villanova. Indiana's problem the last 10 years or so seem to be the 4*/22-79 guys. We tend to only get 1 of those a class, instead of 2-3. 

IU tends to go 5*, 4*, then 2-3 guys 130+. I'd prefer 5*, 2-3 guys 30-80, 1 130+

Some of the UNC model has been due to “one and dones” turning down Roy rather than being a strategic decision.

Roy has gone after plenty of one and dones including Romeo, Brooks, Zion, Ingram, Giles etc but his batting average of landing them is not great.

[Zlinedavid]

14 hours ago, IU878176 said:

Some of the UNC model has been due to “one and dones” turning down Roy rather than being a strategic decision.

Roy has gone after plenty of one and dones including Romeo, Brooks, Zion, Ingram, Giles etc but his batting average of landing them is not great.

We on the outside will never know, but I wonder which was his true priority?

being that they're North Carolina, may as well toss your name in the hat for as many big names as possible, but keep core priority on the 30-75 range.

[dgambill]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 8:04 AM, Zlinedavid said:

We on the outside will never know, but I wonder which was his true priority?

being that they're North Carolina, may as well toss your name in the hat for as many big names as possible, but keep core priority on the 30-75 range.

I think it has more to do with the fact that he tends to bring his freshman along slowly with minutes typically and the fact that he has had a lot of upper classman that have stayed over the years. Some because they weren't ready for the draft and some because they were around that early second rd talent that going might not have benefited. I think Roy has a system..if you play good enough to go so be it...but he isn't altering his system etc to showcase you. We've seen Duke and UK do the most changing to their systems from year to year based on those one or two players with the elite talent and play to their strengths. I don't think NC is shying away from the top recruits...but I think Roy does have fewer holes to fill each year because of how he has built his classes...he is pretty good about not losing a majority of his players early so he only needs maybe 1 5* and then build the trenches with high 4*s.

[Billingsley99]

plunger