Wichita State post game thread

[Proud2BAHoosier]

27 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Everyone have a nice summer. See you in the fall, well unless something happens.

Right there with ya Kev.....

[dbmhoosier]

4 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

I will continue to repeat...we need shooter, we have needed shooters all season long, because we don't have consistent shooters inside and out, is usually followed by losses.  Simple.....better shooters = more wins, landing Keion & Co. NCAA tourney bid and blame not on Archie...

We need shooters 100% agreed.  I also agree that it wasn't fair to blame our poor shooting on him last season or maybe even this season.  But it will be 100% on him next season if we don't have a few rain makers on our roster.  He's had more than enough time to go get some.

[Long Duk Dong]

1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said:

It's just a perfect fit for both parties.  He's a very smart hard nosed no nonsense coach who IU fans expect in their coach.  And Indiana produces those gym rat kids like Leal and Gollaway in spades.  He would work wonders with players like that.  Just a perfect fit for both parties.  If IU is willing to pay $7-8M year they can still land him.

I think your last sentence just made it move a little.

[IUDan93]

If we don't make the tourney next year than I would say it might be time to take this program out behind the shed and beat it to death with a shovel.  There is no way that CAM is so pedestrian as a coach that he can't get a team to the tourney in three years.  It would point to the invisible hand of IU administration limiting the product of this program.  I have complained about being tired of the only real hope, excitement and enthusiasm for IU basketball being in the off-season while struggling with frustration throughout the in-season.  At least I can't complain about this anymore, because now the off-season is not providing the false hope.  With all this, I suspect that we will be better next year and that CAM will build something better, but it really sucks when fans don't know for sure if we are going to be good.  25 years should be enough of a punishment for whatever bad karma came from RMK or from his ousting.  Sorry for all the great posters on this site who bleed IU and feel light-headed from blood loss.  

[Artesian_86]

1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said:

We need shooters 100% agreed.  I also agree that it wasn't fair to blame our poor shooting on him last season or maybe even this season.  But it will be 100% on him next season if we don't have a few rain makers on our roster.  He's had more than enough time to go get some.

True....but, this discussion is about THIS season. Mark my word, ....next season will be a sight for sore eyes!! We will ne turning some heads for the good next year. JMHO..

[CTrojan88]

Just now, Artesian_86 said:

I will continue to repeat...we need shooter, we have needed shooters all season long, because we don't have consistent shooters inside and out, is usually followed by losses.  Simple.....better shooters = more wins, landing Keion & Co. NCAA tourney bid and blame not on Archie...

Archie does the recruiting and doesn’t have a proven shooter coming in next year...how is that anyone else’s fault but his?  After watching every game the last two years, I am not convinced that Archie’s offense could get a good shooter open anyway....

[IU Scott]

I have not doe the research but it seemed like AL was shooting better early on until he dislocated his finger at MSU.  Also I think Al would be a great player if he cold come off the bench for a really good team and not have to start.

[Zuckerkorn]

4 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

If we don't make the tourney next year than I would say it might be time to take this program out behind the shed and beat it to death with a shovel.  There is no way that CAM is so pedestrian as a coach that he can't get a team to the tourney in three years.  It would point to the invisible hand of IU administration limiting the product of this program.  I have complained about being tired of the only real hope, excitement and enthusiasm for IU basketball being in the off-season while struggling with frustration throughout the in-season.  At least I can't complain about this anymore, because now the off-season is not providing the false hope.  With all this, I suspect that we will be better next year and that CAM will build something better, but it really sucks when fans don't know for sure if we are going to be good.  25 years should be enough of a punishment for whatever bad karma came from RMK or from his ousting.  Sorry for all the great posters on this site who bleed IU and feel light-headed from blood loss.  

There have been posts about the administration tying Archie's hands when he got here, some of it because of our API.  I know this is wildly speculative, but because of his good GPA, might Archie be being forced to play and keep happy Justin Smith?

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, CTrojan88 said:

Archie does the recruiting and doesn’t have a proven shooter coming in next year...how is that anyone else’s fault but his?  After watching every game the last two years, I am not convinced that Archie’s offense could get a good shooter open anyway....

I have watched Franklin a few times and he looked goo shooting and shot around 40 percent from 3.  I also think we will see a couple of transfers so we will still be looking for more players.

[Snozzwangers_und_covfefe]

31 minutes ago, JWoolsey said:

Justin is a dope who does nothing well.

Careful, talking about the players like this gets you a week ban...oops, that's only if it's about Romeo. 

[Fiveoutofsix]

5 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

There have been posts about the administration tying Archie's hands when he got here, some of it because of our API.  I know this is wildly speculative, but because of his good GPA, might Archie be being forced to play and keep happy Justin Smith?

Today, what other option did he have to guard their kids on the perimeter?  Do you see what you can get out of Andersen?  Thompson  is not ready and the staff knew he isnt ready to guard their action.  Smith gives you the best option.

Justin oozes with potential.  Here is to a big jump, staying on campus, and getting better.  He needs to learn how to go on to the next play and lower his arc.  He could be a high impact Jr or Senior. 

[Artesian_86]

3 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

Archie does the recruiting and doesn’t have a proven shooter coming in next year...how is that anyone else’s fault but his?  After watching every game the last two years, I am not convinced that Archie’s offense could get a good shooter open anyway....

I will respectfully end this back and forth with this.....Of the true Archie recruited players that are shooters, Romeo ( enough said) and Jerome Hunter ( injured all season, was said that he could have been better than Romeo)...nothing left in the cupboard.

 

[CTrojan88]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I have watched Franklin a few times and he looked goo shooting and shot around 40 percent from 3.  I also think we will see a couple of transfers so we will still be looking for more players.

I watched him too and saw someone who can get hot like some of the players we have now....but certainly not a dead eye like we need.  In terms of transfers, Fitzner was supposed to be that guy this year and we all know how that worked out.  We’ll see but with the shooting issues from the floor and from the line that we have seen the last two years, I would have thought that Archie would have had this definitively addressed by now.

[IUDan93]

6 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

There have been posts about the administration tying Archie's hands when he got here, some of it because of our API.  I know this is wildly speculative, but because of his good GPA, might Archie be being forced to play and keep happy Justin Smith?

Could be. 

[hoosier_exotics]

19 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

We need shooters 100% agreed.  I also agree that it wasn't fair to blame our poor shooting on him last season or maybe even this season.  But it will be 100% on him next season if we don't have a few rain makers on our roster.  He's had more than enough time to go get some.

I agree with this.  When the shots dropped this year, we were tough to beat.   When reality dropped, we are very much one dimensional and easy to defend

[Zlinedavid]

3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

It's just a perfect fit for both parties.  He's a very smart hard nosed no nonsense coach who IU fans expect in their coach.  And Indiana produces those gym rat kids like Leal and Gollaway in spades.  He would work wonders with players like that.  Just a perfect fit for both parties.  If IU is willing to pay $7-8M year they can still land him.

Actually, I've had a few interesting conversations with WSU fans over the last couple of days. Shockernet is a decent community, BTW. Very similar to HSN.

A few tidbits I picked up:

 

A) Marshall has never "begged" anyone to hire him. Has he listened to offers? Sure. But hasn't been even halfway close to leaving WSU.

B) He's never once balked at having an extremely large buyout included in his contract. A buyout typically only applied at "destination" jobs. This year, it's $15M. The next highest in the AAC, $2M. Not the action of a guy that plans on going anywhere.

C) He doesn't have a blank check, but isn't far from it. WSU has a standing offer to match or exceed any "reasonable" offer.

D) In addition to his salary, there are other benefits he has in his contract (likely Koch funded). All team flights are chartered. He has nearly open access to a Koch private jet, so long as it isn't abused.

E) He has a very businesslike approach, and overall is a reasonable, low maintenance person. You'll never see a clause in his contract that says he must be one of the X highest paid coaches. He knows the financial situation he's in, and will use it to his benefit, but isn't going to abuse it.

F) Mark Few is a fair comparison. He's happy in Wichita. He's near the top of his profession in salary and has built a nationally competitive program. That said, even WSU fans won't say he's as entrenched as Few. There is one job that would tempt him the most, when it opens up eventually: Duke. Primarily because, he's a native of that area,and if he made a move, it'd be the last move of his career.

 

So the idea of a big name walking in with a big check....nowhere near as certain as you'd like it to be. Could he leave? Sure. But he's in no hurry and has minimal desire to do so.

[CrimsonV]

1 hour ago, hoosier_exotics said:

I dont get the love fest for Marshall at all.. his kids hit shots, ours didnt.  If he was anywhere near the coach some of you say, he wouldnt be at WS for 12+ yrs.  And in the NIT in year 12 as a coach of the same program...   good coach, definitely not great. Where he is coaching tells the truth 

Uh he makes $3.5M per year.  That’s more than Archie.  He lost his sophomore star last year to the 1st round of the draft.  That was unexpected and set them back this year.

[JWoolsey]

38 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Actually, I've had a few interesting conversations with WSU fans over the last couple of days. Shockernet is a decent community, BTW. Very similar to HSN.

A few tidbits I picked up:

 

A) Marshall has never "begged" anyone to hire him. Has he listened to offers? Sure. But hasn't been even halfway close to leaving WSU.

B) He's never once balked at having an extremely large buyout included in his contract. A buyout typically only applied at "destination" jobs. This year, it's $15M. The next highest in the AAC, $2M. Not the action of a guy that plans on going anywhere.

C) He doesn't have a blank check, but isn't far from it. WSU has a standing offer to match or exceed any "reasonable" offer.

D) In addition to his salary, there are other benefits he has in his contract (likely Koch funded). All team flights are chartered. He has nearly open access to a Koch private jet, so long as it isn't abused.

E) He has a very businesslike approach, and overall is a reasonable, low maintenance person. You'll never see a clause in his contract that says he must be one of the X highest paid coaches. He knows the financial situation he's in, and will use it to his benefit, but isn't going to abuse it.

F) Mark Few is a fair comparison. He's happy in Wichita. He's near the top of his profession in salary and has built a nationally competitive program. That said, even WSU fans won't say he's as entrenched as Few. There is one job that would tempt him the most, when it opens up eventually: Duke. Primarily because, he's a native of that area,and if he made a move, it'd be the last move of his career.

 

So the idea of a big name walking in with a big check....nowhere near as certain as you'd like it to be. Could he leave? Sure. But he's in no hurry and has minimal desire to do so.

Loved the post. Very informative. Folks talk about how great Marshall, Izzo, Few, and Bennett are but what I see is about 100 seasonal trials and 1 title. Throw in Huggins and Bo Ryan if you want to pump that up to 150. Throw in Beilein and we're reaching 180. Throw in Sean Miller and we're nearing 200. 

I thought we were about titles and and winning things? You need to be unique and on top of the game. You've got to beat 300 teams here. You've basically got to win 4 50/50 games which is only 6%! You'll get that chance how often? We've had that chance once in 25 years.  

I don't think you get there playing basic basketball. Playing safe basketball. That's the whole game plan with this staff. Play tough, play smart, and play efficient. Not elite talent, not an elite system. 

Greg Marshall is the same as the old guard. He'd be a terrible hire for Duke. 

I hate being misunderstood which I've done here relentlessly but these icon's haven't really won as much as you'd think have they? 

Food for thought I guess. I just want to go for the win. Play for the title and not regular season wins with 'historic' coaches. GO FOR IT! BEAT THE GAME!!! WIN IT ALL! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zlinedavid]

2 minutes ago, JWoolsey said:

I don't think you get there playing basic basketball. Playing safe basketball. That's the whole game plan with this staff. Play tough, play smart, and play efficient. Not elite talent, not an elite system. 

Greg Marshall is the same as the old guard. He'd be a terrible hire for Duke.

I'd actually disagree with a lot of the above two statements.  Basketball is a basic game.  Don't make things overly complicated.  Play basic but nuanced.  Don't have to be straight out of the textbook, but you don't have to reinvent the wheel either.

And whoever succeeds K at Duke will have a tall order, but I think Marshall would be a great candidate.  Smart at Texas is the perfect counter-example.  "Young", "innovative", "different".  Sounds like what you're describing above.  Hasn't exactly worked so far.  Because it's basic, Marshall's style is portable.  It would work well anywhere. 

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Why would he come back?

Why did Cody Zeller come back?  He was projected higher than Romeo.

[Long Duk Dong]

21 minutes ago, CrimsonV said:

Uh he makes $3.5M per year.  That’s more than Archie.  He lost his sophomore star last year to the 1st round of the draft.  That was unexpected and set them back this year.

Archie was a lazy and cheap hire by Glass. Glass needs to go. As does the president.

Witchita State pays their coach more than Indiana. That is embarrassing and pathetic. I'm ashamed to be a Hoosier.

Indiana's entire athletic department is pathetic. 

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, southsidehoosier said:

If only Al could hit any of those open 3’s....

Uhhhhhh...Al was 3-6 from distance.

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, CTrojan88 said:

Archie is on the same level as Crean.  I have seen nothing in his two years to make me think differently...continuing to play Smith when he obviously would rather be somewhere else has baffled me...very little Race, no Jake, no Cliff, no Fitzner tonight....i don’t get it and I don’t think Archie does either.  Next year is shaping up to be even worse.....

Relax, man...have a valium.

[southsidehoosier]

Just now, FKIM01 said:

Uhhhhhh...Al was 3-6 from distance.

As I said earlier he missed wide open shots. Why is that unrealistic? He also missed wide open shots against Arkansas.

[Zlinedavid]

5 minutes ago, Long Duk Dong said:

I'm ashamed to be a Hoosier.

We're ashamed you're a Hoosier too. 

Now, in all your infinite wisdom, Monsieur Dong, who would not have been a "lazy and cheap hire"?